Stretch Position - no runners on

[Kyle Flanagan]

NFHS Rules.  No runners on.  Does a pitcher,  starting from the stretch position, need to come to a pause in his delivery?  If yes, what is the penalty? 

[agdz59]

2 minutes ago, Kyle Flanagan said:

NFHS Rules.  No runners on.  Does a pitcher,  starting from the stretch position, need to come to a pause in his delivery?  If yes, what is the penalty? 

Yes. Rule 6-1-3 which defines the set position. Penalty,if no runners on, is a ball. Dead ball when the infraction is called. 

My question: anybody out there call this? I have not seen it ever called in my limited experience. 

[maven]

Yes. It's called "coming set." Failing to come set is a balk in all codes with balks.

And yes, I call it, just like everybody else.

[Rich Ives]

6 minutes ago, maven said:

Yes. It's called "coming set." Failing to come set is a balk in all codes with balks.

And yes, I call it, just like everybody else.

Failing to stop with no runners is not a balk or an illegal pitch in OBR.

[Senor Azul]

OBR rule 5.07(a)(2) Comment tells us specifically that a pitcher does not have to come to a complete stop with the bases empty when using the Set Position. From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 6.34, p. 121):

With no runners on base, the pitcher is not required to come to a complete stop when using the Set Position; however, the pitcher is required to hold the ball in both hands in front of his body before initiating his delivery to pitch. In other words, the pitcher must bring his hands together before initiating his delivery, but he does not have to come to a complete stop…

2021 NCAA rule 9-1b Note 2: 

Note 2: With the bases unoccupied, the pitcher does not need to come to a complete and discernible stop.

[agdz59]

23 minutes ago, maven said:

Yes. It's called "coming set." Failing to come set is a balk in all codes with balks.

And yes, I call it, just like everybody else.

Not the balk. The ball on the illegal pitch.

[agdz59]

5 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

OBR rule 5.07(a)(2) Comment tells us specifically that a pitcher does not have to come to a complete stop with the bases empty when using the Set Position. From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 6.34, p. 121):

With no runners on base, the pitcher is not required to come to a complete stop when using the Set Position; however, the pitcher is required to hold the ball in both hands in front of his body before initiating his delivery to pitch. In other words, the pitcher must bring his hands together before initiating his delivery, but he does not have to come to a complete stop…

2021 NCAA rule 9-1b Note 2: 

Note 2: With the bases unoccupied, the pitcher does not need to come to a complete and discernible stop.

But he's asking about NFHS.

[agdz59]

21 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Failing to stop with no runners is not a balk or an illegal pitch in OBR.

Correct. The OP asks about NFHS.

[LRZ]

It's not at all unusual for answers to veer off into other codes. As long as citations are clear, as in Senor Azul's and Rich Ives's responses, I don't see a problem.

[Senor Azul]

You know, Mr. agdz59, I was going to pay you a compliment for getting the FED rule correct. But then you had to spoil the mood with some nonsense. It was Mr. maven who made the following statement—

“Failing to come set is a balk in all codes with balks.”

The OP to this thread was indeed asking about the FED ruling for a pitcher using the Set Position when there were no runners. So either Mr. maven did not recognize that fact or he truly believes that pitchers have to come to a complete stop even with no runners on at all levels of play—which is demonstrably wrong. Either way it was Mr. maven who introduced other rule sets to the discussion. Mr. Rich Ives and I both instantly knew that what was posted was wrong and we in good conscience could not let it go unchallenged. And then you act as if his nearly completely wrong statement is gospel and ask him to expound further. Then you insult me by insinuating that I can’t  read and comprehend well enough to understand that the OP Kyle Flanagan was asking about a FED ruling.

[Jimurray]

4 hours ago, agdz59 said:

Yes. Rule 6-1-3 which defines the set position. Penalty,if no runners on, is a ball. Dead ball when the infraction is called. 

My question: anybody out there call this? I have not seen it ever called in my limited experience. 

To answer your question, no one in my neck of the woods, which is adjacent to yours, calls this in FED and no one complains.

[The Man in Blue]

@Senor Azul … you OK?  Seems like you’ve been a bit cantankerous lately.  That’s my job.  😉

[Tborze]

“there were norunners. So either Mr. mavendid not recognize that fact“

I’m sure this is the case, because we all know you can’t balk without runners. 
I usually treat it like a quick pitch and correct it moving forward. I wouldn’t want anyone to think I was unaware of the rule as most coaches do. 

[maven]

Oh right: no runners. Sorry, didn't note that.

I'm pretty sure he was set.

[ArchAngel72]

Rule 2 – Section 3 – BALK

2-3-1 A balk is an illegal act committed by the pitcher with a runner(s) on base which entitles each runner to advance one base.

 

pretty sure this means you cannot commit a balk without runners on base..

/headscratch

 

 

[Senor Azul]

Mr. ArchAngel72, the point of this whole thread is that FED rules differently on this question. In high school baseball, if a pitcher chooses to use the Set Position with no runners on board, he must still come to a complete stop. If he does not, it is considered an illegal pitch and the penalty is a ball added to the count.

Here’s the official interpretation for this issue from the 2016 BRD (section 426, p. 284):

Official Interpretation:  Rumble:  The “discernible, clearly recognizable stop’ is required with or without runners.

Both NCAA and OBR actually spell out in their respective rule books that a complete stop is not required for a pitcher using the Set Position with no runners on.

[beerguy55]

 

On 7/6/2021 at 1:50 PM, agdz59 said:

My question: anybody out there call this? I have not seen it ever called in my limited experience.

Probably...there are also cops that ticket rolling stops at 2 AM with no other vehicles within 60 miles of the stop sign.

Appropriate judgment..."Looks like he stopped to me"

[LRZ]

Preventive officiating is your friend.