brush back and such

[Guest Cleveland Coach]

This is one from my playing days 30-something years ago.  High school game. 

 

Pitcher delivers and it's crushed for a solo homer and the batter stands there and admires it all the way until the ball hits the ground. Clearly this does not sit well with our team. Same batter is up two innings later with 2-out and none on and is promptly drilled in the hip with a first pitch fast ball. He takes first without much trouble but with some jawing and an escort by the catcher (me) halfway down the base line. Plate umpire (quite the veteran ump) makes no real call other than to also walk part way. Next batter pops up for the third out. 

 

Between innings  ump talks to both head coaches and just says: "Message sent. Message received. We're done, right? This is going to be the end of something small, not the start of something big. Got it?!"

 

Thoughts?

[BuckeyeMike]

Preventative Umpiring 101.  I'd have done the same thing had I put 1+1 together right away like this guy did.  Kudos to him.

[sthomas13100]

Sounds like a very wise umpire.  Let the game police itself, but let everyone know who is in charge, and done quietly with confidence.

 

I like it!

[ZebraStripes]

That's the way to do it.  

[maven]

The old school approach is not likely to be favored by your state association. By 6-2-3, plunking requires an immediate ejection (no warning).

 

Amateur baseball has little place for behavior intended to injure participants.

[Majordave]

As @maven said. Us older guys know that's how it goes (or went) down in our day.

Now, with a very litigious society and so damn many personal injury lawyers that you can't swing a dead cat by the tail and not hit a damn lawyer (I used to resemble that remark) and the risk averse administrators, associations, school districts, conferences, leagues, federations, etc. They do not want that stuff going on.

We are the ones they expect to put a stop to that kind of "baseball Justice".

[ricka56]

This is going to be the end of something small, not the start of something big. Got it?!"

 

I'm stealing that line.

[BuckeyeMike]

I think this veteran ump did EXACTLY what he should have.   To suggest he EJ the pitcher for the (accidental?  intentional?   who knows?) bean-ball is a slippery slope.  You better KNOW he was aiming at that kid.  

 

Indeed we ARE the ones who they expect to put a stop to these shenanigans, and I think this ump did exactly that with his statement between innings.   He's letting everyone know that:   Accidental or not, that pitcher is on a short leash with the hit batter, and the other team is on a short leash with hitting that pitcher. 

 

I'm not sure if you guys are saying otherwise....that the Ump let it go too long, didn't eject right when it happened, his warning between innings was out of line.....(??)....... I thought the ump handled it about as perfectly as you could.      Interested to hear other philosophies.

[catsbackr]

The old school approach is not likely to be favored by your state association. By 6-2-3, plunking requires an immediate ejection (no warning).

 

Amateur baseball has little place for behavior intended to injure participants.

Maven,

 

I usually agree with most of your posts.  

 

I truly do not believe this behavior is intended to injure participants.  

 

I believe the teams did what they were supposed to do, and the umpire did exactly what he was supposed to do.  And, the old school approach has worked in the game, professional and amateur, for over 100 years.  JMHO.

[Cav]

NFHS 6.2.3

[Majordave]

Maven is right. The higher up you go the more old school Baseball Justice is accepted and expected. But, if you, the umpire, know it's coming and you don't warn beforehand and if it gets out of hand prepare to be drug into the legal arena if someone gets hurt enough to need medical care. Plus, let's face it, young men and older teens have a very hard time controlling their emotions and testosterone. The powers that be will be looking for a scapegoat. Most likely it will be the umpires. Then, maybe, the coaches. But most probably the umpires.

Do what you want. I warn anytime I think it might be heading south. I eject when it does. So far. So good.

[Thunderheads]

The old school approach is not likely to be favored by your state association. By 6-2-3, plunking requires an immediate ejection (no warning).

 

Amateur baseball has little place for behavior intended to injure participants.

maven,

Your are correct (usually are) however,....  I don't see you, or me, ...OR the other members who "liked" your comment ejecting in this situation presented in the OP, I just don't [regardless of what FED 6.2.3 says].     In this situation, you're assuming intent, and thus potentially picking up a really dirty end of a short stick

 

That said, ... game management skills would allow you to realize (after the incident) that this was a 'message' ...and you'd probably do what the OP's umpire did.

 

Just my .02 

[ZebraStripes]

As @maven said. Us older guys know that's how it goes (or went) down in our day.

Now, with a very litigious society and so damn many personal injury lawyers that you can't swing a dead cat by the tail and not hit a damn lawyer (I used to resemble that remark) and the risk averse administrators, associations, school districts, conferences, leagues, federations, etc. They do not want that stuff going on.

We are the ones they expect to put a stop to that kind of "baseball Justice".

If the HBP goes high after watching one land then EJ every time.  Hit him in the hip and then we should be good with the warning.

[noumpere]

The OP was a HS game.  You need to be more pro-active there than in a men's league game, or a summer college game.

 

I've given much the same "warning" in summer as in the OP (but I do like the line).  In HS, I might address the batter / O coach right after the HR so the D sees that it's been addressed and maybe they don't need to address it.

[James Walker]

^^ This

Except if the pitcher is running his mouth after he plunks him in the hip, then he's done. He's announcing to the world that it was on purpose and warning here isn't going to work. Some one else is going to get plunked, and it might not be in the hip next time.

[Cav]

I've failed to heed my own advice in the past; not good.  I endeavor going forward to take care of business.  Someone else said, the only EJ you will regret is the one you didn't get.

 

NFHS games are played with rules to penalize the need for "self policing."  The rules are there for the adults present to enforce.  Fake tags, FPSR, verbal interference/obstruction, MC, intentional pitches, et. al., all warrant adult intervention at the youth level.

[Rich Ives]

 

 

Amateur baseball has little place for behavior intended to injure participants.

 

This doesn't rise to that level. That's why you throw at the butt.

 

Your alternative is to toss the batter for unsportsmanlike conduct for his "admiration action".  That won't fly either.

[maven]

The OP was a HS game.  You need to be more pro-active there than in a men's league game, or a summer college game.

 

I've given much the same "warning" in summer as in the OP (but I do like the line).  In HS, I might address the batter / O coach right after the HR so the D sees that it's been addressed and maybe they don't need to address it.

 

I agree with this. HS players generally don't want my (negative) attention during a game. I use the same kind of "intervention" in boys basketball, when 2 players are getting into it: basketball has the very useful double foul that we can use as a kind of warning when they don't listen to me tell them to KTSO.

 

Many instances of escalation can be prevented by officials simply stepping in and saying something to show we're paying attention and will not tolerate escalation.

[Guest Cleveland Coach]

I've been hit by pitches and most of the time I thought: "Okay. I got the message and those usually plunkers in the hip or behind. A pitch off the tip of my nose emptied benches and left teams staring at one another (no real damage done)  And those pitches tight at the waist or under the hands, I always felt were a pitcher saying: All 17" of the plate are mine.

[BuckeyeMike]

Would you believe the zone is nearly 25" wide ??

 

And if we go by MLB, it's nearly 28" wide. 

 

Someone on here will nail this down for sure, but I was just at a clinic that talked about this and I think my measurements are conservative.    I THINK they said the MLB zone is really close to 29" wide.

[Rich Ives]

Would you believe the zone is nearly 25" wide ??

 

And if we go by MLB, it's nearly 28" wide. 

 

Someone on here will nail this down for sure, but I was just at a clinic that talked about this and I think my measurements are conservative.    I THINK they said the MLB zone is really close to 29" wide.

 

That would make any pitch between the batter's box stripes a strike and we know that isn't true just from watching replays

[BuckeyeMike]

I need to get ahold of the material or video we were shown.   I know it sounds crazy........I KNOW.  

 

But when you put the inches all together, it's pretty close to what i'm saying.   I'll work on trying to get that screen shot.   It's quite an eye-opener.

[noumpere]

I need to get ahold of the material or video we were shown.   I know it sounds crazy........I KNOW.  

 

But when you put the inches all together, it's pretty close to what i'm saying.   I'll work on trying to get that screen shot.   It's quite an eye-opener.

The problem with the "math" is that the chanke the fefinition from "amy part of the ball" through the zone to "all of the ball".

 

That alone chages the zone from 17" to 22".  And, if you go aball off each edge (they don't, in MLB), you get to 27"+.

[Mick]

I think in that case, after the drilling, I'd giving a warning to both teams, and leave it at that.  They understand what it means, and you get yourself off the hook for not saying anything specific.

[MPLSMatt]

It was a different game 30 years ago (at the high school level).  I'm not sure that I actually would eject (who's to say with 100% certainty that the pitcher didn't simply miss), but I'm fairly certain that State High School League would want me to.  Also, not sure I'd let the catcher escort the batter half way up the line - in my mind, that's where things will get out of hand as high school kids can't keep their mouths shut.