Called Game

[Guest Ryan]

Little League Rules

Umpire calls strike three.. Ball Game.  The batter appeals to the ump that he hit the catchers glove on the swing.  Umpires steps back onto the field and confers with field ump. They then awarded the batter first base.  Is the Game Over or not?

[Rich Ives]

12 minutes ago, Guest Ryan said:

Little League Rules

Umpire calls strike three.. Ball Game.  The batter appeals to the ump that he hit the catchers glove on the swing.  Umpires steps back onto the field and confers with field ump. They then awarded the batter first base.  Is the Game Over or not?

No. The out was nullified by the CI call. Only two outs now. Keep playing.

[beerguy55]

Had both umpires left the field?

I'm pretty sure game is over at that point, in any rule set, no?

[noumpere]

2 hours ago, Guest Ryan said:

Little League Rules

Umpire calls strike three.. Ball Game.

I've heard umpires orally state "Ball Game" -- but it has no official formal meaning (other than maybe in a weather or similar situation) in any code I am aware of.  The game ends when the game ends by rule -- not when the umpire makes some declaration

[Velho]

Just looked through LL "Rule 4.00 - Starting and Ending the Game". No mention of a formality about umpires leaving the field ending the game.

"Play Ball!"

[Sorry Defense. Get another out].

[The Man in Blue]

We don't have LL around here, so I'm not familiar with their book.  The clause about umpires leaving the field is generally under appeals though, not under ending the game.

[Velho]

48 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

The clause about umpires leaving the field is generally under appeals though, not under ending the game.

Agreed, and what my UIC tells us as well, but I couldn’t even find that in the LL book. 

[BDad]

LL baseball Rule 4.19(d) refers to protesting an ineligible pitcher or player may be considered only if made to the umpire before the umpire(s) leave the field at the end of the game. Doesn't refer specifically to an umpire determining the end of the game, though.

Rule 4.10 defines a regulation game. Rule 4.10(a) refers to a shortened regulation game "because the umpire calls the game". Seems like that wouldn't apply in the OP case if the full six (or seven) innings were completed--it would apply in cases like weather, darkness, etc.

[beerguy55]

12 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

We don't have LL around here, so I'm not familiar with their book.  The clause about umpires leaving the field is generally under appeals though, not under ending the game.

  

1 hour ago, BDad said:

LL baseball Rule 4.19(d) refers to protesting an ineligible pitcher or player may be considered only if made to the umpire before the umpire(s) leave the field at the end of the game. Doesn't refer specifically to an umpire determining the end of the game, though.

 

Isn't the implication that you can't appeal because the game is over when the umpire's leave the field?

Otherwise, where's the line to when the game officially ends?   Phone the umpire the next day and ask him to get help from his partner??

There is a line where the coach/players are no longer able to ask/consult/question the umpires about the game - it can't be just limited to appeals and protests, but also a request to get help from their partner, or a check swing appeal on a bases loaded walk-off walk...when they leave the field...when they enter the parking lot...when they get home?   

Whatever that line is, that's when the game is over, no?

[The Man in Blue]

20 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Isn't the implication that that game is over when the umpires leave the field, that's why you can't appeal?

 

Otherwise, where's the line to when the game officially ends?   Phone the umpire the next day and ask him to get help from his partner??

Yes but no ... it’s blurry.  The game already ended, the umpires leaving aren’t what caused that.

The game isn’t considered “still going” just because the umpires are still on the field.  However, if the game has ended (see rules for properly ending the game) and the umpires are still on the field, a proper appeal on that game ending play can still happen.  Once the umpires leave the field, the appeal can no longer happen.

I hope that made sense.  😁

[beerguy55]

1 minute ago, The Man in Blue said:

Yes but no ... it’s blurry.  The game already ended, the umpires leaving aren’t what caused that.

The game isn’t considered “still going” just because the umpires are still on the field.  However, if the game has ended (see rules for properly ending the game) and the umpires are still on the field, a proper appeal on that game ending play can still happen.  Once the umpires leave the field, the appeal can no longer happen.

I hope that made sense.  😁

Oh I get that...the game is over when it's over, or not - the game has "ended", but until the umps leave the field it's conditional and available to appeal or protest.

 

...the question is, how long after the end of the game, whether the umpires have left the field or not, can you wait to do a check swing appeal, or request an ump get to help from their partner on a call?

To me, NOTHING should be allowed once the umpires leave the field.

And it makes sense to me to allow the other "questions"/"requests for help" that could occur on any other safe/out/fair/foul/check swing call at any other point in the game, until the umps leave the field.

[SeeingEyeDog]

I don't have the resources or memory to absorb the LL rulebook...

I'm not sure I like a player appeal here...but, I'm going to assume since this is a LL question asked in mid-July that this was a high leverage game so, I'll allow it.

If this is April - late May...we're going for sno-cones.

~Dawg

[aaluck]

40 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Oh I get that...the game is over when it's over, or not - the game has "ended", but until the umps leave the field it's conditional and available to appeal or protest.

This is very similar situation to my hit batter on a 'bunt attempt'. Where the PU called a strike and we reversed it because from the field I could clearly see the kid was trying to get out of the way and not attempting to strike at the ball.

If I recall from that thread @Mattand others pointed out that once a strike is called there is no reversing that. Here we have a called strike three--no different from my situation--so I would say game over. 

Whether the left the filed may be irrelevant if it cannot be changed anyway?

[SH0102]

A strike can not be changed to a ball, but a strike call can definitely can be reversed for things the HPU missed like catchers interference, foul ball hit the dirt (called an out, can be reversed to foul ball), time had been given (I had a game once where I was BU in “A” two strikes on batter, a persons shade tent blew over the fence into the field so I yelled time as pitcher was starting but PU didn’t hear it and rang kid up, we replayed)

These are anomalies of course, but if BU “clearly” saw catchers interference, you absolutely can call it.  Though I’d rather see BU come offer this right away rather than wait for player to appeal

[agdz59]

26 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

If this is April - late May...we're going for sno-cones.

~Dawg

Which is the whole point of LL. At least thats what I was there for!

[HokieUmp]

5 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Otherwise, where's the line to when the game officially ends?   Phone the umpire the next day and ask him to get help from his partner??

I'm still umpiring games from 2006, based on the kind of ridiculous line of reasoning this thread has shown.....

Which is why I don't linger on the field - if they can't find you, they can't appeal to/argue with you.

[aaluck]

4 hours ago, SH0102 said:

A strike can not be changed to a ball, but a strike call can definitely can be reversed for things the HPU missed like catchers interference, foul ball hit the dirt (called an out, can be reversed to foul ball), time had been given (I had a game once where I was BU in “A” two strikes on batter, a persons shade tent blew over the fence into the field so I yelled time as pitcher was starting but PU didn’t hear it and rang kid up, we replayed)

I agree, but many don't... 

 

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, HokieUmp said:

I'm still umpiring games from 2006

Worst...hourly wage...ever.

[The Man in Blue]

Re-read the OP ... would like to revise my position to include: this is NOT an appeal play.

[Velho]

On 7/13/2021 at 5:43 AM, BDad said:

LL baseball Rule 4.19(d) refers to protesting an ineligible pitcher or player may be considered only if made to the umpire before the umpire(s) leave the field at the end of the game

Thanks. Nice catch. I missed that given the preamble of "ineligible pitcher". I was looking for general protest or game over. Would be nice if the LL iPad rulebook search function wasn't complete crap.

[Velho]

On 7/13/2021 at 8:19 AM, aaluck said:

This is very similar situation to my hit batter on a 'bunt attempt'. Where the PU called a strike and we reversed it because from the field I could clearly see the kid was trying to get out of the way and not attempting to strike at the ball.

An aside... I NAILED this in my District 9s LL championship game as PU. Batter squares up to bunt with bat out over the plate, pitch fully in the box, he opens up (ugh) with bat still out, and takes it in the chest. I come up to my BU in C, "Time! Nate, did he go?!"

Him: "No"

Me: "Hit by pitch, First base"

... and than had a 3 minute debate from the Defense that it should be a strike  ... sigh ...

[The Man in Blue]

Upon further review ... 

 

 

[aaluck]

16 hours ago, Velho said:

An aside... I NAILED this in my District 9s LL championship game as PU. Batter squares up to bunt with bat out over the plate, pitch fully in the box, he opens up (ugh) with bat still out, and takes it in the chest. I come up to my BU in C, "Time! Nate, did he go?!"

That's the way to do it.  BU can see what's going on whereas PU is usually completely blocked look at the back of the batter.