Waiting to be paid

[gabesdad]

Afternoon fellow umpires.  First year NJSIAA umpire and there are two towns that are jerking me around regarding pay.  Coming close to 5 weeks and still no pay.  Assigner said this is normal, which I strongly disagree.  How long should I wait before telling the assigner to unassign me from all games from these two districts?  Many thanks.

[wolfe_man]

The assignor would know better than most, I'd trust him.   If you aren't willing to wait, then don't take those games going forward. 

Around here, I've never had to wait more than 2-3 weeks, but I know some may take longer in other states.  Most of mine this year, using Arbiter Pay, are paying in under a week!

[Richvee]

Some schools in Jersey take a while to pay. Some are notorious late payers, others pay the first of the month, others are on zebra pay and you need to make sure your on file with each individual school that uses it. If you’re expecting a check directly from a school, first see if your partner got paid yet. If he did, then an email to the AD’s office is in order. Don’t  bother your assignors with getting paid unless you run into a roadblock reaching out  to the school yourself. 15 years doing Jersey  high school and maybe twice, ( on a second or third email to the AD) did I ever get the assignor involved by CC’ing him on the follow up email.  Keep good records. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

What does the contract say? When are they required to pay you? Absent that...

What does your assigner TELL you regarding when you are paid? When is your association supposed to pay you?

If a league is delayed in paying you? Yeah...tell them you are NOT working another game with them until they pay you what they owe and then do NOT work another game for them until they are paid up. It's not personal. You're not passively-aggressively "holding anyone hostage" or "disrupting youth baseball" or any of the other countless BS things we are told by those who owe us. This is business. YOU did a job for them. THEY owe you money. Until they make you whole, you're working elsewhere...

Now, if they come back to you hat in hand with an apology and want to ahhhhhh...you know? "Work something out"? A little...payment-type plan, perhaps? Maybe you discuss new terms with them or maybe not. As always, what we permit, we promote. If you allow them to re-negotiate an existing agreement, you are suddenly putting ALL future re-negotiations on the table. So, yeah...one time exception...sure. Let's not make a habit of this. [straightens nonexistent necktie...] 

~Dawg

[Kevin_K]

5 hours ago, gabesdad said:

First year NJSIAA umpire ....... consider this before moving forward with anything; it would serve you best not to be labeled as "that guy" in your rookie campaign...and there are two towns that are jerking me around regarding pay.  Coming close to 5 weeks and still no pay.  Assigner said this is normal, which I strongly disagree.... if it's your first year what are you basing this upon? You may not like it, but your assigner has experience beyond yours and this may be the normal for those school districts....  How long should I wait before telling the assigner to unassign me from all games from these two districts?  If you go this route, you may find yourself relieved of all your HS assignments...Many thanks.

For those not in NJ, school districts are primarily not county wide schools. Most HS teams are a small region - say four towns - or are one town only. The schools range in size from 400 students to over 5,000 students and play other teams based on size and geographic area.

Our new friend will find that urban districts tend to take longer to make payments, but it is rare to have to make multiple inquiries with most districts. Some districts mail checks while others use the less than user friendly system of Zebrapay that @Richvee mentioned. That system releases payments every other Friday and if the cutoff was missed by the school, you're going to have to wait at least two more weeks. That's the system the state chose for all its sports assigning and officials related business. Most people do not like it, but there is nothing any of us can really do to change it. 

I have never seen any contract among the various leagues and umpire associations regarding HS ball in NJ. Associations have nothing to do with assigning or payments. There is some negotiation with assigners and leagues regarding the amount of fees for officials in all sports, not just baseball. In most businesses, 30 days is not outrageous for accounts receivable. 

My advice? Lighten up Francis

 

[JonnyCat]

5 weeks and still no payment!? How about F*#K that SH*#! You have to wait that long to get paid from a minimum wage job with SH*#ty working conditions, and people actually think that's okay?

This goes to the deeper reason why there is no sports officials. We're our own worst enemy. People put up with this bullSH*#, and a myriad of other things, and wonder why there are no officials. We've put up with SH*#ty pay, lousy working conditions, waiting for your money, dues, assigner fees, etc. Nothing F*#King changes.

And some people think this is okay? It's not okay. Until people stop putting up with this BS, it's never going to change. Stop working these SH*#ty games until the pay and working conditions improve. I have. I won't work paid games anymore. I'm done with that SH*#. I'm still waiting to get paid for 3 HS games from 2021. I haven't worked a F*#King game for that association since.

[The Man in Blue]

All areas are going to be different and the most important thing you need to learn is how your area works.  Around here, waiting 5 weeks for payment is unacceptable.  If that is normal for those schools to take that long, then there isn't much you can do other than give up future contracts if you wish.  

 

7 hours ago, Richvee said:

Don’t  bother your assignors with getting paid unless you run into a roadblock reaching out  to the school yourself. 15 years doing Jersey  high school and maybe twice, ( on a second or third email to the AD) did I ever get the assignor involved by CC’ing him on the follow up email.  Keep good records. 

I'll go against what I just said a little bit though ... I don't care what area you are in, the assignor should be bothered with these issues.   I'm not saying bother your assignor if that is not the norm, I'm saying assignors chose to take this job to get a piece of the action, so it is their job.  Maybe I'm getting a little more stubborn on this because assignors are becoming a little more common around here, but IF you are going to interject yourself and become the gateway between me and the school, then that relationship needs to be more than you collecting a payment for YOUR services and slapping my name on a spreadsheet.

If you are assigning, you should be:

• visiting the officials, schools, and games you are assigning, NOT working games yourself.
• developing the officials you are assigning.
• making sure schools are providing adequate facilities and taking care of the officials.
• taking care of finding replacements when needed -- I normally agree that if I cannot fulfill a contract, I should find my replacement.  However, if you are the middle man and are getting paid to make sure the game is covered, then I should only need to let you know I cannot work.  The rest is the job you took on.
• stepping in and advocating for your officials when there are issues with getting paid.

 

Thoughts from others?

 

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

For those not in NJ, school districts are primarily not county wide schools. Most HS teams are a small region - say four towns - or are one town only. The schools range in size from 400 students to over 5,000 students and play other teams based on size and geographic area.

Our new friend will find that urban districts tend to take longer to make payments, but it is rare to have to make multiple inquiries with most districts. Some districts mail checks while others use the less than user friendly system of Zebrapay that @Richvee mentioned. That system releases payments every other Friday and if the cutoff was missed by the school, you're going to have to wait at least two more weeks. That's the system the state chose for all its sports assigning and officials related business. Most people do not like it, but there is nothing any of us can really do to change it. 

I have never seen any contract among the various leagues and umpire associations regarding HS ball in NJ. Associations have nothing to do with assigning or payments. There is some negotiation with assigners and leagues regarding the amount of fees for officials in all sports, not just baseball. In most businesses, 30 days is not outrageous for accounts receivable. 

My advice? Lighten up Francis

 

There is nothing any of us can do to change it, but there are things many of us can do to change it.

Even if it just getting together and sending a letter to the schools that are taking exorbitant amounts of time to pay and let them know, "Hey, we want to make you aware that no other school in the area takes more than 2 weeks to pay officials. Currently, officials are reporting 5 week (or longer) waits to be paid for their services rendered to your school.  We encourage you to take a look at ways to streamline your practices to bring them in line with area schools."

If an assignor is involved, then he/she should be brought on board.  If a local association exists, then they should be engaged.

Maybe it changes something, maybe it doesn't.  You don't know until you try.

 

As for the state adopting a system that holds your pay and makes you wait on two week cycles... that is DEFINITELY something that officials need to push back on the state on.  I thought Arbiter here sucked ... that is completely unacceptable.  I am not quite sure how to push back on the state (short of not accepting contracts from any place that uses that system), but it is something that needs to be brought up at every association meeting, clinic, and conference until the state is sick of hearing about it.  Again, maybe flood their office with letters -- actual letters, not e-mails -- to get their attention.

[Richvee]

12 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

 

5 weeks and still no payment!? How about F*#K that SH*#! You have to wait that long to get paid from a minimum wage job with SH*#ty working conditions, and people actually think that's okay

 

1. If I really need that one off check that bad from one of the schools I worked a game for, maybe I should be looking for a better full time job. 
2.  This isn’t a job. It’s a hobby/ advocation /recreation that’s puts a couple extra dollars in my pocket. If it comes at the plate,  tomorrow, or at the end of the season, it’s not an issue. 
 

My advice to you would be never consider a move to NJ to work high school or college ball. 😁( not that anyone would ever want to by choice… We’re trying to follow the CA plan for state failure, but that’s another story ). Bottom line, We’ve never not been paid, but quick turn around isn’t always the way here. As mentioned , high school,  we are paid by the school districts, and a not by an assigner or association. Some districts pay accounts payable only after their monthly meeting when all payments are approved… be it for officials, food vendors, the plumber who fixed the boys room toilet, whatever. If you worked a game the day after the monthly meeting, you’ve got a 4 week minimum wait until the next meeting, then processing time. Between @Kevin_K and I I’d guess we have well over 1,000 games in NJ…. Been paid for every damn one. 

[The Man in Blue]

@Richvee…  if that is the norm there, then that is the norm.  It sounds outrageous to many of us on the outside looking in.  I guess my biggest question is, “Is that communicated to new umpires when they start?”  If I came there, I would be be shocked when I learned that.

Saying they the board has to meet to approve the payment is baloney. I mean, they may be doing that, but it is completely unnecessary and just an excuse. The board has the authority to authorize expenditures with limitations. This is usually the case for monthly, fairly stable amounts.

We are paid by schools and school districts here also.  The norm is to get the check at the game (usually before).  One school started mailing checks again last year, usually taking two weeks.  They started losing umpires.  Not me, I like working for them, but I ended up working four additional games due to guys canceling on them because of the delay.  A few years back, a local complex also lost umpires when they went to paying every two weeks rather than at the end of a tournament.

I fully agree, I wouldn’t bank on this as a regular job where you can depend on that check to pay your bills. However, for some people it is.  My son is one of those.  He is a full-time college student who pays his tuition and some living expenses with his game checks.  Umpiring gives him the flexibility for his studies.

IMO, it isn’t about the money, it’s about another perceived slight towards the profession.  It’s about the treatment of you.  As I said, if that is the norm up there and people know it, then all the more power to you.  If the norm is 2 weeks, then I would say people need to be vocal and let the 5-week school know, “Hey, this isn’t normal or acceptable. You need to get with the program.”

[Richvee]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

@Richvee…  if that is the norm there, then that is the norm.  It sounds outrageous to many of us on the outside looking in.  I guess my biggest question is, “Is that communicated to new umpires when they start?”  If I came there, I would be be shocked when I learned that.

Saying they the board has to meet to approve the payment is baloney. I mean, they may be doing that, but it is completely unnecessary and just an excuse. The board has the authority to authorize expenditures with limitations. This is usually the case for monthly, fairly stable amounts.

We are paid by schools and school districts here also.  The norm is to get the check at the game (usually before).  One school started mailing checks again last year, usually taking two weeks.  They started losing umpires.  Not me, I like working for them, but I ended up working four additional games due to guys canceling on them because of the delay.  A few years back, a local complex also lost umpires when they went to paying every two weeks rather than at the end of a tournament.

I fully agree, I wouldn’t bank on this as a regular job where you can depend on that check to pay your bills. However, for some people it is.  My son is one of those.  He is a full-time college student who pays his tuition and some living expenses with his game checks.  Umpiring gives him the flexibility for his studies.

IMO, it isn’t about the money, it’s about another perceived slight towards the profession.  It’s about the treatment of you.  As I said, if that is the norm up there and people know it, then all the more power to you.  If the norm is 2 weeks, then I would say people need to be vocal and let the 5-week school know, “Hey, this isn’t normal or acceptable. You need to get with the program.”

When I started it was almost exclusively checks at the game for high school. It’s transitioned over the years. Less and less day of game, more Zebra pay, similar to arbiter pay. It’s really a small minority here that take more than two weeks. I can’t imagine not taking games from some schools over a few weeks delay. It’s only a few games over the course of the season. But I guess some just want every check ASAP.  

[JonnyCat]

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

We’re trying to follow the CA plan for state failure, but that’s another story

That's an excellent plan. We're doing very well in the failure department here!

I understand how sometimes payment takes a while, but that's not the point. The point is that I performed a service and should be paid in a timely matter. Doesn't matter if it's peanuts, or if it's a hobby to me. These schools don't need to have an antiquated method of payment. Period. Here in SoCal, many schools still use the voucher system, and most all the schools were doing that method of payment up until 3 or 4 years ago. It's unacceptable and I shouldn't have to be chasing down payment after I performed a service.

None of this stuff is helping our industry. Lets ask ourselves the following:

Aside from asking (begging) people to join our avocation, what have we done as an industry to curb the hemorrhaging of officials?

1. Has the rate of pay increased to commensurate with the value of what is required from us (training, gear, etc.)? No.

2. Is there an incentive system in which better umpires make more than 1st time novices? No. Everyone makes the same.

3. Have the working conditions improved? No. 

4. Have the administrative bodies (i.e. FED, Youth organizations, competitive organizations, etc.) made real effort to stem the tide of abuse? No.

So what have we done collectively as a whole to make our industry better besides complaining? Nothing. We just put up with things like what the OP is saying, chalking it up to, "this is just the way it is, so get used to it." We say we want change, yet we continue to work games for lousy pay and poor working conditions. How the F*#K does that help recruit and retain officials?

It's been in decline for many years and our current path is unsustainable. Complacency is really the root cause of our problems. It doesn't matter if things are "just the way they are, put up with it."

It's still not right.

Where are all the officials?

[Richvee]

48 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

That's an excellent plan. We're doing very well in the failure department here!

I understand how sometimes payment takes a while, but that's not the point. The point is that I performed a service and should be paid in a timely matter. Doesn't matter if it's peanuts, or if it's a hobby to me. These schools don't need to have an antiquated method of payment. Period. Here in SoCal, many schools still use the voucher system, and most all the schools were doing that method of payment up until 3 or 4 years ago. It's unacceptable and I shouldn't have to be chasing down payment after I performed a service.

None of this stuff is helping our industry. Lets ask ourselves the following:

Aside from asking (begging) people to join our avocation, what have we done as an industry to curb the hemorrhaging of officials?

1. Has the rate of pay increased to commensurate with the value of what is required from us (training, gear, etc.)? No.

2. Is there an incentive system in which better umpires make more than 1st time novices? No. Everyone makes the same.

3. Have the working conditions improved? No. 

4. Have the administrative bodies (i.e. FED, Youth organizations, competitive organizations, etc.) made real effort to stem the tide of abuse? No.

So what have we done collectively as a whole to make our industry better besides complaining? Nothing. We just put up with things like what the OP is saying, chalking it up to, "this is just the way it is, so get used to it." We say we want change, yet we continue to work games for lousy pay and poor working conditions. How the F*#K does that help recruit and retain officials?

It's been in decline for many years and our current path is unsustainable. Complacency is really the root cause of our problems. It doesn't matter if things are "just the way they are, put up with it."

It's still not right.

Where are all the officials?

  Can’t disagree with  any of that. 

[834k3r]

On 4/21/2023 at 11:26 AM, gabesdad said:

Afternoon fellow umpires.  First year NJSIAA umpire and there are two towns that are jerking me around regarding pay.  Coming close to 5 weeks and still no pay.  Assigner said this is normal, which I strongly disagree.  How long should I wait before telling the assigner to unassign me from all games from these two districts?  Many thanks.

Had this happen to me last week. I texted the assignor (assigner?) and he contacted the AD. I received payment within an hour of that. Personally, I'd wait until the end of the season, but I'm not in your situation. My primary concern would be any diminished reputation with the assignor (assigner?), so I'd completely avoid blacklisting those districts.

Again, YMMV--and probably does.

[ErichKeane]

Of interest-  A few years ago our local umpires organization switched to direct-deposit payments 1x a week, AND you get paid current for it (through 'reftown.com').  For example, this weekend, I worked 9, ending about 7pm.  I had a direct deposit 'filed' by 9pm.  It is my understanding from talking to a few 'local town' assigners and officials that this has caused a vast majority of the umps to ONLY work through reftown. 

I've worked for 3 local towns outside of reftown due to umpiring shortages, and each of the assigners has complained how I'm one of the few who will work outside of reftown anymore.  By the end of the season, I definitely 'get it'.  The 'best' of the 3 (my local town), issued a check every ~month.  The 'worst' took a few months before I got my check.

The 'best' one (which is actually my home town, and I got into umpiring to help them out when I can), I spoke with the organizer.  Since we're quite a bit in the 'sticks', these 3 towns tend to not be able to get umpires through reftown willing to come out (driving 45+ mins each way for a single $55 paycheck ain't that tempting to most!).  AND, the organization also charges them an additional $5 per game successfully assigned, so it puts additional hardship on them. 

So they are in between a rock and a hard place (which is why I'm willing to work with them anyway), but am going to be MUCH less motivated for anything but my home town.

[Thatsnotyou]

It’s 2023. I don’t understand how all schools aren’t paying electronically by now. If they don’t, they should be required to have the check in the mail within a week. I loathe having to chase down payments with polite “hey I worked a game at your school 4 weeks ago, do you need anything on my end to process payment?”

 

I’ve yet to hear a valid reason why it takes 4 weeks to type up a check and mail it. 
 

If they don’t like answering the email, pay people quicker. I hope officials in all sports fill their inboxes. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

1 hour ago, Thatsnotyou said:

It’s 2023. I don’t understand how all schools aren’t paying electronically by now. If they don’t, they should be required to have the check in the mail within a week. I loathe having to chase down payments with polite “hey I worked a game at your school 4 weeks ago, do you need anything on my end to process payment?”

 

I’ve yet to hear a valid reason why it takes 4 weeks to type up a check and mail it. 
 

If they don’t like answering the email, pay people quicker. I hope officials in all sports fill their inboxes. 

In addition to my usual scholastic, travel and men's league schedule (for which I receive 3 checks annually)...I work a small, local youth league. It's a bridge league for kids who can't afford travel baseball and want to get summer reps after Little League and the scholastic season ends. It's a bit of a charity project that is funded by a generous private endowment. They used to pay us with checks at the plate at every game and then last year, our UIC floated the notion of e-payments which would be done weekly. Initially, the league was warm to the notion because they didn't like having to write 200-something checks a season and remember to present them at every game. But, we got word back before the season started that they explored several options and they just saw the transaction fees as too high.

But, yes...pardon me for painting with a broad brush and spending other people's tax revenues, most (not all) public and private high schools, should be able to combine their collective strength and afford to pay their sports officials electronically on a weekly basis. Imagine an official's or umpire association or league being able to market that to the public. It won't solve our national manpower shortage but, I think a lot of college students or retirees might like the idea of $200 or more a week for a few baseball games (or other sports) scheduled at their convenience.

~Dawg 

[Mudisfun]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:39 PM, JonnyCat said:

5 weeks and still no payment!? How about F*#K that SH*#! You have to wait that long to get paid from a minimum wage job with SH*#ty working conditions, and people actually think that's okay?

This goes to the deeper reason why there is no sports officials. We're our own worst enemy. People put up with this bullSH*#, and a myriad of other things, and wonder why there are no officials. We've put up with SH*#ty pay, lousy working conditions, waiting for your money, dues, assigner fees, etc. Nothing F*#King changes.

And some people think this is okay? It's not okay. Until people stop putting up with this BS, it's never going to change. Stop working these SH*#ty games until the pay and working conditions improve. I have. I won't work paid games anymore. I'm done with that SH*#. I'm still waiting to get paid for 3 HS games from 2021. I haven't worked a F*#King game for that association since.

Tell us how you really feel John 

 

Most districts in my area are fairly punctual, some paying via Arbiter Pay the same day as the game. The only outlier is one district which only cuts checks once a month. Do a game a couple days prior to that cut off, your paid almost immediately. Do your game the day of? You will be waiting a month. 

I had 1 check from water polo I had to chase down from a tournament which the school was profusely apologetic for and who cut a check the same day to rectify. I find a nicely worded email to the coach and AD normally has the intended response. Only 1 time in 10 years have I had to reach out to the school Principal and it was amazing how quickly the AD suddenly became responsive. 

 

[LMSANS]

I’ve been working the Shore Conferenxe for 20 years. Most districts pay in a week or 2. There have been exceptions. One district would take up to two months. It was a timing thing; all checks had to be approved by the school board that meets once a month. It takes a couple of days to prep the check…miss the cycle and you are in for a wait. I ran into the AD at a wrestling match I was working. I asked him about my payment for a football game I had worked a month before. He took me to his office to check. The voucher was still in a pile on his desk. He pulled it out and gave it to his assistant. Of course the board meeting was the night before.

That district now does the voucher online. I got paid in 10 days for a scrimmage last month.

Many officials have blocked this district. It’s the town I live in. And as Richvee says this isn’t the income I’m using to pay my mortgage.

Edited May 1, 2023 by LMSANS
typos typos typos

[The Man in Blue]

6 hours ago, LMSANS said:

Many officials have blocked this district. It’s the town I live in.

Sadly, that may be what it takes to get them to change their processes.  Even sadder, they will realize it too late.

Like I said, whatever the norm is for your area, there is no excuse for a few places to be WAY behind that curve.

[TheRockawayKid]

On 4/26/2023 at 12:02 AM, SeeingEyeDog said:

In addition to my usual scholastic, travel and men's league schedule (for which I receive 3 checks annually)...

This is what strikes me, honestly. I've known some umpire organizations and/or school systems that will only pay their checks at the end of the season. All school ball gets paid, then all summer ball gets paid, then all fall ball gets paid. 

And just something to consider -- although this is an avocation (and hobby) for most, for some it is an important source of income. I can name a few college students and recent graduates who are relying on whatever money they can muster to keep their head above water financially. I know a few not-so-young officials who are doing multiple sports to keep up with the rising costs of living (and I won't continue to go down a political or economic tangent). Let's not be dismissive of those fellow officials, please.

[SeeingEyeDog]

Agreed, @TheRockawayKid...in my market, I think it's a top five reason why our ranks locally are thinning and recruiting is impossible. Think of it...you need to buy several hundred dollars in equipment and uniforms and tests and certification fees, spend some hours in classrooms and in clinics starting in January and then work games. But you won't see any income until late June? On another thread, I talked about what a great job amateur officiating is for college students who typically need a job with a schedule they can have control over. And I still think that...but, the inability to secure wages sooner after performing the work is a huge turnoff. In the US, our work culture here for the most part is...paycheck every two weeks.

If we dare to look at this logically, for scholastic games the school systems have their money. In 2023 with electronic banking, they could be paying us at the end of every game.

For men's rec and travel, they have their league fees. Play literally cannot start if they have not collected league fees. If they don't collect league fees, they can't pay their field usage bills and other upfront costs. Again, with e-banking, paying officials is a pass through expense. But, we as umpires and associations, have allowed our clients to dictate these terms for us of paying us 3 times a year because they are the client and that is what is best for them.

Not to mention, after several decades of being in business together, both sides know about how many games will be played each season AND how many umpires will be paid to work those games and thus what the bill will be. If your annual umpiring expenditure is say $100,000, can't you throw the umpires a bone and pay them say $25,000 to prime the pump so to speak? Of course, they could but...it's not what they want to do. With umpire demand continuing to go up and the supply of umpires shrinking, maybe it's time to get what WE want?

~Dawg