Tag or force out!

[Guest Eddie]

Base runner on first, no outs. Ground ball hit up the middle. Ball mishandled, but base runner advancing to second, think they're out. They have tagged second base, then they take 2-3 steps back towards first. Coach and teammates holler go back, so base runner dives back to second but fielder tags bag before base runner gets back. Batter/runner is one first. Is base runner at second safe or out?

[noumpere]

This doesn't fall under "running the bases in reverse order" (a rule that you will likely never see come into play), but instead falls under "reinstating a force out."

 

R1 is out when the base is tagged.

[White47]

I was wrong, just leaving it here for conversation purposes. see noumpere post.

 

I love question that make me think and open my rules book. My gut says that this would fall under "running" the bases in reverse order. Since he already touched second, and retreated back to first. So is that an automatic out, dead ball out, Tag play or appeal play? I believe off the top of my head it is a automatic out, could defantaly be wrong though. Im going to get in my rule book and look it up. I'll get back with you in a few

[White47]

I was wrong, just leaving it here for conversation purposes. see noumpere post.

If this does fall under running in reverse order (which it might not)

After quick search of that rule (FED-5-1-1d NCAA-8-5n OBR-5.09b-10) I'm less sure than I was before. I wish I had my casebook becuase i think that might resolve this. In all rule set Running in reverse order is a Dead ball out, and runners return to TOP. What throws me off is what if this happen on a secondary play, would you still return them TOP? interesting question, would love to hear what others say. 

 

[White47]

11 minutes ago, noumpere said:

This doesn't fall under "running the bases in reverse order" (a rule that you will likely never see come into play), but instead falls under "reinstating a force out."

 

R1 is out when the base is tagged.

awesome, I wasn't real sure, thanks. I was just giving a gut answer, sometimes the gut is wrong. 

where is the rule? I not sure i have ever read that, or at least remembering it. 

[noumpere]

14 minutes ago, Jwwhite47 said:

awesome, I wasn't real sure, thanks. I was just giving a gut answer, sometimes the gut is wrong. 

where is the rule? I not sure i have ever read that, or at least remembering it. 

"However, if
the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats
for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the
force play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the
defense tags the base to which he is forced;"

That's the OBR quote.  Other codes are similar.

[maven]

40 minutes ago, noumpere said:

This doesn't fall under "running the bases in reverse order" (a rule that you will likely never see come into play),

Since Jwwwhite raised the question: I agree with this. The "run the bases in reverse order" is only half of the prohibition. The omitted part refers to the intent behind such running: to make a "travesty" of the game.

Runners are prohibited from running the bases backwards, intentionally, in order to make fun of baseball. I've never seen it, and I've never met anyone who has seen it.

Might as well prohibit baserunners from running the bases by riding polo ponies.

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, maven said:

Since Jwwwhite raised the question: I agree with this. The "run the bases in reverse order" is only half of the prohibition. The omitted part refers to the intent behind such running: to make a "travesty" of the game.

Runners are prohibited from running the bases backwards, intentionally, in order to make fun of baseball. I've never seen it, and I've never met anyone who has seen it.

Might as well prohibit baserunners from running the bases by riding polo ponies.

Well, it only takes once.  You likely won't ever see it because now most people know you can't do it, especially in context to the scenario that caused the rule to be created in the first place.  For that reason, there's now no incentive for R2 to try to steal first base, and then steal second base again, so R3 can score on the throw.

And if someone did run the bases with polo ponies because some loophole allowed it, you would see a new rule for it too, and then you'd never see it happen again.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

I want to know what Maven has against polo ponies.

If we don't stop this type of discrimination, soon we'll be outlawing unicorns and democrats.

[maven]

36 minutes ago, FleasOf1000Camels said:

I want to know what Maven has against polo ponies.

Absolutely nothing. To paraphrase Tom Hanks, "There's no polo ponies in baseball!"

Also, polo is one of two sports that it is illegal by rule to play left-handed.

[noumpere]

10 minutes ago, maven said:

Also, polo is one of two sports that it is illegal by rule to play left-handed.

I know! 

 

[White47]

17 minutes ago, maven said:

polo is one of two sports that it is illegal by rule to play left-handed.

Well, no polo for me then. Whats the other one?

[beerguy55]

2 minutes ago, Jwwhite47 said:

Well, no polo for me then. Whats the other one?

Field hockey...I think

[noumpere]

7 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Field hockey...I think

Not correct.

[beerguy55]

5 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Not correct.

Well, field hockey sticks are right handed by rule, and you're only allowed to use the flat side of the stick (no back hands).   I suppose you could conceivable shoot left handed by flipping the stick downwards to ensure you're still hitting the ball with the flat face of the stick.

[stevis]

25 minutes ago, Jwwhite47 said:

Well, no polo for me then. Whats the other one?

Jai alai.   IIRC, the ball is deemed to be moving to fast for anyone to be expected to react to the "backwards" spin off the wall safely. 

[White47]

25 minutes ago, stevis said:

Jai alai.   IIRC, the ball is deemed to be moving to fast for anyone to be expected to react to the "backwards" spin off the wall safely. 

never heard of it until now. Did a little research and it seems pretty cool, even though it discriminates from lefties like myself. 

[maven]

6 minutes ago, Jwwhite47 said:

never heard of it until now. Dis a little research and it seems pretty cool, even though it discriminates from lefties like myself. 

That's incorrect: lefties are more than welcome to play, provided that they play by the rules.

As many lefties are ambidextrous to some degree, they have a legitimate opportunity to play.

Jai alai is mostly interesting for the wagering. And Basques are nuts. And, apologies for the hijack.

[White47]

17 minutes ago, maven said:

That's incorrect: lefties are more than welcome to play, provided that they play by the rules.

As many lefties are ambidextrous to some degree, they have a legitimate opportunity to play.

Well I've got no chance, I can't do anything with my right hand. its really quite useless. It took be forever to get calling outs and strikes down with my right hand so if there are other lefties like me there just out of luck. 

 

17 minutes ago, maven said:

Jai alai is mostly interesting for the wagering. And Basques are nuts.

And I'll have to do more research before i have a clue about what your saying. lol

 

for others that are interested this is a short YouTube video on the sport

 

[kylehutson]

11 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

And if someone did run the bases with polo ponies because some loophole allowed it, you would see a new rule for it too, and then you'd never see it happen again.

I seem to remember an episode of the Bad News Bears TV show where somebody "ran" the bases on a motorcycle.*

*According to IMDB, I was 6 when it aired, so my memory may not be perfect.

[Stk004]

12 hours ago, maven said:

Absolutely nothing. To paraphrase Tom Hanks, "There's no polo ponies in baseball!"

Also, polo is one of two sports that it is illegal by rule to play left-handed.

....................why do you know this? 

[udbrky]

50 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

....................why do you know this? 

Never question Maven, or where he gets his knowledge..... You may not want to know that answer.

[scrounge]

I gotta know...what's the other sport?

[White47]

4 minutes ago, scrounge said:

I gotta know...what's the other sport?

 

17 hours ago, stevis said:

Jai alai.   IIRC, the ball is deemed to be moving to fast for anyone to be expected to react to the "backwards" spin off the wall safely. 

 

17 hours ago, White47 said:

for others that are interested this is a short YouTube video on the sport

 

 

[noumpere]

6 hours ago, Stk004 said:

....................why do you know this? 

It's a reasonably common trivia question.

[maven]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

It's a reasonably common trivia question.

Bingo. Trivial Pursuit®.