Home run off the top of the wall

[spark2212]

Is there a specific rule that states that a fly ball which bounces off the top of the outfield wall and goes out of play is a home run? I’d like to be able to quote my source when I comment on YouTube that this call is incorrect. 

[Phu Bai]

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-sz-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=sz&p=home+run+off+canseco's+head#id=1&vid=ec47a597285adedecb84453368c3ea24&action=click

[Lou B]

It's a video game, who cares!

[spark2212]

28 minutes ago, Lou B said:

It's a video game, who cares!

I’d still like to know whether there’s a specific rule for it or whether it’s just something that “everyone just knows.”

[maven]

15 minutes ago, spark2212 said:

I’d still like to know whether there’s a specific rule for it whether it’s just something that “everyone just knows.”

Yes.

[spark2212]

4 minutes ago, maven said:

Yes.

Which one?

[Jimurray]

22 minutes ago, spark2212 said:

I’d still like to know whether there’s a specific rule for it whether it’s just something that “everyone just knows.”

The rule only refers to going out of the playing field in flight. The MLBUM and MiLBUM give interps for a ball that hits the top of the outfield wall absent any stadium ground rules.

Hitting top and bounding into stands is HR.

Hitting top and bound back onto field is live ball.

But your stadium appears to have a handrail above the wall. That stadium would probably have a ground rule that would depend on whether the handrail was even with or set back from the wall.

 

[beerguy55]

11 minutes ago, spark2212 said:

I’d still like to know whether there’s a specific rule for it whether it’s just something that “everyone just knows.”

Well, besides the fact that you can find hundreds of video clips of MLB HR's that bounced off the wall as your anecdotal and empirical evidence...

If you followed the letter of the rule it would be a double because it did not go over the fence "in flight".  That's baseball fundamentalism.

By interpretation/ruling/precedent a ball that hits the top of the fence does not impact its "in flight" status for the purposes of a home run (it does for a catch).    If it hits the facing of the fence it can't become a home run.

[spark2212]

8 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Well, besides the fact that you can find hundreds of video clips of MLB HR's that bounced off the wall as your anecdotal and empirical evidence...

If you followed the letter of the rule it would be a double because it did not go over the fence "in flight".  That's baseball fundamentalism.

By interpretation/ruling/precedent a ball that hits the top of the fence does not impact its "in flight" status for the purposes of a home run (it does for a catch).    If it hits the facing of the fence it can't become a home run.

Judging from the trajectory of the bounce (i.e. high and into the stands, it hit the top of the wall, not the facing.

[spark2212]

14 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

The rule only refers to going out of the playing field in flight. The MLBUM and MiLBUM give interps for a ball that hits the top of the outfield wall absent any stadium ground rules.

Hitting top and bounding into stands is HR.

Hitting top and bound back onto field is live ball.

But your stadium appears to have a handrail above the wall. That stadium would probably have a ground rule that would depend on whether the handrail was even with or set back from the wall.

 

Can ground rules even apply to the top of walls? I’d imagine even in Philadelphia, where the railing above the wall is in play, that if a fly ball bounced off the top of the wall and out of play it would be a home run.

 

Edit: Huh, I guess they can. 

[Jimurray]

1 minute ago, spark2212 said:

Can ground rules even apply to the top of walls? I’d imagine even in Philadelphia, where the railing above the wall is in play, that if a fly ball bounced off the top of the wall and out of play it would be a home run.

All bets are off regarding ground rules at MLB stadiums. They can do whatever MLB approves.

[spark2212]

Has anyone here come across any MLB stadium where the ground rules deem a fly ball that bounces off the top of the wall and out of play to be anything OTHER than a home run? Or any baseball field where an out-of-the-park home run is possible—at any level?

[beerguy55]

6 minutes ago, spark2212 said:

Can ground rules even apply to the top of walls? I’d imagine even in Philadelphia, where the railing above the wall is in play, that if a fly ball bounced off the top of the wall and out of play it would be a home run.

 

Edit: Huh, I guess they can. 

As an example - Tropicana field allows for a ball that hits the upper catwalk to still be caught for an out, which contravenes the textbook definition of a catch, which requires a ball to be "in flight" (or perhaps just conflicts with the definition of "in flight")...either way, MLB approved it so the ground rule overrides the rule book.

[Rich Ives]

2 minutes ago, spark2212 said:

Has anyone here come across any MLB stadium where the ground rules deem a fly ball that bounces off the top of the wall and out of play to be anything OTHER than a home run? Or any baseball field where an out-of-the-park home run is possible—at any level?

No for MLB because MLB has it in their official published interpretations.

[Rich Ives]

3 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

As an example - Tropicana field allows for a ball that hits the upper catwalk to still be caught for an out, which contravenes the textbook definition of a catch, which requires a ball to be "in flight" (or perhaps just conflicts with the definition of "in flight")...either way, MLB approved it so the ground rule overrides the rule book.

But it is also over the field, not beyond the boundary.

 

[spark2212]

11 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

No for MLB because MLB has it in their official published interpretations.

Do you think MLB would permit such a ground rule?

[Lou B]

If you hit the second (outermost) catwalk, which is also not past the wall, at The Trop, it's a Home Run even if it falls down into the field of play and is caught!

[Senor Azul]

2019-2020 NCAA rule 7-6e

Note: If a batted ball hits the top of the fence while in fair territory and then bounces over the fence, it is a home run.

FED Official Interpretation:  Rumble:  It is a home run if a batted ball hits on top of the outfield fence and then bounds over in fair territory.

OBR:  Wendelstedt:  Same as FED. From the Wendelstedt manual:

The top of an outfield fence is out of play; however, any part of the facing of the fence is not. If a ball hits the fence, clearly on its facing, it is no longer in flight and the award would not be four bases. However, if the ball hits an area at the top of the fence, if it continues over the fence into a dead ball or spectator area, it should be adjudged as hitting the top of the fence. If, though, it does not continue over the fence, but instead, immediately returns to the playing field, it should be adjudged as never leaving the playing field. It would be left in play.

[maven]

14 hours ago, spark2212 said:

Do you think MLB would permit such a ground rule?

Here they all are: https://www.mlb.com/groundrules

Knock yourself out!

[noumpere]

16 hours ago, spark2212 said:

Which one?

The one that defines "playing field" as being something like "to the base of the fence and then vertically upward."

[Rich Ives]

17 hours ago, spark2212 said:

Do you think MLB would permit such a ground rule?

No for MLB because MLB has it in their official published interpretations.

And groundrules can only cover things that are NOT in the rule book.  That's why they are added.

[spark2212]

2 hours ago, noumpere said:

The one that defines "playing field" as being something like "to the base of the fence and then vertically upward."

Isn’t the top of the wall behind the base of the fence?

[noumpere]

35 minutes ago, spark2212 said:

Isn’t the top of the wall behind the base of the fence?

Yes.  I thought that was the question.  I apologize it it was not.

[Jimurray]

44 minutes ago, spark2212 said:

Isn’t the top of the wall behind the base of the fence?

Yes the top of the wall would normally be behind the perpendicular extension of the "front" (my addition) of the bottom of the playing field fence. But we have a problem with the real world configuration of fences and walls. The MLBUM interp can make sense when a ball hits the wall and goes out because maybe it's cg passed the perpendicular line while a ball that bounds back did not pass that perpendicular line. But then we have a problem with balls that come to rest on top of the wall or are either moving along the top of the wall or stopped on top of the wall and are grabbed by a spectator. What the MLBUM tells us about those balls does not seem to comply with the rule. But as an umpire I'm happy they tell us what to do.

[humanbackstop19]

NCAA RULE: 8-3-h

 

 If a fair ball goes over the fence in flight or is prevented from going over by

being touched by a spectator or by a fielder’s detached equipment, all runners,

including the batter, are entitled to score;

Note: If a batted ball hits the top of the fence while in fair territory and then bounces over the fence, it is a home run.