The COVID-19 Thread - Discussion & Cancellations

[umpstu]

3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

 

^^This^^

At this point it's rec ball - recklessness aside, they're just doing this to get the kids out and active at this point.  You're gonna get what you're gonna get.

Anyone who complains or argues about anything related to umpiring for the next six months should be fined, suspended and shot.

Gonna be a run on ammo 

[Lou B]

Sorry, don't have the Link but there is a story on Yahoo Sports about Youth Baseball opening in Missouri.

Two baseball complexes outside St. Louis are expecting 47 teams for a Tournament this weekend (being Hosted by Game Time Tournaments).

They are putting in some special rules in an attempt to have some "social distancing".

[Mad Mike]

We have been told baseball will be back up and running in June of this year.

Has anybody come across any written document outlining precautions to be taken during the upcoming season for umpires?

I expect our members (myself included) to have questions on what is mandated vs. recommended, i.e. plate vs. base umpire wearing a covid mask for instance. 

How do we handle a ball where a pitcher licks his fingers and then touches the ball?

How do we handle a foul ball that has come back in. Numerous people have handled it. Sanitize our hands between innings when we get a drink?

Anything out there would be appreciated. You are welcome to PM me if you have any information to share.

[umpstu]

4 hours ago, Lou B said:

Sorry, don't have the Link but there is a story on Yahoo Sports about Youth Baseball opening in Missouri.

Two baseball complexes outside St. Louis are expecting 47 teams for a Tournament this weekend (being Hosted by Game Time Tournaments).

They are putting in some special rules in an attempt to have some "social distancing".

One of the fields they were using was for softball in New Melle, Mo.  I drove by and it was in between innings and the umpires were standing next to each other and the dugouts were packed with players.  Parents were in the stands.  It's Missouri, so no way you'll show you're weak by distancing or, God forbid, wearing a mask.  And I am not making this up.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/youth-baseball-tournament-a-sign-of-strange-new-normal/article_fd43d2f6-f0e8-52fe-bf2f-16632750fdf7.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

[beerguy55]

9 hours ago, umpstu said:

One of the fields they were using was for softball in New Melle, Mo.  I drove by and it was in between innings and the umpires were standing next to each other and the dugouts were packed with players.  Parents were in the stands.  It's Missouri, so no way you'll show you're weak by distancing or, God forbid, wearing a mask.  And I am not making this up.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/youth-baseball-tournament-a-sign-of-strange-new-normal/article_fd43d2f6-f0e8-52fe-bf2f-16632750fdf7.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

This is why a million Americans will die of COVID by year end...I know I know...the projections say that it will be about 150k by beginning of August (don't be surprised if this number is passed by July 4...or Father's Day)...the best part is people will point and laugh at me with glee if it turns out "only" 300k  Americans die by Christmas.

Wear the F*#King mask.

Too many people think freedom means "you're not the boss of me"....this is 50x worse than the seat belt debate.

[kylehutson]

11 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

This is why a million Americans will die of COVID by year end...I know I know...the projections say that it will be about 150k by beginning of August (don't be surprised if this number is passed by July 4...or Father's Day)...the best part is people will point and laugh at me with glee if it turns out "only" 300k  Americans die by Christmas.

Wear the F*#King mask.

Too many people think freedom means "you're not the boss of me"....this is 50x worse than the seat belt debate.

Interestingly enough, I had an assigner text me this morning asking if I'd work a tourney in two weeks. I said "yes, but I'm not wearing a mask". Why? Because I don't think I can do my job properly with a mask. Anybody that thinks they can - go for it, I'm certainly not going to stop you. Am I putting myself at some level of risk? Yep. Is that an acceptable level of risk? I think so (or else I wouldn't have agreed to work it). Might my position on that change after a couple of tournaments? Yes - and I'll likely refuse to work at all in that case.

I'm really curious about hospitalization rates among those that attended those tournaments in MO last week. That very well might change my calculus on the risk.

[beerguy55]

17 minutes ago, kylehutson said:

Interestingly enough, I had an assigner text me this morning asking if I'd work a tourney in two weeks. I said "yes, but I'm not wearing a mask". Why? Because I don't think I can do my job properly with a mask. Anybody that thinks they can - go for it, I'm certainly not going to stop you. Am I putting myself at some level of risk? Yep. Is that an acceptable level of risk? I think so (or else I wouldn't have agreed to work it). Might my position on that change after a couple of tournaments? Yes - and I'll likely refuse to work at all in that case.

I'm really curious about hospitalization rates among those that attended those tournaments in MO last week. That very well might change my calculus on the risk.

Again - the mask isn't for you...in fact, unless it's medical/industrial grade, a mask won't protect you.  And even then you're gonna want goggles, face shield to go with it.

The mask is for everyone else...remember - you can have the virus, never know you have it, and be contagious for two weeks.   The mask will help, greatly, prevent you from passing the virus on to others.

To your question - unfortunately, you won't know for two-three weeks.    

[umpstu]

31 minutes ago, kylehutson said:

Interestingly enough, I had an assigner text me this morning asking if I'd work a tourney in two weeks. I said "yes, but I'm not wearing a mask". Why? Because I don't think I can do my job properly with a mask. Anybody that thinks they can - go for it, I'm certainly not going to stop you. Am I putting myself at some level of risk? Yep. Is that an acceptable level of risk? I think so (or else I wouldn't have agreed to work it). Might my position on that change after a couple of tournaments? Yes - and I'll likely refuse to work at all in that case.

I'm really curious about hospitalization rates among those that attended those tournaments in MO last week. That very well might change my calculus on the risk.

Wear the mask.

[yawetag]

9 minutes ago, umpstu said:

Wear the mask.

Or don't officiate.

I'll extend this to umpires agreeing to officiate. We can all wait a few more months, right?

[kylehutson]

22 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Again - the mask isn't for you...in fact, unless it's medical/industrial grade, a mask won't protect you.  And even then you're gonna want goggles, face shield to go with it.

The mask is for everyone else...remember - you can have the virus, never know you have it, and be contagious for two weeks.   The mask will help, greatly, prevent you from passing the virus on to others.

To your question - unfortunately, you won't know for two-three weeks.    

Oh I get it.

And the reason for all the shutdowns and social distancing is not to prevent the spread but to slow it down such that it doesn't overwhelm the hospital system. The hospital system in my state is quite under-whelmed right now. If I were in NYC or a similar situation where being in close proximity with others very frequently, I would likely have a different stance.

If a business I want to go to mandates that I wear a mask, I'll wear a mask. Their store, their rules. But their effectiveness of that is still VERY questionable. WHO currently says “The wide use of masks by healthy people in the community setting is not supported by current evidence and carries uncertainties and critical risks.”[1] I think masks are mostly virtue signalling (i.e. "look how good I am being, I am following the rules"), and/or the mindset of "we have to do something, this is something, therefore we must do it". Couple the effectiveness with my ability to do my job (possible movement of the mask, leading to blocked vision; decreased airflow; discomfort), and I'm making that choice.

It's possible to be very serious about this disease and still make decisions that others may not. I'm not for "just ignore everything". I'm having to make decisions for myself. Others can make different decisions, and that's fine. If somebody is obviously ill and going out in public, that's a whole different story.

 

On another related note, I saw on Facebook this weekend that American Legion is now cancelled nation-wide for the whole season. I haven't seen a news article to back that up yet, though. Anyone?

[beerguy55]

1 minute ago, kylehutson said:

“The wide use of masks by healthy people in the community setting is not supported by current evidence and carries uncertainties and critical risks.

Key word in bold - you wearing a mask won't prevent you from getting sick (or will do very little).

If you are infected, especially if you don't know you're infected, it WILL help prevent you from spreading it to others...especially when you're in a situation where you can't stay six feet from others.

[kylehutson]

3 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Key word in bold - you wearing a mask won't prevent you from getting sick (or will do very little).

If you are infected, especially if you don't know you're infected, it WILL help prevent you from spreading it to others...especially when you're in a situation where you can't stay six feet from others.

Read the entire article I cited.

Here it is again. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/new-study-questions-the-effectiveness-of-masks-against-sars-cov-2

[beerguy55]

45 minutes ago, kylehutson said:

Read the entire article I cited.

Here it is again. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/new-study-questions-the-effectiveness-of-masks-against-sars-cov-2

Read it...and have read the studies that show the opposite.  All have deficiencies in their methods.  (eg. the study to which you link requires the mask wearer to cough...you can spread the virus without coughing, and a cough/sneeze has significantly more force)....the study also didn't measure if the mask changes the trajectory or distance the droplets spread with and without the mask.

And none of the studies have enough data to be outside margins of error...however, the collection of 64 different studies of coronaviruses in general indicate that masks reduce the spread.  Could this particular coronavirus be an outlier?...sure.  Is that justification to simply not wear a mask?  No.  Likewise, if someone came out and told me that seat belts don't help if you are driving a specific model of car, i'm still going to wear a seat belt in that car.

Though the numbers in China are probably underreported, part of their clamp down of the virus was virtually everyone wearing masks.  If you don't like China's numbers, South Korea's are more trustworthy...mask culture played a significant role in reducing the spread.   And South Korean baseball players, and umpires, are wearing masks.  Any statement that a mask prevents an umpire from doing their job is specious, and just an excuse.

[aaluck]

kylehutson and Beerguy55, if you don't want to wear a mask that is your right and I do not disagree. I probably will wear a mask. BUT please do not cite the WHO as a credible source of anything--and I don't think that is political, if so I apologize in advance.

I am happy that baseball has started in your area.  Hopefully it will here soon as well.  As stated before, I'm ready to get back to as normal as possible, with extra precautions.  Beerguy55, I'm not saying it is the right thing, or the smart thing.  I'm saying I believe it is the necessary thing.

[kylehutson]

1 hour ago, aaluck said:

BUT please do not cite the WHO as a credible source of anything--and I don't think that is political, if so I apologize in advance.

I think anti-WHO sentiment is political, but be that as it may, how about this one, then, from the University of Minnesota? https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/data-do-not-back-cloth-masks-limit-covid-19-experts-say

"cloth masks will do little, if anything, to limit spread of the disease."

And yet again, the point is not to kill off this virus. Eventually, we're probably all going to get it. My state has LOTS more beds and ICU beds and ventilators than they are projected to need, at least in the short term. https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/kansas

[LRZ]

A hospital bed and all that hi-tech equipment may be of little benefit if your lungs and other organs are irreparably damaged by the virus. If risks are minimized, in part because of the availability of treatment options, people may well die, even with hospitalizations. And those deaths could perhaps be avoided by being patient, even with some economic pain, and taking fewer risks. There is still so much that is unknown about this disease.

Look at this, for one point of view: https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

[kylehutson]

9 minutes ago, LRZ said:

Look at this, for one point of view: https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

Bad link?

[LRZ]

Does this work, Kyle? https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

[The Short Umpire]

The last few posts about masks and my extra free time to watch ejection videos on youtube have me thinking about MLB possibly getting stricter about an umpire’s personal space. Right now players and coaches gets fines and such for physical contact with an umpire, but could those fines be furthered to cover situations when umpires are getting spit on because of the forcefulness of an argument? Could the CBA ask that in return for umpires wearing masks, that the league fine anyone who comes within 6 feet of an umpire during a confrontation? Like I said, just wondering as I fall down the rabbit hole of youtube.

[yawetag]

1 hour ago, kylehutson said:

My state has LOTS more beds and ICU beds and ventilators than they are projected to need, at least in the short term. https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/kansas

That "short term" is based solely on the fact that social distancing might actually be helping.

Take that away and the short-term needs increase exponentially.

[kylehutson]

51 minutes ago, LRZ said:

Does this work, Kyle? https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

Yep, it does. Looks like outdoors is a good place to be.

"only a single outbreak has been reported from an outdoor environment (less than 0.3% of traced infections)."

[ousafe]

@kylehutson I think about this from two perspectives: as an umpire, but also as a parent of two youth league players.  And that leads me to two different opinions.  As an umpire, I say yuck to wearing a mask.  As a parent, I say "my kid isn't playing if the umpire doesn't wear a mask."  So will I wear a mask?  Definitely yes.

[kylehutson]

4 minutes ago, yawetag said:

That "short term" is based solely on the fact that social distancing might actually be helping.

Take that away and the short-term needs increase exponentially.

I understand that. That's why I'll be watching news from the tourney in MO. 

[kylehutson]

5 minutes ago, ousafe said:

@kylehutson I think about this from two perspectives: as an umpire, but also as a parent of two youth league players.  And that leads me to two different opinions.  As an umpire, I say yuck to wearing a mask.  As a parent, I say "my kid isn't playing if the umpire doesn't wear a mask."  So will I wear a mask?  Definitely yes.

I completely get that. That's why I put it out there early. If that's a requirement, they can find somebody else to work it, and I'm fine with that, too.

[aaluck]

18 hours ago, Mad Mike said:

How do we handle a foul ball that has come back in.

What I have seen on various videos, including the one above, is a bucket of balls behind the mound.  Balls are sanitized to start the game, when they leave the field and between innings replaced into the bucket.  Umps do not touch them.

Umpires are not the problem.  We can EASILY stay 6 feet from everyone and with the balls in a bucket I would say you have a much better chance of getting it in the grocery store than umping a game like this.