Little League Baseball

[Guest Rich]

Bases loaded - 2 outs: The batter hits a ground ball to short, who tags runner from 2nd as he is attempting to advance. the tag occurred after runner on 3rd scored. does the run count?

[Lou B]

The run does not count, the tag of R2 is a force out (tagged before reaching third base).

No run can score on a play where the third out is made on a force out.

[WilsonFlyer]

{Grabs popcorn and indicator to count the number of posts after the answer.}

[Rich Ives]

A force out is an out on a runner who was forced to advance before he reached the next base. It matters not how it was achieved.

LL Rule ( and the same result in any of the rule sets) : 

7.08-- Any runner is out when -  (e) Failing to reach the next base before a fielder tags said runner or the base after that runner has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

And Wilson - too many people think it is only by the tagging the base so I added this comment. 

[Aging_Arbiter]

See also LL Rule 4.09(a)(Exception)

I think?

If memory serves on the cite, this too would apply.  I don't have the book in front of me, but it is something along the lines of "No run may score when the 3rd out is made by any runner being forced, or by the batter runner before reaching 1B".

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

See also LL Rule 4.09(a)(Exception)

I think?

If memory serves on the cite, this too would apply.  I don't have the book in front of me, but it is something along the lines of "No run may score when the 3rd out is made by any runner being forced, or by the batter runner before reaching 1B".

Of course it applies. The issue here though is whether or not tagging the runner makes it a force out.

[Aging_Arbiter]

41 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Of course it applies. The issue here though is whether or not tagging the runner makes it a force out.

Lou  established that.  I was merely providing a reference (and if my memory was accurate on the rule number), not suggesting that it would NOT apply.

 

[Rich Ives]

10 hours ago, WilsonFlyer said:

{Grabs popcorn and indicator to count the number of posts after the answer.}

The original answer dien't fully answer the question. Enjoy the popcorn.

[Lou B]

26 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

The original answer didn't fully answer the question. Enjoy the popcorn.

The question was "does the run count?"

The answer, based on the post saying the the runner was tagged, was No since the tag of the runner was a force out and was out number three.

How does that not fully answer the question?

[Rich Ives]

52 minutes ago, Lou B said:

The question was "does the run count?"

The answer, based on the post saying the the runner was tagged, was No since the tag of the runner was a force out and was out number three.

How does that not fully answer the question?

He was basically questioning if the tag of the runner (not the base) was a force out.  That's the only reason to ask.

[Lou B]

38 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

He was basically questioning if the tag of the runner (not the base) was a force out.  That's the only reason to ask.

And my answer was tagging the runner before he reached third was a force out.

[Rich Ives]

14 hours ago, Lou B said:

And my answer was tagging the runner before he reached third was a force out.

Yes - but why?  Show the rule so it won't be considered as just an opinion.

[beerguy55]

16 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

He was basically questioning if the tag of the runner (not the base) was a force out.  That's the only reason to ask.

 

15 hours ago, Lou B said:

And my answer was tagging the runner before he reached third was a force out.

If you really want to get technical, the OP doesn't say where R2 was when F6 tagged him...

without making assumptions (which may or may not be reasonable or correct) the correct answer is "we don't know"

[Lou B]

The OP says the bases were loaded and the ball was hit to the shortstop who tagged the runner from second as he tried to advance.  If you can't figure that out/picture that scenario then "Houston, we have a problem"!

The runner from second was tagged as he attempted to advance to third, force out, three outs, the run does not score.

I'm done with this one.

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, Lou B said:

The OP says the bases were loaded and the ball was hit to the shortstop who tagged the runner from second as he tried to advance.  If you can't figure that out/picture that scenario then "Houston, we have a problem"!

The runner from second was tagged as he attempted to advance to third, force out, three outs, the run does not score.

I'm done with this one.

Oh, I have no doubt you're right, but you are making an assumption in arriving to that conclusion...or deduction if you will.   The response was more for Rich than you...you can really get down a rabbit hole if you decide you need to fill every gap left in a post...at some point you need to use common sense and make some logical leaps.

[yawetag]

13 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Oh, I have no doubt you're right, but you are making an assumption in arriving to that conclusion...or deduction if you will.

Occam's razor.

[noumpere]

18 minutes ago, yawetag said:

Occam's razor.

This is LL (usually 12-U, unless specified).  Most of the players aren't old enough to shave.

[Tborze]

Is this the "coaches forum"?

 

[ArchAngel72]

3 hours ago, noumpere said:

This is LL (usually 12-U, unless specified).  Most of the players aren't old enough to shave.

 

You would be surprised when it comes to the Regionals and other higher Tourneys when you do see ahem "12 yr olds"  who need to shave more than I do