FPSR Mechanics for HP

[BillKen]

With a lone runner at 2nd, as the PU, I've always gone towards 3rd base on a ball hit in the infield.  The only FPSR violations I'm going to call from PU is contact beyond the bag or hands thrown up etc...things that can't be argued and basically call themselves.

 

I was recently told that we are now to go up the 1B line on a ball hit to the IF and then if the throw gets over F4's head, we have time to get to 3rd for a ball coming from the outfield.

 

What say you?  Discuss pros and cons of both and convince me I should change.

[johnnyg08]

What instance would you have FPSR with R2 only?  

 

As PU, I'd stay on the 1BL to help my BU w/ a pulled foot or swipe tag.  I need to trust that my BU can make a call at 1B and at 3B if necessary.  

 

Your BU could split the difference and still take everything on the bases w/ R2 only.  You might need to stay at home for a potential play at the plate w/ R2 and an overthrow.

[noumpere]

(I assume you meant R1)

 

I prefer the first base side -- it puts you in a better position for a pulled foot / swipe tag., and you can better see any slide out of the basepath at second.

 

Plus, if the ball is airmailed into the outfield, BU should have all the plays on the bases. 

 

But, as always, the primary reason to do this is that, apparently, it's what your bosses want you to do (unless, of course, you are enough of a big dog where that doesn't matter)

[catsbackr]

I too assume you meant R1.

 

I like the 1B side as noumpere mentioned.  You can still get a good look at anything you need to see at 2B and you have a great look at a pulled foot or swipe tag.  Also, if you do see interference, call it, wait and see if the DP is turned, if not, point vigorously with your left hand and enforce penalty.

[Jimurray]

I too assume you meant R1.

 

I like the 1B side as noumpere mentioned.  You can still get a good look at anything you need to see at 2B and you have a great look at a pulled foot or swipe tag.  Also, if you do see interference, call it, wait and see if the DP is turned, if not, point vigorously with your left hand and enforce penalty.

It's not a delayed dead ball. If you call it you kill it. It can happen fast enough where they do complete the DP anyway but the call should be made and enforced. Otherwise an R3 could score.

[johnnyg08]

Remember that whether or not they could've completed the double play is irrelevant.  

[JaxRolo]

Remember that whether or not they could've completed the double play is irrelevant.  

^^This

 

There is not need to turn and follow the throw to first.

[johnnyg08]

I've had coaches try and talk me into that.  It's important to know that rule inside and out.  

 

Be able to explain why the slide was illegal or why the contact was illegal. 

 

Practice it.  They will ask you and they will expect a concise answer.  Especially if it is a big situation. 

 

Late in the game is when it will be most likely if the game is close.  Don't make stuff up, just be aware of what R1 is going to try to do w/ one out and and and chance to score the tying or game-winning run.  

[maven]

Remember that whether or not they could've completed the double play is irrelevant.  

 

Right: for FPSR violations, the penalty is that the offending runner is out AND the BR is out. The penalty has 2 outs built in.

 

For ordinary runner INT (bumping a fielder who is fielding a batted ball, say), the penalty is that the offending runner is out; if a DP was possible (FED) or the runner willfully and deliberately breaks up a DP (OBR), then the BR may be called out. The penalty has 1 out built in, with the possibility of a second out.

[pnewton]

You may work at a lot of fields that have fences all the way around but most of the ones I work on have "imaginary lines" that determine out of play.  I can't ask my partner to judge if an over throw goes out of play from the middle of the infield so I need to be in first base side to help with that.  I also like to be on that side to help with everything others have mentioned such as pulled foot.  If there is a subsequent play at third my partner should have time to get into the working area to make a call there.

[johnnyg08]

You may work at a lot of fields that have fences all the way around but most of the ones I work on have "imaginary lines" that determine out of play.  I can't ask my partner to judge if an over throw goes out of play from the middle of the infield so I need to be in first base side to help with that.  I also like to be on that side to help with everything others have mentioned such as pulled foot.  If there is a subsequent play at third my partner should have time to get into the working area to make a call there.

I like the piece about the overthrow.

That is a piece of mechanics that is often forgotten.

Nice post.

[Majordave]

2 Man is hard. That's real umpiring to call everything and cover everything you need to call/cover in 2 man mechanics.

[JonnyCat]

With a lone runner at 2nd, as the PU, I've always gone towards 3rd base on a ball hit in the infield.  The only FPSR violations I'm going to call from PU is contact beyond the bag or hands thrown up etc...things that can't be argued and basically call themselves.

 

I was recently told that we are now to go up the 1B line on a ball hit to the IF and then if the throw gets over F4's head, we have time to get to 3rd for a ball coming from the outfield.

 

What say you?  Discuss pros and cons of both and convince me I should change.

Assuming you are talking about R1 only with a ground ball to the infield, the PBUC mechanic is to move up the 3rd base line, unless you have Fair/Foul up the 1B line. When moving up the 3B line, if R1 is declared out, retreat home, if not continue up the line for a possible play at 3B. There are other parameters in the 2 man manual, but you basically move towards third on most GB's to the infield with R1 only. If you do go up the 1B line for a F/F decision, BU assumes responsibility for all plays at 3B.

 

I do the PBUC mechanic and would not go up the 1B line unless I had F/F. I do not believe you could get to third in time from this position to make a call on R1.

[Richvee]

FED specifically says BU has all plays on the bases on balls hit to the infield. PU covers R1 into 3rd on balls hit to the OF only. A good point to pre-game for sure. 

[noumpere]

FED specifically says BU has all plays on the bases on balls hit to the infield. PU covers R1 into 3rd on balls hit to the OF only. A good point to pre-game for sure. 

Yes, FED is different from PBUC and CCA.

 

In this instance, I prefer FED (and many of us use it even in college two-man games in this particualr instance).

[johnnyg08]

FED specifically says BU has all plays on the bases on balls hit to the infield. PU covers R1 into 3rd on balls hit to the OF only. A good point to pre-game for sure.

Yes, FED is different from PBUC and CCA.

 

In this instance, I prefer FED (and many of us use it even in college two-man games in this particualr instance).

Worth pregaming for sure. But I like BU taking everything on these plays.

[Jimurray]

FED specifically says BU has all plays on the bases on balls hit to the infield. PU covers R1 into 3rd on balls hit to the OF only. A good point to pre-game for sure.

Yes, FED is different from PBUC and CCA.

In this instance, I prefer FED (and many of us use it even in college two-man games in this particualr instance). If you go to the 1B side is there a potential of your partner blocking your view of 2B?

If you do go to 1B side why not leave the the FPSR and out at 2B to the BU and PU calls the out at 1B? Childress ran this up the flagpole a while ago. Did not take. Obviously, with more than R1 you wouldn't do this.

[johnnyg08]

If you go to the 1B side is their a potential of your partner blocking your view of 2B?

If you do go to 1B side why not leave the the FPSR and out at 2B to the BU and PU calls the out at 1B? Childress ran this up the flagpole a while ago. Did not take. Obviously, with more than R1 you wouldn't do this.

I personally love the mechanic. I remember Childress writing about this years ago.

[noumpere]

 

If you go to the 1B side is there a potential of your partner blocking your view of 2B?

 

I think you'd have to be well past the 45' line for this to become a possibility.

 

And, I agree that it's better (at least for us at our levels) for BU to take all the plays on the bases when the batted ball doesn't leave the infield.

 

But, that's not what some of the mechanics books say (and the prescribed mechanics have gotten me in trouble a time or two).

[johnnyg08]

If you go to the 1B side is there a potential of your partner blocking your view of 2B?

I think you'd have to be well past the 45' line for this to become a possibility.

 

And, I agree that it's better (at least for us at our levels) for BU to take all the plays on the bases when the batted ball doesn't leave the infield.

 

But, that's not what some of the mechanics books say (and the prescribed mechanics have gotten me in trouble a time or two).

Agree, which is why the pregame is so important...especially with new crew members or if you're the new guy.

[MidAmUmp]

I know the CCA manual says to take the slide at 2nd from the 3rd base side of the mound. However, we teach to take it from the 1st base side. The reasoning for this is...

1. Better view if R1 slides to the outfield side.

2. You DO NOT rotate to 3rd on a ball hit on the infield or bad throw to 2nd on a ball hit on the infield (in other words, the ball must reach the outfield on a hit).

3. If you ever work 3-man, the mechanic is to trail B/R to the 45, so why not get in the habit of going in that direction?

 

All you need to do is work out in front of the plate on the 1st base side of the mound. You'll have a good look at the slide and would still have an angle to possibly help on a pulled foot/swipe tag at 1st (but know your #1 priority is the slide at 2nd and you must stay with that all the way through).

 

Also note, I'm not talking about going up the 1st base line, I'm talking about going toward the first base side of the mound.

[labguy1971]

What instance would you have FPSR with R2 only?  

 

As PU, I'd stay on the 1BL to help my BU w/ a pulled foot or swipe tag.  I need to trust that my BU can make a call at 1B and at 3B if necessary.  

 

Your BU could split the difference and still take everything on the bases w/ R2 only.  You might need to stay at home for a potential play at the plate w/ R2 and an overthrow.

I would agree with johnnyg08 on this.

[BillKen]

Sorry for the confusion...yes the OP was supposed to read lone runner at 1B.  

 

We've debated this repeatedly and have pretty much left it up to the individual umpires to pre-game and decide how that crew will work it.  I see advantages and disadvantages to both sides.  Personally for me, the only two calls I'm ever going to make related to FPSR at 2B if I am the plate ump, are the hands being thrown up or contact beyond the bag (NFHS).  For me, I've decided that I can get both of those from the 3B side of the field.

Thanks for all who have chimed in to share.  All great points and discussion!  Love this board!

[johnnyg08]

Sorry for the confusion...yes the OP was supposed to read lone runner at 1B.  

 

We've debated this repeatedly and have pretty much left it up to the individual umpires to pre-game and decide how that crew will work it.  I see advantages and disadvantages to both sides.  Personally for me, the only two calls I'm ever going to make related to FPSR at 2B if I am the plate ump, are the hands being thrown up or contact beyond the bag (NFHS).  For me, I've decided that I can get both of those from the 3B side of the field.

Thanks for all who have chimed in to share.  All great points and discussion!  Love this board!

 

You're free to do as you wish, but at the FED level you will rarely see anybody sliding through the bag.  Furthermore, if illegal action is going to occur it's most likely to occur on the sides of the base, not through the base.  You can get "hands up" or through the base from the concession stand.  Your position on the field really won't matter much for those. 

[Richvee]

 

Sorry for the confusion...yes the OP was supposed to read lone runner at 1B.  

 

We've debated this repeatedly and have pretty much left it up to the individual umpires to pre-game and decide how that crew will work it.  I see advantages and disadvantages to both sides.  Personally for me, the only two calls I'm ever going to make related to FPSR at 2B if I am the plate ump, are the hands being thrown up or contact beyond the bag (NFHS).  For me, I've decided that I can get both of those from the 3B side of the field.

Thanks for all who have chimed in to share.  All great points and discussion!  Love this board!

 

You're free to do as you wish, but at the FED level you will rarely see anybody sliding through the bag.  Furthermore, if illegal action is going to occur it's most likely to occur on the sides of the base, not through the base.  You can get "hands up" or through the base from the concession stand.  Your position on the field really won't matter much for those. 

 

Agree. 1B side gives you a better angle for slides not directly into the bag.