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Thunderheads

NFHS 2020 Rules/ PoE / Baseballs

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This is not a complaint, it's a discussion starter:

For 2020, there are finally/officially specific baseballs that can only be used in NFHS games.

I know what's going to happen here.  In anticipation, I asked our state contact about "what if they don't have the correct baseballs"?

Answer:  (not verbatim, but: You don't play the game.)
OK, I get that, but .... what a $h1tshow that's going to be!   And let me be the first to tell you guys ....It's going to happen! Especially early in the year.

Thoughts?

ON EDIT:  Thanks to @maven - here is a link to the State interpretations he created! This is a post within the original that maven will update when information is gathered.  You can use this link to go right to that breakdown.

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Wow - they actually said "don't play the game"?     Normally, it was play the game and leave a note for the State that they did not have official baseballs.

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3 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

Wow - they actually said "don't play the game"?     Normally, it was play the game and leave a note for the State that they did not have official baseballs.

excerpt from the answer I received:

 "Baseballs are in the control of the umpires, and therefore, a game should not be played if NOCSAE-certified baseballs are not available. This has been a three-year phase in, has been included in the rules meeting the past two years and has been communicated to baseball coaches and umpires around the state."

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

excerpt from the answer I received:

 "Baseballs are in the control of the umpires, and therefore, a game should not be played if NOCSAE-certified baseballs are not available. This has been a three-year phase in, has been included in the rules meeting the past two years and has been communicated to baseball coaches and umpires around the state."

 

 

I agree, but I am not thinking all teams will be ready.  There are new coaches each year who may or may not have been told anything from last year's coaches, budgets are tight for baseball (anything but football), etc. 

I hope all are in compliance, but I won't be holding my breath.

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3 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

excerpt from the answer I received:

 "Baseballs are in the control of the umpires, and therefore, a game should not be played if NOCSAE-certified baseballs are not available. This has been a three-year phase in, has been included in the rules meeting the past two years and has been communicated to baseball coaches and umpires around the state." 

If that's your state's position, I would be extremely leery about "just going ahead and playing the game." All liability for anything actionable in that game will land on the umpire who takes that decision against explicit state direction (and the rules). A lawsuit that would otherwise have named the umpire along with the coaches, the schools, the boards of education, the assigner, the local association, the state association, and the NFHS, will name only that umpire, who will have no legal cover and no co-defendant lawyers.

Sure, the probability might be minimal, but the cost of it just went through the roof. I personally would give up a game fee before I undertook that risk. But I was raised in a family of lawyers, so I might be overly attuned to crap like this.

One coach or the other will have at least one approved ball (no telling what it looks like). Or there's one in the office. Or the AD can run out to the store. 

I'd also recommend contacting your assigner(s) to have an additional layer of communication to coaches that games will not be played without the proper baseballs.

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36 minutes ago, maven said:

If that's your state's position, I would be extremely leery about "just going ahead and playing the game." All liability for anything actionable in that game will land on the umpire who takes that decision against explicit state direction (and the rules). A lawsuit that would otherwise have named the umpire along with the coaches, the schools, the boards of education, the assigner, the local association, the state association, and the NFHS, will name only that umpire, who will have no legal cover and no co-defendant lawyers.

Sure, the probability might be minimal, but the cost of it just went through the roof. I personally would give up a game fee before I undertook that risk. But I was raised in a family of lawyers, so I might be overly attuned to crap like this.

One coach or the other will have at least one approved ball (no telling what it looks like). Or there's one in the office. Or the AD can run out to the store. 

I'd also recommend contacting your assigner(s) to have an additional layer of communication to coaches that games will not be played without the proper baseballs.

Thank  you sir.

Drafting that email as we speak/type :nod: 
on edit:  SENT!

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In South Carolina, we are not playing the game. 

The SEI/NOCSAE mark is there to address a perceived safety issue (unlike the NFHS mark which is a licensing (a/k/a "let's make money") mark).  If you knowingly play a game with baseballs that lack the SEI/NOCSAE mark and a pitcher takes a screaming line between the eyes...you're setting yourself up for a lawsuit.  

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12 minutes ago, lawump said:

In South Carolina, we are not playing the game. 

The SEI/NOCSAE mark is there to address a perceived safety issue (unlike the NFHS mark which is a licensing (a/k/a "let's make money") mark).  If you knowingly play a game with baseballs that lack the SEI/NOCSAE mark and a pitcher takes a screaming line between the eyes...you're setting yourself up for a lawsuit.  

Is there any detail on what the NOCSAE mark means?

ON EDIT!  FOUND IT!

https://nocsae.org/standard/standard-performance-specification-for-newly-manufactured-baseballs-2/

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14 minutes ago, lawump said:

In South Carolina, we are not playing the game. 

The SEI/NOCSAE mark is there to address a perceived safety issue (unlike the NFHS mark which is a licensing (a/k/a "let's make money") mark).  If you knowingly play a game with baseballs that lack the SEI/NOCSAE mark and a pitcher takes a screaming line between the eyes...you're setting yourself up for a lawsuit.  

Here is my thing... We don't allow catchers to wear non NOCSAE approved helmets... why would we allow the game to be played without baseballs that are required to have the mark? 

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11 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

Here is my thing... We don't allow catchers to wear non NOCSAE approved helmets... why would we allow the game to be played without baseballs that are required to have the mark? 

I understand it all, and agree .... 

I just wanted to make sure on where the state stood.  Sounds like all the states will be on board as well.

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11 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

I understand it all, and agree .... 

I just wanted to make sure on where the state stood.  Sounds like all the states will be on board as well.

Like you said, they've had 3+ years to get ready for this, so shouldn't be an issue.

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6 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

Like you said, they've had 3+ years to get ready for this, so shouldn't be an issue.

I did not say that, ...it came from the state contact that responded to my email.

"shouldn't be an issue"   ??   I'm telling you right now, it's going to happen as early as March somewhere, maybe even February in Cali!

There was a mandate that all game balls have the NFHS logo on the balls 2 seasons ago (I think) .....first game .... NOPE! :D 

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1 minute ago, Thunderheads said:

I did not say that, ...it came from the state contact that responded to my email.

"shouldn't be an issue"   ??   I'm telling you right now, it's going to happen as early as March somewhere, maybe even February in Cali!

There was a mandate that all game balls have the NFHS logo on the balls 2 seasons ago (I think) .....first game .... NOPE! :D 

I stand corrected.

sorry michael caine GIF

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40 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

I understand it all, and agree .... 

I just wanted to make sure on where the state stood.  Sounds like all the states will be on board as well.

Unless they revise their interp one state is not on board. But, states can decide to not comply with some NFHS rules. The just can't have a seat at the board that determines the rules. Although South Carolina does not comply with the appeal rule and I think they still had a seat. But is there further risk because of the safety issue? In years past we allowed JV teams to play with whatever balls they had.

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We were told in Texas to play the game, but file a report with the state following the game letting them know the wrong baseballs were provided.

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Our position in Northern CA is the game does not start. Same position we had when the balls had to be NFHS stamped. Have never had an issue with this.

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1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

That may have changed. I found this on the UIL site:

https://www.uiltexas.org/files/athletics/2020_Baseball_Link_Update.pdf

that's dumb ....... you'll just keep ejecting people.  If the team/teams don't have the right baseballs, then how can you play? 

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I agree its a bit stupid when they say its ok for scrimmages but not ok for regular games.

I'm less liable magically for a scrimmage?

I'll double check again but at our meetings we were told play the game and file a report if the wrong balls are provided. 

 

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4 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

excerpt from the answer I received:

 "Baseballs are in the control of the umpires, and therefore, a game should not be played if NOCSAE-certified baseballs are not available. This has been a three-year phase in, has been included in the rules meeting the past two years and has been communicated to baseball coaches and umpires around the state."

 

 

They aren't wrong. This was communicated back in 2018 or so.

I understand turnover is a factor, but I would think any supplier who was giving them NOCSAE-approved balls knows those won't work anymore.

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13 minutes ago, yawetag said:

They aren't wrong. This was communicated back in 2018 or so.

I understand turnover is a factor, but I would think any supplier who was giving them NOCSAE-approved balls knows those won't work anymore.

There's nothing wrong with the email I received, and I know it's all true.

I would think also, but I'm telling you .... it's going to happen :rolleyes:

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I agree its going to happen..........just like the nocsae catchers gear.........I know they had 3 years ....If the home team does not have any compliant baseball  we were told to ask the visitors if they had any correct baseballs and if so play the game.....if not the game does not get played.......

I travel a long way to make the games I am assigned. I lose plenty of game assignments due to foul spring weather...........they have not said anything about umpire compensation if the teams aren't compliant............It looks like I will be buying the cheapest dozen of compliant baseballs I can find. Far better to trade a team 2 compliant balls for what they have than to travel home unpaid.........  

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2 minutes ago, Stan W. said:

I agree its going to happen..........just like the nocsae catchers gear.........I know they had 3 years ....If the home team does not have any compliant baseball  we were told to ask the visitors if they had any correct baseballs and if so play the game.....if not the game does not get played.......

I travel a long way to make the games I am assigned. I lose plenty of game assignments due to foul spring weather...........they have not said anything about umpire compensation if the teams aren't compliant............It looks like I will be buying the cheapest dozen of compliant baseballs I can find. Far better to trade a team 2 compliant balls for what they have than to travel home unpaid.........  

it's a Stan W. sighting!!! :D :wave: 

I understand that.  I believe we would get paid if we showed up and the teams weren't prepared to play.  That's another question to ask.   That said, regardless, I'm not paying for baseballs so a game can happen. :no: 

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6 minutes ago, Stan W. said:

......It looks like I will be buying the cheapest dozen of compliant baseballs I can find. Far better to trade a team 2 compliant balls for what they have than to travel home unpaid.........  

↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ This has crossed my mind too.  I can't afford traveling for waste of time and loss of funds.

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