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[mbates50]

Rule 7.13 states pitcher must be on plate with ball AND catcher in box. Question came up in my Majors game yesterday. So, the pitcher is on plate with ball, but the catcher is screwing around outside the box, can the runners go?  We all know that players are always told to throw it to the pitcher to hold the runners, but....  Thanks for any input

[Senor Azul]

From the 2019 Little League Rules Instruction Manual for rule 7.13:

INSTRUCTOR’S COMMENTS:

The catcher is “ready to receive delivery” of the pitch when he/she has his/her mask on and is facing the pitcher. It is not necessary for him/her to be in a squat position.

Until the pitcher and catcher have satisfied the above elements of this rule, the runners are free to advance without violation.

[stkjock]

was/is the ball in play would be my first thought?

[Replacematt]

53 minutes ago, mbates50 said:

Rule 7.13 states pitcher must be on plate with ball AND catcher in box. Question came up in my Majors game yesterday. So, the pitcher is on plate with ball, but the catcher is screwing around outside the box, can the runners go?  We all know that players are always told to throw it to the pitcher to hold the runners, but....  Thanks for any input

If the ball is in play, yes, they can run.

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, mbates50 said:

Rule 7.13 states pitcher must be on plate with ball AND catcher in box. Question came up in my Majors game yesterday. So, the pitcher is on plate with ball, but the catcher is screwing around outside the box, can the runners go?  We all know that players are always told to throw it to the pitcher to hold the runners, but....  Thanks for any input

Players are taught to throw it to the pitcher mostly because the coaches don't know about the catcher being ready part of the rule. And some even think that  the pitcher having the ball will stop plays in progress.

[mbates50]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

If the ball is in play, yes, they can run.

Thanks

[mbates50]

1 hour ago, Senor Azul said:

From the 2019 Little League Rules Instruction Manual for rule 7.13:

INSTRUCTOR’S COMMENTS:

The catcher is “ready to receive delivery” of the pitch when he/she has his/her mask on and is facing the pitcher. It is not necessary for him/her to be in a squat position.

Until the pitcher and catcher have satisfied the above elements of this rule, the runners are free to advance without violation.

Ah, the RIM. I have it but forgot about it. Thanks

[mbates50]

32 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Players are taught to throw it to the pitcher mostly because the coaches don't know about the catcher being ready part of the rule. And some even think that  the pitcher having the ball will stop plays in progress.

What? Coaches don't know the rules? LOL, thanks

[Lou B]

So, the pitcher has the ball on the mound.  Even if the catcher is not in position are you really going to send a runner?

[DevildogUmp]

Lou B - see the above comments about coach's not knowing rules. I have seen it all the time, especially used with R3 and a walk. Pitcher gets the ball, BR never stops and keeps going to second. Players and coaches don't do anything except start screaming how the pitcher has the ball.

[Rich Ives]

2 hours ago, Lou B said:

So, the pitcher has the ball on the mound.  Even if the catcher is not in position are you really going to send a runner?

If the runner is on 3B and the catcher is wandering off - yes if it's the right runner. Been there. Done that.   

[Lou B]

OK, maybe with R1 and R3 and less than two outs, but in general, with most runner combinations (just R1 or with R1 and R2 or with just R2 or just R3) are you going to send a runner when the pitcher has the ball and is standing on the mound?

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, Lou B said:

OK, maybe with R1 and R3 and less than two outs, but in general, with most runner combinations (just R1 or with R1 and R2 or with just R2 or just R3) are you going to send a runner when the pitcher has the ball and is standing on the mound?

If F1 isn't paying attention, then maybe F3 and F4 aren't paying attention.  So, the runner can often get 40% of the way there before there's even a "he's going!" comment.  And, since the kids can often run better than they throw and catch ....

 

No, it's not something that happens every play (or even, likely, more than once a game, because the defense learns).  But, it's something to watch for -- even as an umpire.  You (We) don't want to be the only one caught napping on this play.

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, Lou B said:

OK, maybe with R1 and R3 and less than two outs, but in general, with most runner combinations (just R1 or with R1 and R2 or with just R2 or just R3) are you going to send a runner when the pitcher has the ball and is standing on the mound?

Absolutely, and have done so - especially at the younger levels, but you even see it in MLB once in a while...if everyone's daydreaming the runner has a significant advantage...he knows what he's doing and where's going, and he may be halfway to the next base before anyone even notices...the pitcher has to realize what's happening, process it, figure out what to do, and then make a quality throw to a fielder who may or may not have also realized what is happening and is probably trying to make a catch and tag while running - if he has even realized in time that he needs to get to the base.   And they have under four seconds from the time the runner breaks to execute all that.

.

[ArchAngel72]

I am assuming LL Minors/Majors  rules 

As the question is written I take it the catcher is not in the box nor near it.  Yes the runners may take off.  The Pitcher may also throw to the base in front of the runner with just stepping towards the base. He does not have to step back off the plate if in the windup.  ( Its weird but its allowed) Its a question on the test.

 

The way its been told to me "be ready to catch a pitch" does not mean squatting behind the plate. It means alert and in the box behind the plate so if a pitch came in he could catch it.  IE a purpose thrown ball ( intentional walk style)

 

 

[Aging_Arbiter]

6 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

alert and in the box behind the plate so if a pitch came in he could catch it.

....to me means in the box, facing the pitcher with facemask/helmet/dangling throat guard on.

See??  Another difference in translation!

[mbates50]

Thanks for all the answers.

All I can say is that if I start enforcing the catcher part of rule 7.13, the chaos it's going to create is not worth the trouble. Unless that one coach out of a thousand knows the entire rule, I'm gonna leave it as is. Pitcher on the plate. (BTW, I am not a District ump, but do Little League).

[Aging_Arbiter]

There are requirements written, as indicated.  The pitchers plate is not a "stop button" and the sooner they learn this, the better off they will be.

[beerguy55]

3 hours ago, mbates50 said:

Thanks for all the answers.

All I can say is that if I start enforcing the catcher part of rule 7.13, the chaos it's going to create is not worth the trouble. Unless that one coach out of a thousand knows the entire rule, I'm gonna leave it as is. Pitcher on the plate. (BTW, I am not a District ump, but do Little League).

If you're just going to make SH*# up why did you ask what the rule was?   

If you're not going to enforce the rule as it's intended then at least call "Time" whenever the pitcher has the ball.  Then when you tell the runner he can't run you at least have a rule to back yourself up...ie. The ball is dead.   Because, really, that's what you're trying to achieve - you seem to want action to stop when the pitcher gets the ball.  You can want that all you want but that's not the rule.

Otherwise, not only are you going to get protests up the ass, you're going to be teaching players and coaches a rule that doesn't exist, and then they get to wonder wtf is going on when they run across an umpire who actually knows and administers the rules appropriately.

And you're worried about chaos?  I guess it's OK if other umpires have to deal with the chaos you create.

[yawetag]

16 hours ago, mbates50 said:

Thanks for all the answers.

All I can say is that if I start enforcing the catcher part of rule 7.13, the chaos it's going to create is not worth the trouble. Unless that one coach out of a thousand knows the entire rule, I'm gonna leave it as is. Pitcher on the plate. (BTW, I am not a District ump, but do Little League).

So often, umpires have to deal with "cleaning up the mess" from previous umpires.

This is one of those cases.

[mbates50]

22 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

If you're just going to make SH*# up why did you ask what the rule was?   

If you're not going to enforce the rule as it's intended then at least call "Time" whenever the pitcher has the ball.  Then when you tell the runner he can't run you at least have a rule to back yourself up...ie. The ball is dead.   Because, really, that's what you're trying to achieve - you seem to want action to stop when the pitcher gets the ball.  You can want that all you want but that's not the rule.

Otherwise, not only are you going to get protests up the ass, you're going to be teaching players and coaches a rule that doesn't exist, and then they get to wonder wtf is going on when they run across an umpire who actually knows and administers the rules appropriately.

And you're worried about chaos?  I guess it's OK if other umpires have to deal with the chaos you create.

I asked about the rule because it's not being enforced ANYWHERE in my area. District or association umps. So, until it's being done on a regional level, I'm not going to the the guinea  pig. I would like it enforced as it makes it more like real baseball and would seed things up.

[mbates50]

8 hours ago, yawetag said:

So often, umpires have to deal with "cleaning up the mess" from previous umpires.

This is one of those cases.

See my reply to "beer guy".