Plate stance

[FleasOf1000Camels]

I'm 6'2" and 240 lbs. I'll be 60 years old next spring. My knees get a little worse every year, and it is getting harder and harder to get down in the squat.  Honestly, it's not so hard to get DOWN in the squat, but often  a real chore to get UP out of it.

 

This year I found myself regularly 'tinkering' with my stance.

Spread my feet wider.

Tried staying more upright.

Tried the scissor, half-scissor, and several other variations.

Sampled hands on knees and even did the hand on the catcher's back a few times.

 

Nothing felt natural or comfortable. 

 

After fighting this for several weeks, I came to the conclusion that the constant tinkering was distracting me from the job at hand.  I just doubled up the anti-inflammatories and went back to the old standard.

 

Last night (World Series, game 5) I was focusing on Hunter Wendelstadt's plate stance.  I know he's 15 years younger, but we're similar size and build.  I noticed several interesting things:

 

He doesn't seen to be as far 'in the slot' as most...almost hiding behind f2.

He seems more upright than most.

His exposed hand is never in the same place on two consecutive pitches;  sometimes resting on the knee, sometimes in the crotch, other times at his side.

 

Any advise?

[blue23ll]

Don't use MLB umpires as a benchmark for plate stances. Hunter is very unorthodox, changes his stance and the location where he sets up , sometimes during an at bat. Some umpires get so close to the catcher you'd think they were engaged or something. I have seen MLB umpires switch between the scissors, to the heel/toe, and then the GD in the same game. 

 

My advise, use the GD stance, correctly. You will never go back to anything else. 

[Richvee]

You have a couple more yearts on your knees than I do, (Not many, mind you).  I have bone chips removed from the right knee back in the 70's (back before arthroscopic surgery became commonplace), and my left knee has been as achy if not morevso that the right recently.  I've found these sleeves to work real well.

 

https://www.getcopperfit.com/?mid=5487419

 

 

...they haven't helped my typing mistakes though 

[Richvee]

Don't use MLB umpires as a benchmark for plate stances. Hunter is very unorthodox, changes his stance and the location where he sets up , sometimes during an at bat. Some umpires get so close to the catcher you'd think they were engaged or something. I have seen MLB umpires switch between the scissors, to the heel/toe, and then the GD in the same game. 

 

My advise, use the GD stance, correctly. You will never go back to anything else. 

Agree about the GD stance. Started it this year, and I love it. Easy to lock in, way less stress on the knees. 

[noumpere]

I'm 6'2" and 240 lbs.

 

Any advise?

 

It depends on your build, of course, but if you lose 40 - 60 pounds you'll find that the "old stance" will be much easier.

[umpstu]

GD stance for about ten years now. Love it.

[MidAmUmp]

Don't use MLB umpires as a benchmark for plate stances. 

My advise, use the GD stance, correctly. You will never go back to anything else. 

     

[blue23ll]

 

Don't use MLB umpires as a benchmark for plate stances. 

My advise, use the GD stance, correctly. You will never go back to anything else. 

     

 

No comprende? 

 

 

Don't use MLB umpires as a benchmark for plate stances. 

My advise, use the GD stance, correctly. You will never go back to anything else. 

     

 

No comprende? 

 

No wait, I take my comment back. Use Gerry Davis as your benchmark...yep, that's the ticket. 

[MidAmUmp]

 

 

Don't use MLB umpires as a benchmark for plate stances. 

My advise, use the GD stance, correctly. You will never go back to anything else. 

     

 

No comprende? 

 

 

Don't use MLB umpires as a benchmark for plate stances. 

My advise, use the GD stance, correctly. You will never go back to anything else. 

     

 

No comprende? 

 

No wait, I take my comment back. Use Gerry Davis as your benchmark...yep, that's the ticket. 

 

You say don't do what the MLB umpires do...which I completely agree with.  Then you turn around and say do what Gerry Davis does.

 

Everyone wants to work the "Gerry Davis" or let's call it the hands on knees stance.  The first thing we do is get guys out of that stance and into a safe stance for the level they work.  You're not in the slot, your head's too high, you're guessing on the low pitch (money pitch), you're too far back, and you're not protected with amateur catchers.  

[blue23ll]

I work the GD, you can't get me out of that and into anything else that comes close to giving me: 

 

1) A lock in mechanism, same place every time.

2) Consistent head height, same place every time.  

3) A rock solid foundation to see the complete zone.

 

 

Safe is relative to the level you work, I agree. I have worked the heel/toe, and I got hit. The catcher doesn't provide our protection, our gear does.  As I have moved up to higher levels of ball, I get hit less on my hands and arms, probably not at all at Varsity or above. When I work youth ball, is when I get hit the most. 

 

The other things you mention, are problems with training, not with the plate stance someone uses. 

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Advice. Just sayin'...

[JaxRolo]

I work the GD, you can't get me out of that and into anything else that comes close to giving me:

1) A lock in mechanism, same place every time.

2) Consistent head height, same place every time.

3) A rock solid foundation to see the complete zone.

Safe is relative to the level you work, I agree. I have worked the heel/toe, and I got hit. The catcher doesn't provide our protection, our gear does. As I have moved up to higher levels of ball, I get hit less on my hands and arms, probably not at all at Varsity or above. When I work youth ball, is when I get hit the most.

The other things you mention, are problems with training, not with the plate stance someone uses.

How does this help you in your t-ball games?

[blue23ll]

 

I work the GD, you can't get me out of that and into anything else that comes close to giving me:

1) A lock in mechanism, same place every time.

2) Consistent head height, same place every time.

3) A rock solid foundation to see the complete zone.

Safe is relative to the level you work, I agree. I have worked the heel/toe, and I got hit. The catcher doesn't provide our protection, our gear does. As I have moved up to higher levels of ball, I get hit less on my hands and arms, probably not at all at Varsity or above. When I work youth ball, is when I get hit the most.

The other things you mention, are problems with training, not with the plate stance someone uses.

How does this help you in your t-ball games?

 

Hey now, I've moved up to coach pitch, completely bypassed machine pitch, I'm just THAT good!!

[grayhawk]

2) Consistent head height, same place every time.

Why is this important? The top and bottom of the zone are unique to each batter. Also your view of the zone may change depending on F2's head height.

[Thunderheads]

 

2) Consistent head height, same place every time.

Why is this important? The top and bottom of the zone are unique to each batter. Also your view of the zone may change depending on F2's head height.

 

that's what he's saying ..... you can adjust, and lock in to where you need to be (I think)

[blue23ll]

You can adjust your head height if you need to by the width of your stance. I find it more important to have a consistent view of the zone, then to constantly be moving up and down based on where the top of the batters strike zone is. I know where the top of the zone is, I don't need my head there for that. My view of the zone doesn't change based on the F2's head height. 

[JaxRolo]

I look at the batters stance to to see where the top of the zone is. Then pick a spot on Catchers head. Anything below that is a strike.

[MadMax]

I look at the batters stance to to see where the top of the zone is. Then pick a spot on Catchers head. Anything bow [sic... "below" perhaps?] that is a strike.

 

Oo! Time for some lawn bowling! Have you umpired Cricket, Jax?

[JaxRolo]

I look at the batters stance to to see where the top of the zone is. Then pick a spot on Catchers head. Anything bow [sic... "below" perhaps?] that is a strike.

Oo! Time for some lawn bowling! Have you umpired Cricket, Jax?

thats what I get for texting and driving

[MidAmUmp]

I work the GD, you can't get me out of that and into anything else that comes close to giving me: 

 

1) A lock in mechanism, same place every time.

2) Consistent head height, same place every time.  

3) A rock solid foundation to see the complete zone.

 

 

Safe is relative to the level you work, I agree. I have worked the heel/toe, and I got hit. The catcher doesn't provide our protection, our gear does.  As I have moved up to higher levels of ball, I get hit less on my hands and arms, probably not at all at Varsity or above. When I work youth ball, is when I get hit the most. 

 

The other things you mention, are problems with training, not with the plate stance someone uses. 

Others have already mentioned this and you've responded that you widen or shorten your width, but you cannot have the same head height on every batter. A 5'6" batter and a 6'2" batter are not the same.  You have to adjust your stance to get you in the slot on every batter.  Your eyes should be under the batter's back arm and your chin no lower than the top of the catcher's helmet.  If you had to pick between the 2, get your eyes under the batter's arm.  That's the top of the zone.  Yes, widening or narrowing your stance will get you there, but locking in your elbows and being hands on knees will not get you there.

 

You're going to get hit in any stance, that's the nature of the beast.  We all agree on that.  However, we've seen an increase in concussions the last 10 years.  Some of that is due to better attention to and diagnosis of a concussion.  Some of it probably has to do with lighter masks and the hockey masks - that's up for debate.  But a lot of it has to do with guys being too high and taking a shot to the head, where in the past the ball would have either grazed or missed them completely.

 

Gerry Davis can work an extremely wide stance with his hands on his knees because he's working 4-man.  He doesn't have anywhere to go most of the time.  Working that stance at the amateur level immobilizes you.  You have to take extra steps to get out of that wide of a stance before you can start moving where you need to go.

 

That's why we teach upper body lean (chin out over the knees) with your weight on the balls of your feet, ready to move.  When the ball is hit, I can just go instead of taking 2-3 steps to get out of my stance.

 

You say you have a rock solid foundation to see the complete zone.  I'll take you at your word since I've never seen you work, but I can tell you from my experience teaching and evaluating umpires all over the country and world, the majority of guys who work the hands on knees stance do not see the bottom of the zone very well.  They are inconsistent.  I can also tell you as an assigner, that is probably the most frequent complaint I receive from coaches - they teach pitchers to live at the bottom of the zone and guys aren't calling the knee pitch consistently.  From my observation, guys are too high and too far back from the catcher.  Once we get them within a natural arm's length from the catcher and their head lower at the top of the zone, their zone becomes more consistent.  Which tells me they aren't seeing the bottom of the zone and they're guessing.

[blue23ll]

As originally taught, the GD has you lined much too far from the catcher, I agree. Over the years I have moved closer, and have found seeing the low strike much easier. 

[JHSump]

@MidAmUmp I am very interested in your description of the stance you teach, but I am not sure I understand what you are saying, exactly. When you say "your eyes should be under the batter's back arm" do you mean "under his back armpit" or "under his back upper arm" or "under his back elbow" or what? And, when you say "we teach upper body lean (chin out over the knees) with your weight on the balls of your feet" I can kind of picture that, but do you have an actual picture of someone doing exactly what you say. I am thinking I might want to give this stance a try.

[Rulekeep]

Don't use MLB umpires as a benchmark for plate stances. Hunter is very unorthodox, changes his stance and the location where he sets up , sometimes during an at bat. Some umpires get so close to the catcher you'd think they were engaged or something. I have seen MLB umpires switch between the scissors, to the heel/toe, and then the GD in the same game.

My advise, use the GD stance, correctly. You will never go back to anything else.

All I can think about is this guy.

It goes without saying, that is a very bad stance.

I myself seem to have the Hunter problem of just vaguely doing the motions of a stance and not keeping it too consistent. Hurts my back if I keep using one stance for too long, although once I did the GD stance for like fifteen whole minutes and it was pretty great. Stance just depends on the person's pains, build, and preference, IMO.

[MidAmUmp]

@MidAmUmp I am very interested in your description of the stance you teach, but I am not sure I understand what you are saying, exactly. When you say "your eyes should be under the batter's back arm" do you mean "under his back armpit" or "under his back upper arm" or "under his back elbow" or what? And, when you say "we teach upper body lean (chin out over the knees) with your weight on the balls of your feet" I can kind of picture that, but do you have an actual picture of someone doing exactly what you say. I am thinking I might want to give this stance a try.

 

I don't know if this will work, but here's a picture of me working the plate a year or two ago.  Obviously the catcher has shifted up and down to catch a pitch, but hopefully you can see what I mean about body lean and chin out over the knees.

[JHSump]

 

@MidAmUmp I am very interested in your description of the stance you teach, but I am not sure I understand what you are saying, exactly. When you say "your eyes should be under the batter's back arm" do you mean "under his back armpit" or "under his back upper arm" or "under his back elbow" or what? And, when you say "we teach upper body lean (chin out over the knees) with your weight on the balls of your feet" I can kind of picture that, but do you have an actual picture of someone doing exactly what you say. I am thinking I might want to give this stance a try.

 

 

I don't know if this will work, but here's a picture of me working the plate a year or two ago.  Obviously the catcher has shifted up and down to catch a pitch, but hopefully you can see what I mean about body lean and chin out over the knees.

 

Thanks @MidAmUmp I'm going to try this stance this weekend. I have a DH on Sunday (16U) --- if it doesn't get snowed out!