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The Man in Blue

The COVID-19 Thread - Discussion & Cancellations

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As of last night my son received a message saying that our "travel teams" and "perfect game" are looking at May 15 as a possible restart date.  Obviously, games may take a while to start but we'll see.  Have mixed emotions about this...

From what I have read and seen young folks SEEM to be very resilient to this disease--I know that they live with older folks that may not be, but at some point we have to see what happens as we open back up.  I'm 52 and I know he could possibly bring it home from a game--again back to my mixed emotions.

I will say that (my .02) we cannot live like this for 12-18 months--we cannot live like this for the next 4-6 months.  We will all be bankrupt, our states and local government will be bankrupt.  Crime and suicide will spike.  When folks cannot feed their families or pay their bills they will resort to desperate measures--even otherwise perfect, law abiding citizens.

People are losing their jobs. When you lose your job you lose your insurance. When you lose your insurance you cannot afford medications that cost $1000s of dollars, in some cases, that you (and your family members) need to live, or live healthy.  I know that my wife's blood pressure alone is over $2,000 per month without insurance, insulin costs well over $1,000 a month, type 1 diabetic folks need that to live... on and on and on.

Finally, the "off switch" was simple--everyone stay at home.  The "on switch" will take months, if not years.  Think of hurricane Katrina.  It took all of one day (actually a couple of hours) to destroy 1/2 of New Orleans. What they did rebuild took years and as of today's date it's still not completely rebuilt.  If we don't take some steps toward opening there will be nothing to open up to, or for.  People with no money or jobs don't buy things, eat out, have cars to put gas in (or afford gas) or any basic surplus cash to do anything. 

Here is an example of what we are looking at......

In most countries of the world, recovery from the Great Depression began in 1933. In the U.S., recovery began in early 1933, but the U.S. did not return to 1929 GNP for over a decade and still had an unemployment rate of about 15% in 1940, albeit down from the high of 25% in 1933.

Take a city like Auburn, Alabama just 30 miles from me. IF there is no fall on-campus classes and college football that city WILL crumble. Every apartment (built specifically for students) will be vacant, every restaurant will have no eaters,  every hotel (over capacity on a football weekend) will be empty, every eatery on the campus will be useless, the list goes on.  Then all the remaining college sports will be canceled because without the football revenue, they cannot exist. I believe there MAY be two college baseball programs that make money, LSU being one of them.

I know this may be hard to believe, but I'm not trying to be negative.  I just think we have to start taking some aggressive steps to reopen.

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2 hours ago, aaluck said:

From what I have read and seen young folks SEEM to be very resilient to this disease--I know that they live with older folks that may not be, but at some point we have to see what happens as we open back up.

I'll give two points against this:

1) Not all young folks are resilient. Many have died.

2) It's not your kid or you and your spouse. It's the dozens of people you interact with before you're symptomatic, and the dozens they then interact with.

Let me ask you this: If you accidentally ran a red light and t-boned another vehicle, killing the driver, would you be the same? Would you think that the trip you were taking to the restaurant worth the person you killed? This is no different - your actions could kill others.

You say "at some point we have to see what happens as we open back up." If we opened back up to what it was two months ago, it will lead to exactly what we were trying to avoid: a huge increase in cases. While the slow opening that many states are beginning will lead to an increase, there's a reason large gatherings and many services are still closed.

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17 minutes ago, yawetag said:

I'll give two points against this:

1) Not all young folks are resilient. Many have died.

2) It's not your kid or you and your spouse. It's the dozens of people you interact with before you're symptomatic, and the dozens they then interact with.

I agree absolutely with everything you have said. And yes, I would feel terrible to cause harm to someone else. But I also believe that unfortunately that is going to happen to all 330 million of us at some point.

My only point is that IF this is going to be with us, as they say it will, for at least the next 8 months or more, we have to start to get back to "normal".  I guess what I'm saying is that this is going to effect every one of us unless we ALL (not 90% doing what they should) sit at home for the next year and that is not an option. Just look to NY City, they have been on lockdown for over 3 weeks and they are still reporting over 1000 new cases a DAY. That's 30,000 per month.

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4 minutes ago, aaluck said:

I agree absolutely with everything you have said. And yes, I would feel terrible to cause harm to someone else. But I also believe that unfortunately that is going to happen to all 330 million of us at some point.

My only point is that IF this is going to be with us, as they say it will, for at least the next 8 months or more, we have to start to get back to "normal".  I guess what I'm saying is that this is going to effect every one of us unless we ALL (not 90% doing what they should) sit at home for the next year and that is not an option. Just look to NY City, they have been on lockdown for over 3 weeks and they are still reporting over 1000 new cases a DAY. That's 30,000 per month.

And the rate is decreasing.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

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18 minutes ago, aaluck said:

I agree absolutely with everything you have said. And yes, I would feel terrible to cause harm to someone else. But I also believe that unfortunately that is going to happen to all 330 million of us at some point.

My only point is that IF this is going to be with us, as they say it will, for at least the next 8 months or more, we have to start to get back to "normal".  I guess what I'm saying is that this is going to effect every one of us unless we ALL (not 90% doing what they should) sit at home for the next year and that is not an option. Just look to NY City, they have been on lockdown for over 3 weeks and they are still reporting over 1000 new cases a DAY. That's 30,000 per month.

Just look at New York City...imagine what things would be like it it was NOT locked down?   You open things up too fast and it will be NYCx100.

Those best case scenario projections for deaths by August are going to be surpassed before May...and that's with 95% of the country on some kind of lockdown....it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what will happen if it opens to quickly.

Keep in mind that even in New York early indications are that only 15-20% of New Yorkers have been exposed...imagine if the other 80% had been...we need to spread that 80% over as long as period as feasible.

Normal doesn't exist anymore...we ain't going back to what we were doing...that wasn't working.

 

There will be a new normal.  In a month or two things will SLOWLY start opening up...and that will only accelerate if there is either a treatment or a vaccine...or if there's evidence that we've achieved herd immunity...and we'll be lucky if we achieve that in 18 months.   As well, we'll have to act quickly and close areas down if there's any indication of an outbreak. If we open up and just try to race to the herd immunity finish line, millions of Americans will die before the end of the year.  And the health system will collapse.   

Unfortunately, the governor of Georgia has provided us with a sick test case - we'll know in two weeks how disastrous his decision was.

 

It will happen...but it will have to be slow...with checks and balances to stop and start when necessary.

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On 4/27/2020 at 3:00 PM, beerguy55 said:

Keep in mind that even in New York early indications are that only 15-20% of New Yorkers have been exposed...imagine if the other 80% had been...we need to spread that 80% over as long as period as feasible.

This is my whole point and where I guess we disagree--feasible.  First, I do agree that we need testing 100 times better than right now and the old normal will not be seen again.  That being said 18 months is not feasible, and I certainly hope you are not suggesting that we continue like this for the next 18 months.  

Waiting for herd immunity is not feasible. It is especially not feasible if we are keeping folks away from each other--cannot achieve this with folks not interacting on a large scale.

Every one of us has a different situation. Some have the money to hide inside for 18 months. Some can work from home for 18 months--assuming there will be any work left. BUT 98% of us cannot.

Also, you are spot on with GA. I'm really hoping you are incorrect, but we will learn something.

My point is that 95% of everyone I speak with or see protesting are ready to get back to "normal" and "take their chances", may not be smart, but it is what it is as they cannot feed themselves or pay bills.  It seams far more feasible for the other 5% to stay at home for the next 18 months and have no contact with anyone, thus completely elimination their chance of contracting this disease. 

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41 minutes ago, aaluck said:

This is my whole point and where I guess we disagree--feasible.  First, I do agree that we need testing 100 times better than right now and the old normal will not be seen again.  That being said 18 months is not feasible, and I certainly hope you are not suggesting that we continue like this for the next 18 months.  

Waiting for herd immunity is not feasible. It is especially not feasible if we are keeping folks away from each other--cannot achieve this with folks not interacting on a large scale.

Every one of us has a different situation. Some have the money to hide inside for 18 months. Some can work from home for 18 months--assuming there will be any work left. BUT 98% of us cannot.

Also, you are spot on with GA. I'm really hoping you are incorrect, but we will learn something.

My point is that 95% of everyone I speak with or see protesting are ready to get back to "normal" and "take their chances", may not be smart, but it is what it is as they cannot feed themselves or pay bills.  It seams far more feasible for the other 5% to stay at home for the next 18 months and have no contact with anyone, thus completely illuminating their chance of contracting this disease. 

Let me start by saying....I hope I'm wrong.

We need to open up - there's no question.   It just needs to be done slowly and carefully, in stages, observed appropriately....with checks and balances to shut down here and there (not everywhere) when outbreaks recur.  There will be rules and standards. There will be some kind of surveillance - maybe not as invasive as China has done, but it will be there.  South Korea is probably the best model to follow.  Oppression aside, we can learn from China too.

Can we keep bars and restaurants and nail salons closed for 18 months...no.  But they will have to have rules...and it may mean lower capacity, and masks, surveillance, and other things.   It may also mean we need to depend on the gov't safety net, and incur higher taxes at a later date.   This is one of the few scenarios where we truly want the socialist safety net...where, for the greater good, the governments asks/tells us to stay home and stop working...and right now, our economy is (mostly) down to what people need...the "want" side of the economy is almost stopped...and John Q Taxpayer needs to pay to pause that side of the economy.   At the same time, other jobs are opening up...retail, grocery, delivery, manufacturing, etc.

This thing is 5-10 times deadlier than the flu...and at least 5-10 times as contagious.   Letting it run at full speed until we reach herd immunity won't work.  

I may be willing to take a chance on my own health...that's my choice to make...what I'm not willing to take a chance on is my having the disease, not knowing I have the disease, and spreading it to unknown numbers of people.   I have very little interest in being put in a building where 1 in 100 of us will die.  I have even less interest in being one of the other 99 that each spreads it to 10-20 people, or more, over the next week.

So, yeah, fortunately I can work from home.  And, I can minimize my time outside the home to a couple of hours a week for groceries.  Frankly, I'm spending easily $2000 less per month than normal.   And , yes, if I did lose my job, I could live for several months without pay and not miss a bill payment...it would suck, and it would set back my retirement, but I could do it.  So, yes, maybe it's easy for me to say as i don't live pay to pay..though I also know what some of my closest friends and family are going through in trying to get through this without working.  Make no mistake, I want to see the economy open up...but not tomorrow.
 

So when I go out I wear a mask (to protect others, not me), keep my distance, etc, etc.   THAT will be the reality for the next 12-18 months.  And there are going to be businesses that will suffer because of it - especially the physical distancing part...movie theaters, sports, music concerts, Disneyland - if they can't reduce capacity, they're going to have to have measures to inspect everyone coming in, and going out, and there will be standards to follow.   I suspect they'll be mandated to reduce capacity.   

So, yeah, sports without fans could be a reality for a year.  Don't be surprised to see events like Mardi Gras 2021 cancelled.  Oktoberfest 2020 is cancelled...don't be surprised if 2021 is as well...and any other similar "mass spreader" events....Comic Con anywhere, conventions...St. Patrick's Day parade, etc.   The rescheduled 2021 Olympics are actually in jeopardy, believe it or not.   You'll hear about LLWS within the next couple of weeks. It will be cancelled.   You're going to be voting by mail in November.  Otherwise, imagine voting lineups where everyone is six feet apart...and wearing a mask.   Even if the economy is mostly opened by the end of summer, those big crowd events will not happen any time soon.   I doubt the borders are opened this year.

The reality is, if no vaccine is found, three million Americans will be killed by this disease, if they all get exposed to it.   As to what our health care system can handle...in determining over what period of time are we willing to kill that many people...keep in mind that less than three million Americans die every year TOTAL.  The health care system is built with that in mind.  Not doubling that over night.  If you go too fast, it will be disastrous...the numbers you see today in New York will look like a picnic.

So, with all that in mind...come up with a solution that starts the motor running, but doesn't put everyone in the hospital at the same time.  That's what the different officials are trying to do.

I've never wanted to be more wrong about anything in my life.

Otherwise, I can bring out my cold-hearted number-only side and remind us that the greatest period of relative wealth followed the Black Death, when 1/4 to 1/3 of the world's population died over a period of seven years....so, step on the gas.

 

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15 hours ago, aaluck said:

My point is that 95% of everyone I speak with or see protesting are ready to get back to "normal" and "take their chances", may not be smart, but it is what it is as they cannot feed themselves or pay bills.

Of all the protesters I saw, they had no care about others. Not one sign I saw said "I want to get back to work." They were variations on "I want a haircut" or "I want businesses to be open again."

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1 hour ago, yawetag said:

Of all the protesters I saw, they had no care about others. Not one sign I saw said "I want to get back to work." They were variations on "I want a haircut" or "I want businesses to be open again."

Two things.

1) I'm not sure that the signs are really what they're protesting for, it's just the sensationalist low hanging fruit. . I know a lot of people who are at the point of saying, the lockdown had a purpose, but we've past that point. If the cure continues, it will be worse than the disease. (I'm not endorsing that position, but that's what I've seen.) Plus, "I want businesses open" sounds like "I want to go back to work" with extra steps to me

2) Not everyone who is protesting is protesting for the same reasons or in the same manner. In Michigan, the majority of the protesters were in their cars honking their horns, not demonstrating with signs. 

Additionally, they aren't protesting for the same level of restriction removal. Some were/are (stupidly) protesting for a complete and immediate removal of all restrictions. Using Michigan as an example again, some just want to be able to go follow the stay at home order at their lake house their family has owned for generations. I'd guess that there probably is a higher concentration of the former in the people protesting in person than the general protesting population, but 

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On 4/27/2020 at 2:32 PM, aaluck said:

I agree absolutely with everything you have said. And yes, I would feel terrible to cause harm to someone else. But I also believe that unfortunately that is going to happen to all 330 million of us at some point.

My only point is that IF this is going to be with us, as they say it will, for at least the next 8 months or more, we have to start to get back to "normal".  I guess what I'm saying is that this is going to effect every one of us unless we ALL (not 90% doing what they should) sit at home for the next year and that is not an option. Just look to NY City, they have been on lockdown for over 3 weeks and they are still reporting over 1000 new cases a DAY. That's 30,000 per month.

NYC lives on top of each other. 

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On 4/27/2020 at 3:00 PM, beerguy55 said:

Just look at New York City...imagine what things would be like it it was NOT locked down?   You open things up too fast and it will be NYCx100.

Those best case scenario projections for deaths by August are going to be surpassed before May...and that's with 95% of the country on some kind of lockdown....it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what will happen if it opens to quickly.

Keep in mind that even in New York early indications are that only 15-20% of New Yorkers have been exposed...imagine if the other 80% had been...we need to spread that 80% over as long as period as feasible.

Normal doesn't exist anymore...we ain't going back to what we were doing...that wasn't working.

 

There will be a new normal.  In a month or two things will SLOWLY start opening up...and that will only accelerate if there is either a treatment or a vaccine...or if there's evidence that we've achieved herd immunity...and we'll be lucky if we achieve that in 18 months.   As well, we'll have to act quickly and close areas down if there's any indication of an outbreak. If we open up and just try to race to the herd immunity finish line, millions of Americans will die before the end of the year.  And the health system will collapse.   

Unfortunately, the governor of Georgia has provided us with a sick test case - we'll know in two weeks how disastrous his decision was.

 

It will happen...but it will have to be slow...with checks and balances to stop and start when necessary.

You , my friend, have hit the nail squarely on the head.  Why people don't understand the severity of the coronavirus is beyond me.

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On 4/28/2020 at 7:06 AM, yawetag said:

Of all the protesters I saw, they had no care about others. Not one sign I saw said "I want to get back to work." They were variations on "I want a haircut" or "I want businesses to be open again."

Or the tried and true, Don't Tread on Me.  But it's ok for me to tread on you.

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On 4/28/2020 at 9:10 AM, Biscuit said:

Two things.

1) I'm not sure that the signs are really what they're protesting for, it's just the sensationalist low hanging fruit. . I know a lot of people who are at the point of saying, the lockdown had a purpose, but we've past that point. If the cure continues, it will be worse than the disease. (I'm not endorsing that position, but that's what I've seen.) Plus, "I want businesses open" sounds like "I want to go back to work" with extra steps to me

2) Not everyone who is protesting is protesting for the same reasons or in the same manner. In Michigan, the majority of the protesters were in their cars honking their horns, not demonstrating with signs. S

Additionally, they aren't protesting for the same level of restriction removal. Some were/are (stupidly) protesting for a complete and immediate removal of all restrictions. Using Michigan as an example again, some just want to be able to go follow the stay at home order at their lake house their family has owned for generations. I'd guess that there probably is a higher concentration of the former in the people protesting in person than the general protesting population, but 

Storming the capital with their guns slung over their shoulder is not honking the horn in their cars.  Those people are the look at me I'm a tough guy with a gun crowd.  Same group who think that just because you put a flag up at your house means you're obviously a bigger patriot then the guy without the flag.

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12 hours ago, umpstu said:

Storming the capital with their guns slung over their shoulder is not honking the horn in their cars.  Those people are the look at me I'm a tough guy with a gun crowd.  Same group who think that just because you put a flag up at your house means you're obviously a bigger patriot then the guy without the flag.

This is a seperate incident that happened after the one I was referring too. Different set of circumstances, different potential motives. 

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That is the rub with these protests ... they really are not protests of the current situation, they are protests of the world that has put us in this situation.  @yawetag said it earlier and it has become my new mantra.  We cannot go back to "normal" because "normal" is the problem that led us here.

 

hardmaru on Twitter: "Graffiti reads: “We can't return to normal ...

 

 

For some it is a cry for help because their business was already on the bubble, but this is the straw that broke the camel's back so it is what they are blaming.  It wasn't the lockdown that put them in that spot in the first place.  But that is how they see it.

For some is a chance to hop in front of a camera to flaunt their Second Amendment rights while they act like a bully.  The only restriction I have seen on the Second Amendment during this whole thing was the Jackson, MS mayor who put a temporary prohibition on OPEN carry in the city due to an outbreak of gun violence.  So why do you need to carry your assault weapon to your capitol building?  But that is how they see it.

For some it is a chance to push their own racist political agenda and hide under the shroud of their own personal Civil Rights.  Ask the Auschwitz fool in Chicago, that is how she saw it.

For some it is a protest that they work in a system that puts them in the position of being one paycheck away from destitution.  It isn't the lockdown that will force them into losing everything, it was the system that led to that spot.  It isn't a WANT to get back to work, it is a perceived NEED because the system has failed them and continues to fail them by promising protections that are being gobbled up by those who don't need them.  But that is how they see it.    

 

Anyway you slice it, it has not seemed to me that a single protester was there for a greater cause though ... they all seem to be there for their own self interest; the rest of the world be damned.  Although "normal" is what led them there, they only see the personal inconvenience of the now.

 

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37 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

That is the rub with these protests ... they really are not protests of the current situation, they are protests of the world that has put us in this situation.  @yawetag said it earlier and it has become my new mantra.  We cannot go back to "normal" because "normal" is the problem that led us here.

How can you say that "normal is the problem that led us here?" Is it normal that a novel virus spread around the world? No. Is it normal that goverments shut down much of commerce? No. What does the eff that statement even mean? People have a right to protest, even if it is something contrary to what you believe.

hardmaru on Twitter: "Graffiti reads: “We can't return to normal ...

 

 

For some it is a cry for help because their business was already on the bubble, but this is the straw that broke the camel's back so it is what they are blaming.  It wasn't the lockdown that put them in that spot in the first place.  But that is how they see it.

Put them in what spot? Obviously you've never run a business. How can most business' afford to shut down for months? What if you were a startup? You can't expect most small business' to be able to survive for an extended period of time with absolutely no income. It absolutly is the lockdown that has put them in that spot. Yeah it's fine for the people like my wife that gets paid no matter what, but what about others with no income? How would you feel if the govenment just took away your income or assets? You can't expect most young people to have a nest egg to support them for months at a time. Seriously, try and understand the totality of the events and not just your personal situation.

For some is a chance to hop in front of a camera to flaunt their Second Amendment rights while they act like a bully.  The only restriction I have seen on the Second Amendment during this whole thing was the Jackson, MS mayor who put a temporary prohibition on OPEN carry in the city due to an outbreak of gun violence.  So why do you need to carry your assault weapon to your capitol building?  But that is how they see it.

The outbreak of violence had nothing to do with open carry. It was an uptic in gang violence, that has plagued Jackson. Do a modicum of research and read some articles. Also, crime has continued in Jackson despite the lockdown. Even more reasons for citizens to be able to defend themselves if they so choose. Those people feel like the Mayor used the crisis to restrict gun rights. That's how they feel and I respect their rights. As long as they are legally protesting, what the eff is the problem? It is their right and just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong. Many people that talk about being openminded and tolerant are often times anything but.

https://www.wlbt.com/2020/04/26/jackson-mayor-suspends-open-carry-law-amid-covid-pandemic-receives-backlash/

And why do you want to carry your weapon to the capitol? Because you can. And BTW, there is no such thing as an "assault weapon"  for civilian use. Again, do some research. I don't care if you're for or against guns, I only care about mis-information.

For some it is a chance to push their own racist political agenda and hide under the shroud of their own personal Civil Rights.  Ask the Auschwitz fool in Chicago, that is how she saw it.

Both side do this. If you're going to critize one, criticize both.

For some it is a protest that they work in a system that puts them in the position of being one paycheck away from destitution.  It isn't the lockdown that will force them into losing everything, it was the system that led to that spot.  It isn't a WANT to get back to work, it is a perceived NEED because the system has failed them and continues to fail them by promising protections that are being gobbled up by those who don't need them.  But that is how they see it. 

Again, if you don't have an income and are becoming destitute, your position will change dramatically.  Try to understand how those in this position feel and what they are supposed to do about it. What are the steps you can recommend to help those people out? When government comes in and effectively takes away your livelyhood, yes you will feel like the system has failed you. 

Anyway you slice it, it has not seemed to me that a single protester was there for a greater cause though ... they all seem to be there for their own self interest; the rest of the world be damned.  Although "normal" is what led them there, they only see the personal inconvenience of the now.

Protesting is an absolute right and should be defended whether you agree with the protest or not. Doesn't matter what their interests are. Our constututional rights are some of the most important rights we have as a free society. In order to maintain that freedom, we must protect them at all costs. I worry about how the governments are passing mandates and orders restricting our rights, in clear violation of the constitution and other state laws.

I usually try and stay out of political debates, but there are some issues I have with some of your statements. I may not agree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it. JMHO

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I have yet to see a mandate or order that is unConstitutional.

The Constitution, as originally written, did not place many restrictions on what states could do regarding individual rights. It was only after application of the 14th Amendment that individual rights began to have protection against state infringement, and even fundamental rights are not sacrosanct if there is a compelling state interest to take action that infringes upon them. Many rights aren't fundamental and do not have that level of protection, and many rights that people think exist simply don't.

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Most people don't understand, or know, the difference between a Right and a Privilege. If they spent more time digging up facts instead of jumping to conclusions, they'd get better exercise. :lol:

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

I have yet to see a mandate or order that is unConstitutional.

The Constitution, as originally written, did not place many restrictions on what states could do regarding individual rights. It was only after application of the 14th Amendment that individual rights began to have protection against state infringement, and even fundamental rights are not sacrosanct if there is a compelling state interest to take action that infringes upon them. Many rights aren't fundamental and do not have that level of protection, and many rights that people think exist simply don't.

I respectfully disagree, Matt. The right to free and peacefull assembly has been infringed on in our state, and in particular in San Diego County.

https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/deputies-ticket-22-people-found-violating-stay-at-home-order-in-encinitas/509-05cdc368-ecbb-417c-bf13-da0d52707c43

They were on public property, not in  a closed area. The government cannot mandate that you stay inside your home without violating the constitution.

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40 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

I respectfully disagree, Matt. The right to free and peacefull assembly has been infringed on in our state, and in particular in San Diego County.

https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/deputies-ticket-22-people-found-violating-stay-at-home-order-in-encinitas/509-05cdc368-ecbb-417c-bf13-da0d52707c43

They were on public property, not in  a closed area. The government cannot mandate that you stay inside your home without violating the constitution.

Yes, they can. See my post above. 

The argument would have to be that there is not a compelling state interest to enact and enforce this order. Given that there has been no holding that indicates this, this is a Constitutional infringement.

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30 minutes ago, Matt said:

Yes, they can. See my post above. 

The argument would have to be that there is not a compelling state interest to enact and enforce this order. Given that there has been no holding that indicates this, this is a Constitutional infringement.

I still disagree, Matt. Some scholars agree with me and some agree with you. There are already a number of lawsuits filed in California challenging the legality of the state orders. I suppose we will just have to wait and see what transpires.

I appreciate the discussion, Matt, and thank you for being thoughtful. However, I don't think there is value in continuing the debate any longer, and since I'm kind of breaking my own rule to avoid political debates on this forum, I'm going to excuse myself from any more of this discussion. 

I would, however, be happy to continue this debate or any others over a cold beverage. If you're ever in the San Diego area, drop me an line and we'll solve the worlds problems!

Hope you and your family stay safe during these trying times, and may we all be back on the baseball fields real soon! :beerbang

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24 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

I still disagree, Matt. Some scholars agree with me and some agree with you. There are already a number of lawsuits filed in California challenging the legality of the state orders. I suppose we will just have to wait and see what transpires.

I appreciate the discussion, Matt, and thank you for being thoughtful. However, I don't think there is value in continuing the debate any longer, and since I'm kind of breaking my own rule to avoid political debates on this forum, I'm going to excuse myself from any more of this discussion. 

I would, however, be happy to continue this debate or any others over a cold beverage. If you're ever in the San Diego area, drop me an line and we'll solve the worlds problems!

Hope you and your family stay safe during these trying times, and may we all be back on the baseball fields real soon! :beerbang

Not sure what is happening in San Diego, but College of The Desert in Palm Desert will only have summer and fall classes on line.  Not sure what that means to athletics.  Actually there will be no athletics as all of the campuses will still be closed.

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17 minutes ago, umpstu said:

Not sure what is happening in San Diego, but College of The Desert in Palm Desert will only have summer and fall classes on line.  Not sure what that means to athletics.  Actually there will be no athletics as all of the campuses will still be closed.

I'm not sure either. I have one son at SDSU and the other at Miramar JC. Looks like they may go back to regular classes in the fall, but who knows. Right now, the college distance learning is not going too stellar. LOL! They have some bugs to work out still. Not sure if it's my kids, the schools, or a combination of both! :lol:  My wife works for San Diego Unified School District and they are making plans for K-12 to get back in the classrooms by July or August, but there are still working out the logistics.

I think at this point our best bet is maybe getting back on the field by the end of summer. We may be able to pick up some LL or travel games here, but that is in flux. If we get lucky, maybe some SDSU intersquad games in the fall.

It's entirely possible we won't see any games until HS season next year. It's going to be a loooong offseason. On the plus side, my Jeep build is coming along nicely! Hope they open up the desert by next season so I can use it!

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7 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

I usually try and stay out of political debates, but there are some issues I have with some of your statements. I may not agree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it. JMHO

Going to PM you instead of dragging this out.  I've killed enough threads (here and on another forum) and am going to take a little self-imposed vacation.

Just want to say to the mods ... I realize these are niche forums.  But you have built a community.  You did a good job.  You brought together a group of people who respect each other and want to socialize, interact, and discuss their worlds.  I disagree with canning discussion that isn't directly about wearing gear and interpreting rules, but I understand what you are trying to accomplish.

See you sometime ... 

 

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