Anyone out there using a stopwatch to enforce the pitch clock for FED?

[SeeingEyeDog]

FED Rule 6-2, ART. 2, c.- ...failing to pitch or make or attempt a play, including a legal feint, within 20 seconds after he has received the ball. PENALTY: The batter shall be awarded one ball.

From the "People Say Unusual Things On The Internet" file...

I saw what I would presume was an umpire commenting on a YouTube video regarding MLB's new pitch clock rules. The user stated their association has their base umpires equipped with stopwatches to assist with the enforcement of the above rule for FED games. Brothers, can anyone out there confirm they are using a stopwatch in FED games? If so, how long have you been doing so and how is it working?

~Dawg 

[mac266]

I bought a pitch timer for working junior college games (which uses the NCAA rules).  So I thought about using it in high school games but I would be the only person in my entire part of the state doing it.  I don't think it would be right because everyone would be thrown off terribly because they're not used to it.  So, no, not right now.

[SeeingEyeDog]

Thanks, @mac266. I was talking with a brother who works college at a HS scrimmage recently and he said he thinks a pitch clock of some sort is coming to HS games. As you said, with the belt timers, the NCAA has demonstrated that the intervals can be timed and enforced effectively without the need for a visible timer which most HS may not be able to afford.

~Dawg 

[The Man in Blue]

I doubt it ... but I'm headed to my clinic this evening.  Will post an update on what Illinois thinks.

In my experience, it is really a matter of game management.  If there is no need (i.e., the pacing is fine), then there is no need.  When I have had slow moving pitchers or batters in FED, it is usually a couple of conversations (player and coach) and then, if still needed, we move to counting and a penalty phase.

I can't say I don't like the idea, but there are some logistical issues to work out.

[Richvee]

If we are to start timing 20 seconds in high school, FED would need to come up with guidelines.... When to start the clock, when does the clock stop, when does it reset,  what to do with step offs and feints to a base, etc. Right now I think the best we can do to enforce 20 seconds in high school is, not have the pitcher walking around dong nothing for 20 seconds. Warn him.. probably more than once that he needs to step it up a little, he's unnecessarily  delaying the game and if they continue you're going to have to penalize him. 

Love to hear the guidance Arizona has received since I believe they are using a clock in high school  this season.

@MadMax? 

[Catch18]

The user stated their association has their base umpires equipped with stopwatches to assist with the enforcement of the above rule….

“Sorry, OC, I probably missed that balk because I was looking down and checking a stop watch.”

“Sorry, DC, he might have been picked off, but I was looking at the stopwatch.”

Like Richvee said, this is not a route in HS that I’d take. The plate can monitor P, if he’s dragging it along and pushing 20 sec, then address it. We don’t need this at the HS level.

[BigBlue4u]

6 hours ago, mac266 said:

I bought a pitch timer for working junior college games (which uses the NCAA rules).  So I thought about using it in high school games but I would be the only person in my entire part of the state doing it.  I don't think it would be right because everyone would be thrown off terribly because they're not used to it.  So, no, not right now.

Very good advice.  Don't be a voice in the wilderness.

[The Man in Blue]

That would be a "do not do" in Illinois.  At least, during the regular season.  I recall a few years ago they tried this in the post-season.  There was specific direction to use a stop-watch, not a timer or wristwatch.  They very specifically wanted the optics of the umpire using a stop-watch.  That led to discussions like what @Catch18 posted.  I'm assuming it must not have been a great thing or a great result as it never made it beyond that.

[MadMax]

5 hours ago, Richvee said:

Love to hear the guidance Arizona has received since I believe they are using a clock in high school  this season.

@MadMax? 

Due to a not-so-insignificant number of us umpires involved in MiLB-adjacent, NCAA, NAIA, and NJCAA games, as well as NFHS, our state association boldly “volunteered” us to be the matinee. The dress rehearsal. The first boots on the ground. 

A number of us are puzzled as to why so many other states / associations are timid or reluctant to enforce the rule… it’s been on the books for awhile! However, we also admit it’s a bit of a “gummy shark”, meaning it doesn’t quite have the teeth to penalize either side (batting or pitching) in such a succinct way as NCAA (and derivatives). 

Example? Resets. According to the NFHS Rule, there’s nothing regarding resets, either limiting them, defining them, or any consequence for violating them (by quantity). Catcher conferences are another. The only limitation to conferences are when a coach is involved; as such, a catcher (or another fielder) can talk with the pitcher with no codified limit. 

The other big contrast is in regards to the batter. NFHS doesn’t quantify the seconds restriction on the batter (10 in NCAA; 8(?) in OBR), merely stipulating the batter has to be in and ready to a pitch being delivered within those same 20 seconds the pitcher is allowed. This is the “gummy shark” part, as it puts the burden on us, the PU, to direct the batter to get (back) into the box in an expedient manner, and be alert to the pitcher. There’s no “or else”. In NCAA, the onus is off us as PU, because the clock doesn’t lie – either the batter is ready & alert at 10 seconds, or it’s a Strike. Period. 

In my travels and experience, the lack of fervor on directing amateur batters (younger than college) to get into the box and ready is explained by fear – fear of the confrontation with the batter, or by extension, his (3B or head) coach. 

However, there’s an accessory component to this stopwatch-keeping, aside from the 20-second pitch clock. It’s the Between Innings clock. This has been the game-changing piece we’ve needed. 

NFHS outlines – I believe, 60 seconds(?). The state of Arizona has modified that, and adopted 90 seconds. Not surprisingly, this has affected the tiny 1A schools the most, as they can barely field rosters of 9 players, and when the pitcher or catcher were on the bases or hitting when the last out was recorded, we have to be flexible in our enforcement of the 90 seconds. Most surprisingly, however, has been how it has affected a select few big premier (6A) schools, who routinely carry this haughty air that they shall not be rushed between innings. Effective, consistent, stern (but flexible) enforcement of the 90 (60) seconds has really sped the Varsity games up. 

The 90 seconds is kept in both Varsity and JV (Sub-varsity). However, since we either do Sub-varsity games solo, or with non-AIA umpires (at times), the 20-second pitch clock is optional for sub-varsity only. Mercifully, all sub-varsity games are time-limited to 2 hours, no more than that. 

And no, you don’t need a fancy-shmancy RefTimer for this. I use my trusty stopwatch for NCAA, NAIA, NJCAA, and NFHS… 

[Richvee]

@MadMaxYour post highlights why I believe a FED mandate on pitch/action clocks is not going to happen any time soon. Too many variables and that leads to sporadic enforcement. 

[834k3r]

22 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

FED Rule 6-2, ART. 2, c.- ...failing to pitch or make or attempt a play, including a legal feint, within 20 seconds after he has received the ball. PENALTY: The batter shall be awarded one ball.

From the "People Say Unusual Things On The Internet" file...

I saw what I would presume was an umpire commenting on a YouTube video regarding MLB's new pitch clock rules. The user stated their association has their base umpires equipped with stopwatches to assist with the enforcement of the above rule for FED games. Brothers, can anyone out there confirm they are using a stopwatch in FED games? If so, how long have you been doing so and how is it working?

~Dawg 

I specifically asked my local UIC and he said our association will not use timers.

[JSam21]

The way that the Fed rule is written, it is unenforceable. Simple as that.

[Thunderheads]

MY GOD ....PLEASE ...... STOP TALKING ABOUT "PITCH CLOCK VIOLATIONS" IN NFHS!  Between here and the Fakebook posts, I'm about to jump off a bridge 🙄   6.2.2. c is THERE, and it's been there for a long time, but I've never SEEN or HEARD of ANYONE enforcing it.

In MLB, the 3rd to 1st move has been illegal for how long?   And ......... that's right,.......it's STILL LEGAL in HS, so ...I don't see this coming anytime soon.

Whew ........I feel better!

[TheRockawayKid]

10 hours ago, MadMax said:

 

However, there’s an accessory component to this stopwatch-keeping, aside from the 20-second pitch clock. It’s the Between Innings clock. This has been the game-changing piece we’ve needed. 

NFHS outlines – I believe, 60 seconds(?). The state of Arizona has modified that, and adopted 90 seconds. Not surprisingly, this has affected the tiny 1A schools the most, as they can barely field rosters of 9 players, and when the pitcher or catcher were on the bases or hitting when the last out was recorded, we have to be flexible in our enforcement of the 90 seconds. Most surprisingly, however, has been how it has affected a select few big premier (6A) schools, who routinely carry this haughty air that they shall not be rushed between innings. Effective, consistent, stern (but flexible) enforcement of the 90 (60) seconds has really sped the Varsity games up. 

 

It's 90 seconds from the time of first pitch. So a team can take its time getting out there as much as they want. That doesn't help things really.

[MadMax]

2 hours ago, TheRockawayKid said:

It's 90 seconds from the time of first pitch. So a team can take its time getting out there as much as they want. That doesn't help things really.

 
I’m not understanding what you’re interpreting. 

Last out of the half-inning is recorded, the clock starts. 90 seconds later, we should have the pitcher on the mound with a soon-to-be-made-live (NOCSAE approved!) ball, a catcher in or near enough to the plate for the PU to direct him to catch, and a batter about to enter the box. 

Some of the burden is on us, as umpires, to enforce this, and not placidly allow the interminable between-inning warming up and toddling around and throwing balls all over the field, but the burden has to be also shouldered by the teams… quit with the huddles in foul territory, quit with the hiding in the dugouts, quit with the waiting a full 2 minutes before approaching the umpire with eighteen lineup changes, etc. 

90 seconds. Get in, get out. 

[mac266]

On 3/12/2023 at 9:37 AM, SeeingEyeDog said:

Thanks, @mac266. I was talking with a brother who works college at a HS scrimmage recently and he said he thinks a pitch clock of some sort is coming to HS games. As you said, with the belt timers, the NCAA has demonstrated that the intervals can be timed and enforced effectively without the need for a visible timer which most HS may not be able to afford.

~Dawg 

It's already in the NFHS rule book.  My only hangup is that I'm the only one in my association who owns a pitch timer, so I'm not going to be the only one enforcing it. 

 

I do, of course, enforce it in JuCo games.

[Thunderheads]

26 minutes ago, MadMax said:

 
I’m not understanding what you’re interpreting. 

Last out of the half-inning is recorded, the clock starts. 90 seconds later, we should have the pitcher on the mound with a soon-to-be-made-live (NOCSAE approved!) ball, a catcher in or near enough to the plate for the PU to direct him to catch, and a batter about to enter the box. 

Some of the burden is on us, as umpires, to enforce this, and not placidly allow the interminable between-inning warming up and toddling around and throwing balls all over the field, but the burden has to be also shouldered by the teams… quit with the huddles in foul territory, quit with the hiding in the dugouts, quit with the waiting a full 2 minutes before approaching the umpire with eighteen lineup changes, etc. 

90 seconds. Get in, get out. 

Michigan still utilizes 1 minute.  I (and some others) carry a stop watch for in between innings.  I typically don't start it until the defense leaves the field.   I'd say MOST of the time ... we're ready to go before my stop watch gets to 60 seconds, so ... IT DOES HELP move the games along quite a bit!

[TheRockawayKid]

3 hours ago, MadMax said:

 
I’m not understanding what you’re interpreting. 

Last out of the half-inning is recorded, the clock starts. 90 seconds later, we should have the pitcher on the mound with a soon-to-be-made-live (NOCSAE approved!) ball, a catcher in or near enough to the plate for the PU to direct him to catch, and a batter about to enter the box. 

Some of the burden is on us, as umpires, to enforce this, and not placidly allow the interminable between-inning warming up and toddling around and throwing balls all over the field, but the burden has to be also shouldered by the teams… quit with the huddles in foul territory, quit with the hiding in the dugouts, quit with the waiting a full 2 minutes before approaching the umpire with eighteen lineup changes, etc. 

90 seconds. Get in, get out. 

Oops, you're right. I confused the time of a reliever vs. the in-between inning. 

[The Man in Blue]

I would add another piece to @MadMax's masterful mouthful of elocution:

60 seconds.

I don't care that the catcher needs to get his gear on, but yes, I am going to work with that as long as he is moving.  When he quits moving to argue with his mom because he wanted the Blue Flavored Gatorade (blue is not a flavor kid) ... we start to have a problem.  When the 6 coaches are all looking like the King of the Hill gang (Yup.) ... we start to have a problem.

But here is my bigger rub: while he is doing that, we better have somebody out here warming up the pitcher.  What we aren't going to do is let the catcher take his time and THEN think we are getting a full slate of warm up pitches AND a throw down to second base.  (HINT: NOTHING says he gets a throw down to second base.)

I wear a watch these days.  I know they don't want us to, but with time now being an element (Illinois middle school games have adopted time limits), I do.  At the pregame I let my PU know I have the time, and I will start moving to the baseline at 50 seconds.  That's his cue to get a throw down going or to cut them off.  Some guys do, some keep talking to the hot book keeper in the front row (and then I get hot in a different way).

[kylehutson]

For several years in KS, we have been instructed to have a stopwatch for the period between innings. 60 second timer starts when the last defensive player leaves the field. At 20 seconds left, BU goes to A position. And we are to give leeway if the pitcher or catcher was at bat or on the bases at the end of the inning.

On 3/13/2023 at 8:39 PM, The Man in Blue said:

blue is not a flavor kid

Here is where you're wrong. Blue, red, and purple are absolutely flavors of Gatorade, Kool-Aid, and snow cones

[The Man in Blue]

[Richvee]

 

[Mister B]

On 3/13/2023 at 9:03 AM, Thunderheads said:

... IT DOES HELP move the games along quite a bit!

Last year, I worked with a guy who didn't believe that making sure the teams are hustling would save us that much time. So I kept track. We had 49 minutes of BS time. That doesn't include the 75 seconds I gave them to get on and warmed up. Rule is 60 here, but I give a little extra if they are close. And I piss off some catchers, when they come out at 65 seconds and I tell them that we are going. "But he didn't get a warm-up." Not my problem, I told the dugout at 20 seconds that they needed somebody out there. And if it's sub-varsity, I mention it at the plate meeting. 

[The Man in Blue]

19 hours ago, Mister B said:

Last year, I worked with a guy who didn't believe that making sure the teams are hustling would save us that much time. So I kept track. We had 49 minutes of BS time. That doesn't include the 75 seconds I gave them to get on and warmed up. Rule is 60 here, but I give a little extra if they are close. And I piss off some catchers, when they come out at 65 seconds and I tell them that we are going. "But he didn't get a warm-up." Not my problem, I told the dugout at 20 seconds that they needed somebody out there. And if it's sub-varsity, I mention it at the plate meeting. 

 

See that bolded part.  It isn't about the actual seconds = minutes conversion.  It is about the entire pace of the game.  Let them drag-ass in between innings and they will drag-ass through innings.  It is about so much more than just those specific seconds.  Get them hustling and keep them hustling.  They will be better athletes for it, we will get better games for it, and fans will enjoy the games more.

[refump10]

On 3/12/2023 at 3:13 AM, SeeingEyeDog said:

FED Rule 6-2, ART. 2, c.- ...failing to pitch or make or attempt a play, including a legal feint, within 20 seconds after he has received the ball. PENALTY: The batter shall be awarded one ball.

From the "People Say Unusual Things On The Internet" file...

I saw what I would presume was an umpire commenting on a YouTube video regarding MLB's new pitch clock rules. The user stated their association has their base umpires equipped with stopwatches to assist with the enforcement of the above rule for FED games. Brothers, can anyone out there confirm they are using a stopwatch in FED games? If so, how long have you been doing so and how is it working?

~Dawg 

II can confirm there are parts or Kentucky that are enforcing it.  We are doing it in collaboration with our coaches in the interest  of keeping games moving both between innings and with the “pitch clock”