Plate stance

[Platejob29]

There's a lot of good advice already mentioned above but the most important thing is do what works for you. A lot of people spend too much time worrying about what will look good to their peers watching, and while there are things that look just plain bad and don't work there's a lot to be said about just doing what feels good and what works for you. Unless you're in rookie ball or A ball you can pretty much throw all that other stuff out the window. A lot of people would say don't use MLB umpires as a benchmark however they are working the highest level of baseball in the world and they do what works for them. If it didn't work they wouldn't do it.

[MidAmUmp]

A lot of people would say don't use MLB umpires as a benchmark however they are working the highest level of baseball in the world and they do what works for them. If it didn't work they wouldn't do it.

Yes, they work the highest level of baseball in the world.  We don't.  That's why we don't suggest working the plate like (insert your favorite MLB umpire's name here).  We don't have the luxury of working with catchers like Molina, or pitchers like Bumgarner.  When you have a candy bar eating Engelberg back there catching because he's the fattest kid on the team...probably don't want to work the same stance as some of the MLB'ers.  That would be why the schools teach a standard stance for rookie ball and A ball umpires - because pitchers don't hit spots, catchers can't catch and if they turn them lose and work whatever stance they want, they're going to get killed.

[Haid D' Salaami]

I work the GD, you can't get me out of that and into anything else that comes close to giving me: 

 

1) A lock in mechanism, same place every time.

2) Consistent head height, same place every time.  

3) A rock solid foundation to see the complete zone.

 

 

Safe is relative to the level you work, I agree. I have worked the heel/toe, and I got hit. The catcher doesn't provide our protection, our gear does.  As I have moved up to higher levels of ball, I get hit less on my hands and arms, probably not at all at Varsity or above. When I work youth ball, is when I get hit the most. 

 

The other things you mention, are problems with training, not with the plate stance someone uses. 

1. It's a lazy way to lock in... if your shown the other way it's just as easy.

2. how many times do catchers move up or down?.. and guess what we need to move with them. so your head height will never ( or at least it shouldnt be) the same all game.

3. the Hell toe is a much better stance to see the whole zone, i guarantee it.

[blue23ll]

 

I work the GD, you can't get me out of that and into anything else that comes close to giving me: 

 

1) A lock in mechanism, same place every time.

2) Consistent head height, same place every time.  

3) A rock solid foundation to see the complete zone.

 

 

Safe is relative to the level you work, I agree. I have worked the heel/toe, and I got hit. The catcher doesn't provide our protection, our gear does.  As I have moved up to higher levels of ball, I get hit less on my hands and arms, probably not at all at Varsity or above. When I work youth ball, is when I get hit the most. 

 

The other things you mention, are problems with training, not with the plate stance someone uses. 

1. It's a lazy way to lock in... if your shown the other way it's just as easy.

2. how many times do catchers move up or down?.. and guess what we need to move with them. so your head height will never ( or at least it shouldnt be) the same all game.

3. the Hell toe is a much better stance to see the whole zone, i guarantee it.

 

1. You don't think I was 'shown' the 'other' way? (is this code?) I'm not sure what is lazy about it, its very positive. How many people using the 'other' way actually never lock in an drift in their stances? 

2. Not sure what you mean here. 

3. "Hell" toe about sums it up. 

 

You work your stance, I'll work mine. This isn't a pissin contest. 

[JaxRolo]

 

 

I work the GD, you can't get me out of that and into anything else that comes close to giving me: 

 

1) A lock in mechanism, same place every time.

2) Consistent head height, same place every time.  

3) A rock solid foundation to see the complete zone.

 

 

Safe is relative to the level you work, I agree. I have worked the heel/toe, and I got hit. The catcher doesn't provide our protection, our gear does.  As I have moved up to higher levels of ball, I get hit less on my hands and arms, probably not at all at Varsity or above. When I work youth ball, is when I get hit the most. 

 

The other things you mention, are problems with training, not with the plate stance someone uses. 

1. It's a lazy way to lock in... if your shown the other way it's just as easy.

2. how many times do catchers move up or down?.. and guess what we need to move with them. so your head height will never ( or at least it shouldnt be) the same all game.

3. the Hell toe is a much better stance to see the whole zone, i guarantee it.

 

1. You don't think I was 'shown' the 'other' way? (is this code?) I'm not sure what is lazy about it, its very positive. How many people using the 'other' way actually never lock in an drift in their stances? 

2. Not sure what you mean here. 

3. "Hell" toe about sums it up. 

 

You work your stance, I'll work mine. This isn't a pissin contest. 

 

Admit it you are just Lazy!!! 

[blue23ll]

 

 

 

I work the GD, you can't get me out of that and into anything else that comes close to giving me: 

 

1) A lock in mechanism, same place every time.

2) Consistent head height, same place every time.  

3) A rock solid foundation to see the complete zone.

 

 

Safe is relative to the level you work, I agree. I have worked the heel/toe, and I got hit. The catcher doesn't provide our protection, our gear does.  As I have moved up to higher levels of ball, I get hit less on my hands and arms, probably not at all at Varsity or above. When I work youth ball, is when I get hit the most. 

 

The other things you mention, are problems with training, not with the plate stance someone uses. 

1. It's a lazy way to lock in... if your shown the other way it's just as easy.

2. how many times do catchers move up or down?.. and guess what we need to move with them. so your head height will never ( or at least it shouldnt be) the same all game.

3. the Hell toe is a much better stance to see the whole zone, i guarantee it.

 

1. You don't think I was 'shown' the 'other' way? (is this code?) I'm not sure what is lazy about it, its very positive. How many people using the 'other' way actually never lock in an drift in their stances? 

2. Not sure what you mean here. 

3. "Hell" toe about sums it up. 

 

You work your stance, I'll work mine. This isn't a pissin contest. 

 

Admit it you are just Lazy!!! 

 

I know, me and my lazy lock in....I need to use the hell toe

[MidAmUmp]

I think you both have decent points.  I agree, work the stance you want, but I also think the advice of a D-I conference tournament umpire has some clout.

 

Mr. Haid and I worked a camp over the weekend.  During my cage session I moved 3 guys out of their hands on knees stances and into a wide base, upper body lean, chin over knees, closer to the catcher, weight on the balls of your feet, eyes looking down through the zone (vs. straight ahead) stance.  All 3 of those guys came to me before the weekend was over and told me they felt more in the slot, could see the entire zone better and were more mobile since they didn't have to take steps to get out of their hands on knees stance - they could just rip off the mask and go when the ball was hit.

[blue23ll]

Point taken.

 

However, I have used the HOK for about 10 years now, and I have been to camps/clinics with professionals, and many D1 level umpires, none of which suggested I change. To me, that means I must know what I'm doing (or that I'm so far gone changing wouldn't help me, but I digress). I don't brag about who I know or what I've done. I will say, I love umpiring, and I challenge myself to get better every day, and if I felt that using a different stance would make me a better umpire, I'd change in a heartbeat. 

[JaxRolo]

Point taken.

 

However, I have used the HOK for about 10 years now, and I have been to camps/clinics with professionals, and many D1 level umpires, none of which suggested I change. To me, that means I must know what I'm doing (or that I'm so far gone changing wouldn't help me, but I digress). I don't brag about who I know or what I've done. I will say, I love umpiring, and I challenge myself to get better every day, and if I felt that using a different stance would make me a better umpire, I'd change in a heartbeat. 

^^^HAHAHAHAHA!^^^

[blue23ll]

I keep saying that over and over

[th3]

I was at a clinic a few weeks ago and they commented on and (at least momentarily) fixed my lazy lock in

 

[Richvee]

I was at a clinic a few weeks ago and they commented on and (at least momentarily) fixed my lazy lock in

But you don't lock in hands on knees. They just got you to go from standing to getting down to your lock in stance faster. It looked crisper after the change. I lock in hands on knees, and they didn't try to change me at all. As a matter of fact, we never even talked about my stance. Guess I had enough other problems to keep my evaluator busy.   

[th3]

Rich I actually now lock in by grabbing the front of my pants

[blue23ll]

Rich I actually now lock in by grabbing the front of my pants

The crotch?

[Haid D' Salaami]

 

 

I work the GD, you can't get me out of that and into anything else that comes close to giving me: 

 

1) A lock in mechanism, same place every time.

2) Consistent head height, same place every time.  

3) A rock solid foundation to see the complete zone.

 

 

Safe is relative to the level you work, I agree. I have worked the heel/toe, and I got hit. The catcher doesn't provide our protection, our gear does.  As I have moved up to higher levels of ball, I get hit less on my hands and arms, probably not at all at Varsity or above. When I work youth ball, is when I get hit the most. 

 

The other things you mention, are problems with training, not with the plate stance someone uses. 

1. It's a lazy way to lock in... if your shown the other way it's just as easy.

2. how many times do catchers move up or down?.. and guess what we need to move with them. so your head height will never ( or at least it shouldnt be) the same all game.

3. the Hell toe is a much better stance to see the whole zone, i guarantee it.

 

1. You don't think I was 'shown' the 'other' way? (is this code?) I'm not sure what is lazy about it, its very positive. How many people using the 'other' way actually never lock in an drift in their stances? 

2. Not sure what you mean here. 

3. "Hell" toe about sums it up. 

 

You work your stance, I'll work mine. This isn't a pissin contest. 

 

1. The other way.. Heel toe i mean.... plenty of people lock in..

2. does your catchers setup the same every single pitch? probably not, so we need to adjust with them.If they are seting up high, we move up with them.. they go lower, so do we.

3.Funny i just saw that..

 

and your right i will work my stance which has done pretty well so far... but listen.. im not getting pissed and nether should you..

[Haid D' Salaami]

I keep saying that over and over

The lack of sunshine up in the NW must be making you mad.... stop taking everything so personal... these are just personal opinions.... I ( meaning myself) think the HOk looks lazy... yes on any level.

[blue23ll]

I'm stark raving mad you know!!  Everything is about MEEEEEEEEEEEE...    

 

I call most of the stances I see "pop a squats", but that's just MEEEEEEEEEEE...    

[Haid D' Salaami]

I'm stark raving mad you know!!  Everything is about MEEEEEEEEEEEE...    

 

I call most of the stances I see "pop a squats", but that's just MEEEEEEEEEEE...    

I agree.. some squats do look like were taking a poop...

[blue23ll]

The poop squatters, and the drifters, and head movers, drive me looney!!!  

[th3]

are the pants grabbers ok?

[blue23ll]

The funny thing is, I was a pant grabber up until about 2002, when I went to a Gerry Davis clinic. My life would never be the same!!  

[noumpere]

The funny thing is, I was a pant grabber up until about 2002, when I went to a Gerry Davis clinic. My life would never be the same!!  

And now 12 years later someone for whom the GD doesn't work is "in power" and is trying to get all to change -- and a lot will and then 12 years from now someone will come up with a "new better idea" of hands on knees, farther back, etc and that will become the hot new teaching point, and around and around we go.

[MidAmUmp]

 

The funny thing is, I was a pant grabber up until about 2002, when I went to a Gerry Davis clinic. My life would never be the same!!  

And now 12 years later someone for whom the GD doesn't work is "in power" and is trying to get all to change -- and a lot will and then 12 years from now someone will come up with a "new better idea" of hands on knees, farther back, etc and that will become the hot new teaching point, and around and around we go.

 

If I had to render a guess, I would assume this comment might be directed towards me.  So I'll respond...

 

I'm not really trying to change people.  I'm pretty much of the opinion that if you can stand on your head and get pitches right, then stand on your head.  The problem is I see a lot of guys working a hands on knees stance because "it's easy".  That's where Mike is saying it's lazy and I agree.  They don't really understand the concepts behind the stance and why you do what you do.  They just see other guys work it and monkey see, monkey do.

 

When I try to change someone it's because they're not getting pitches right in their current stance.  That could be their head is too high, they are too deep, they are too close, they aren't in the slot, and so on and so on...  If that is the case, their current stance isn't right for them and I teach them a proven stance that will help them.

 

I never tell a guy at one of our camps that they can't work a certain way.  Most of the time we make some minor adjustments and leave them alone.  Unless we see them consistently missing pitches.

 

I also know as guys start to work up the ladder and into college baseball, most evaluators, supervisors and assignors do not like umpires being more than an arm's length from the catcher.  So, in order to keep a guy from getting downgraded on an evaluation at that level, we tend to move them into a more "acceptable" stance until they've established themselves enough to go out on their own a little bit.  Personally, I'm not there and that's one of the many reasons I don't work a hands on knees stance anymore.

 

Finally, guys say it all the time, "Don't work like an MLB umpire."  But then they turn around and say work the Gerry Davis.  Why not work the Joe Brinkman, the Phil Cuzzy, the Mike Reilly, the Bruce Froemming???  What's so damn special about working with your hands on your knees, 3+ feet from the catcher, with your legs spread as far apart as possible???  I've got a photo of Brinkman working the plate one time and he is on a knee almost on the grass behind the plate.  He'd tell you that's the best place to be to get pitches right.  It worked for him.  This works for Gerry.  Bobbing and weaving worked for Froemming, drifting worked for Reilly, giving the catcher a reach around works for Cuzzy.  Work what works for you - the box, scissors, taint, knee, hands on knees, on your head...get 'em right.

[Haid D' Salaami]

I love it JB....Love it.

[MadMax]

Finally, guys say it all the time, "Don't work like an MLB umpire." But then they turn around and say work the Gerry Davis. Why not work the Joe Brinkman, the Phil Cuzzy, the Mike Reilly, the Bruce Froemming??? What's so damn special about working with your hands on your knees, 3+ feet from the catcher, with your legs spread as far apart as possible??? I've got a photo of Brinkman working the plate one time and he is on a knee almost on the grass behind the plate. He'd tell you that's the best place to be to get pitches right. It worked for him. This works for Gerry. Bobbing and weaving worked for Froemming, drifting worked for Reilly, giving the catcher a reach around works for Cuzzy. Work what works for you - the box, scissors, taint, knee, hands on knees, on your head...get 'em right.

"Feel something warm and fuzzy? Have no fear, it's Phil Cuzzi." – A Catcher's Anecdote