Verbal Call v Hand Signal

[Guest Gary]

An umpire calls a foul ball loudly but signals with his hand gesture a fair ball - which is it?

[noumpere]

Depends on the rules code and whether the ball was in the infield or outfield, and whether it was really fair or foul (in the umpire's judgment)

[agdz59]

10 minutes ago, Guest Gary said:

An umpire calls a foul ball loudly but signals with his hand gesture a fair ball - which is it?

both. 

[maven]

19 minutes ago, Guest Gary said:

An umpire calls a foul ball loudly but signals with his hand gesture a fair ball - which is it?

I suggest asking the umpire.

[MadMax]

13 hours ago, Guest Gary said:

An umpire calls a foul ball loudly but signals with his hand gesture a fair ball - which is it?

I read this as an umpire confused by what’s been fed to him or what he’s parroting after working with local colleagues. 

The complete mechanic of the Fair / Foul judgement, especially on fly balls or liners, is to mechanic Foul (which is the two hands-&-forearms up used to call “Time”), accompanied by the vocal “Foul” (to varying degrees of volume), followed promptly by a single hand-&-arm pointing indication as to which side of the foul line defined the ball as Foul. Umpires are taught / drilled on this in schools and camps; most umpires don’t bother to in everyday game use, often just doing the Foul mechanic and/or the vocal. 

Of course, the Fair signal is a silent mechanic of pointing the fair direction with the hand and arm. 

Methinks he is confusing them, likely because he didn’t fully grasp the purpose while at a clinic, or he was told to do this by a local colleague who picked this up from a clinic or tutorial. 

[LRZ]

Or maybe the umpire simply had one of those awkward moments where the brain sends mixed signals.

[Jimurray]

29 minutes ago, MadMax said:

I read this as an umpire confused by what’s been fed to him or what he’s parroting after working with local colleagues. 

The complete mechanic of the Fair / Foul judgement, especially on fly balls or liners, is to mechanic Foul (which is the two hands-&-forearms up used to call “Time”), accompanied by the vocal “Foul” (to varying degrees of volume), followed promptly by a single hand-&-arm pointing indication as to which side of the foul line defined the ball as Foul. Umpires are taught / drilled on this in schools and camps; most umpires don’t bother to in everyday game use, often just doing the Foul mechanic and/or the vocal. 

Of course, the Fair signal is a silent mechanic of pointing the fair direction with the hand and arm. 

Methinks he is confusing them, likely because he didn’t fully grasp the purpose while at a clinic, or he was told to do this by a local colleague who picked this up from a clinic or tutorial. 

I'm not sure the "following arm point" is taught at all clinics. I don't remember it from my "Desert Classic". I don't remember where I heard the story behind the mechanic but supposedly the NL umps used an arm point and the AL umps used the time signal. When they merged they also merged the signals. 

[aaluck]

16 hours ago, Guest Gary said:

An umpire calls a foul ball loudly but signals with his hand gesture a fair ball - which is it?

Its always foul.  You cannot un-ring that bell. Once the ball is called foul, regardless of where it is on or off the field it is foul.

[Biscuit]

1 hour ago, aaluck said:

Its always foul.  You cannot un-ring that bell. Once the ball is called foul, regardless of where it is on or off the field it is foul.

A ball that leaves the field (potential homerun) is the exception. NCAA may have a provision for changing a foul ball in the outfield to a fair ball, but I can't remember.

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, aaluck said:

Its always foul.  You cannot un-ring that bell. Once the ball is called foul, regardless of where it is on or off the field it is foul.

OBR has (had at least) a position that if no one reacted to the foul call then play on.

[Velho]

Woe be the ump you vocalizes "FAIR!" ... and all play comes to a stop. Said ump will only do it once though. 😉

[MadMax]

3 hours ago, Jimurray said:

I'm not sure the "following arm point" is taught at all clinics.

You’re very likely right. I do know it’s taught at the schools, and from those schools, I’m sure that some clinics want to pattern their curriculum after the schools, so it finds its way disseminated out to the landscape of umpiring.