No pitch - ball in play

[Guest Joe Blake]

10u game. We had a very wishy washy ump who half assed tried to signal a no pitch in the middle of a kids delivery. Didn’t call time. Didn’t put 2 hand up. Just a quiet “no pitch” uttered and started to stand up out of his crouch. There wasn’t a clear reason why he was calling no pitch.  Pitcher still delivers the pitch. Kid gets a hit. Ump allows the hit. Defense said it should be no pitch. Ump says no one must have heard him plays it like a delayed dead ball play the same as a hit off of a balk. I think the fault lies with the ump for not properly calling time to call off the pitch. But since no one really could hear him and time wasn’t called, the kids played it out, and he felt it was right to allow the hit. What do your think?

[JonnyCat]

2 minutes ago, Guest Joe Blake said:

What do your think?

I think maybe you should get on the field and start umpiring and helping out with the shortage of umpires nationwide. What are you doing to make your community and league a better place to play at?

Or do you just want to bitch over someone trying to learn a craft at a meaningless 10u game? Have you helped out?

[Guest James Blake]

I’m the commissioner of the league and have spent hundreds if not thousands  of unpaid hours organizing, fundraising, recruiting coaches, scheduling games, ordering uniforms, hiring umpires, running tryouts, developing freebraining cminics, fielding parent complaints, and everything else required to ensure 1000 kids have a enjoyable baseball season. I have in fact built relationships with local high schools to bring in kids from the freshman team to fill in for games that our local umpire scheduler couldn’t find coverage for. I’d wager to say I’ve dedicated more time than you to our local community. So why don’t you get off your high horse and answer what is simply a question about a quirky judgement play. The ump has been in the league for 10 years and is far from just learning his craft. I feel he made the right call but I wanted an outside opinion on it. Thanks for creating such a welcoming community for a first time poster. 

[ousafe]

If your league is a community league, 10u should have parent volunteers/conscripts call the game.

If you aren't paying for umps, at least your expectations will be appropriate. Paying for umps at the 10u level seems wasteful, unless it's a pure umpire training ground and understood to be such.

And coming to an umpire site openly critical ("wishy washy") and expecting a warm welcome? Wtf you been smoking?

[JonnyCat]

1 hour ago, Guest Joe Blake said:

We had a very wishy washy ump who half assed tried to signal a no pitch in the middle of a kids delivery.

If you're the commissioner of the league, then you must have hired this umpire. Why are you bad mouthing him?

Do you have a UIC? What's his position on this matter?

Sounds to me like you want to complain about a problem umpire to this forum. Try asking the question more respectfully, rather than coming across as bashing an umpire, which ironically works for the league you run.

[Guest James Blake]

Who’s bashing him? I said he made the right call. I also feel like he wasn’t direct enough in calling time and which led to the controversy. He let the play continue and given the age of the kids I think he was right. Parents and coaches are asking the league if we feel like it was the right call. Nothing changes either way. Just a curious situation that doesn’t turn up anything when googling the rules. i thought this was the kind of place where people discuss things like this. Guess not. 

[Guest James Blake]

We pay umps because we just do. We hire them from 8u up. The wishy washy description is quite appropriate because multiple times during the game, the ump crowd sourced his calls. For e ample, he was out of position on a timing play and proceeded to ask the parents of anyone saw when the kid crossed the plate. It’s not complaining or bashing, it’s adding color to better understand the quality of play. Just want to know if there’s a specific infix rule somewhere I can point parents too.  If no one wants to answer the question fine. 

[ousafe]

How can you not see YOUR words were pejorative?

I will say that your situation as described is unusual, and you are correct that he needed to call "time" properly if he was to kill play. You should be curious about the actual infraction. If there had been one that needed correction, he (probably) could have done so retroactively. Letting the kids' play stand seems like a good solution, and IMO the correct solution since time was never called.

If the defensive team is looking for a cheesy way to take a kid's hit off the board, in a 10u game, then shame on them.

[Tborze]

Talk about letting the inmates run the asylum!  
 

Try telling the parents to STFU and start supporting your officials!, Commish!

 

[maven]

Fella came to the wrong forum. I think he was looking for whiny-coaches.com.

[Thunderheads]

7 hours ago, Guest James Blake said:

I’m the commissioner of the league and have spent hundreds if not thousands  of unpaid hours organizing, fundraising, recruiting coaches, scheduling games, ordering uniforms, hiring umpires, running tryouts, developing freebraining cminics, fielding parent complaints, and everything else required to ensure 1000 kids have a enjoyable baseball season. I have in fact built relationships with local high schools to bring in kids from the freshman team to fill in for games that our local umpire scheduler couldn’t find coverage for. I’d wager to say I’ve dedicated more time than you to our local community. So why don’t you get off your high horse and answer what is simply a question about a quirky judgement play. The ump has been in the league for 10 years and is far from just learning his craft. I feel he made the right call but I wanted an outside opinion on it. Thanks for creating such a welcoming community for a first time poster. 

YOU came on an UMPIRE forum, bashing an umpire.  And don't try to say again that you thought he was right in his call, because in another post, you're bashing him again.   A "time play" in a 10u game?"  HIGHLY unlikely.  So, ...the high horse that needs to be dismounted is YOURS.

Your approach won't make any friends here.  Your initial post could have been worded much better if you were indeed just looking to see if a "10u no pitch/time" call was correct.    

And finally,... DO NOT ever "wager to say you've dedicated more time than anyone else in their community" to us, who do this and have done this for YEARS. You don't want to know the amount of time WE HAVE DEDICATED to helping the kids play baseball.  I'd wager that OUR TIME far exceeds yours.  We give back to the community when NO ONE else wants to.

Next time you want to ask a question - ask it without your opinionated viewpoints, fine tune your wording, and I'm sure you'll find you'll get a better response.

[Catch18]

This s*** is gettin’ lit!!

[ErichKeane]

It sounds like you believe you have an under-trained umpire.  It happens, particularly when recruiting less experienced umpires.  If I were you, I'd complain to the league commissioner that he has been doing a half-ass job in handling league umpire training and recruiting.  The way your league gets better umpiring is to work with an established umpire organization that does training, or train/curate your umpires along the way.

Either way, finding a quality official with experience to do a 10U game is going to be challenging.  I've done a few 9U games, and now that I've got a couple dozen of them under my belt, hope I don't have to do another one. 

 

[Guest James Blake]

3 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

A "time play" in a 10u game?"  HIGHLY unlikely.  So, ...the high horse that needs to be dismounted is YOURS.

 

You guys must only work higher level games. It happens all the time in youth baseball. Instead of throwing to 1st for the third out, the shortstop or third baseman decides to try and tag a non-forced runner coming from 2nd with a man trying to score from third. Wiggly kid tries to avoid the tag, sometimes  resulting in the runner crossing the plate before the tag. In this particular case the umpire had his back to the plate and didn’t look at when the runner crossed. 

[ErichKeane]

1 minute ago, Guest James Blake said:

You guys must only work higher level games. It happens all the time in youth baseball. Instead of throwing to 1st for the third out, the shortstop or third baseman decides to try and tag a non-forced runner coming from 2nd with a man trying to score from third. Wiggly kid tries to avoid the tag, sometimes  resulting in the runner crossing the plate before the tag. In this particular case the umpire had his back to the plate and didn’t look at when the runner crossed. 

Yep, definitely seen that.  In 1 man, you do your best.  If you want accurate time-play calls, you need 2+ umpires: first priority is getting the 'out' call right, time play is 2nd at best.  When I'm alone, I do a quick look back and make my best guess, and they have to live with it, but I can definitely see a lesser-experienced ump, in a game as low-seriousness as 10u being willing to ask someone for help on it.

[The Man in Blue]

Wow.  Just wow.

Guest, as somebody who has been on every side of the ball -- player, parent, coach, league president, and now umpire ... thank you for what you do.  If you want to talk about ways to improve your program (umpires or otherwise), PM me.

Time to break out one of my go-to statements: "Coach, ain't nobody right here."  Guest, you probably shouldn't critique your employees here -- you should address that with them directly.  You also shouldn't discuss your employees with your customers (the parents).  Fellow umps (and I am guilty at times, too), maybe we should approach these posts as we would on the field.

To the question ... If I was the administrator with parents coming to me, I would politely tell them "I am the administrator of a RECREATIONAL program that is ALWAYS in need of umpires" and then provide them the information for your certification process.  I wouldn't be discussing the umpire's behavior or calls.  If they want to know about rules, OK, we can talk about that.

As for the rule you are looking for ... I would say you first need to know what rule set you are using.  OBR?  NFHS?  PONY?  USSSA?  Lower Mid-Range Upper Whacker Eastern Division Southern Conference Youth League of Unaffiliated Teams?  One of the biggest mistakes youth baseball and softball programs make is NOT KNOWING what rules they are using beyond a few things typed up in a Word document.  TRUE STORY: Last night I worked a league I had never worked before.  They had a typed memo for umpires that we should skip a batter's spot in the lineup if the batter is in the bathroom or the concession stand.  Yet, not a single coach knew the run rules or if they were using IFF and UK3.

Now that that is out of the way ... I don't think any rule exists for what you are looking for.  I've been in that boat before -- I tried to kill a pitch or a play, but nobody paid any attention and they continued on.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I just let it play.  If I am the only one bothered ... then I should be the only one bothered.

  

[beerguy55]

12 hours ago, Guest Joe Blake said:

10u game. ump tried to signal a no pitch in the middle of a kids delivery. Didn’t call time. Didn’t put 2 hand up. Just a quiet “no pitch” uttered and started to stand up out of his crouch.  Pitcher still delivers the pitch. Kid gets a hit. Ump allows the hit. Defense said it should be no pitch. Ump plays it like a delayed dead ball play  since no one really could hear him and time wasn’t called, the kids played it out, and he felt it was right to allow the hit. What do your think?

Fixed it for you.

IMO - at this level, consider it an illegal pitch (rather than no pitch) and let the hit stand.   Let the kid have his hit.  The defensive coach is a douche bag for trying to take it away.

High school - yeah, ump should stand by his call and get better at communicating.