Force 3 Mask

[Majordave]

I asked Jason Klein some questions on other site.  Here they are and his reply.

 

 

Jason,

What is the material of the mask pads please? What is it that will touch our face? Leather? Nylon mesh? Fabric of some type? Please don't say pleather/vinyl.....

Also, the testing results you speak of, can you post them somewhere on the site please? Maybe a link for members only or whatever you think is appropriate.


Thanks.

Dave

Dave,

Sorry to disappoint you, but the pads are made with a synthetic leather. We were going to use genuine leather, but genuine leather breaks down very quickly, and gets hard. You would be buying new pads every year, and we tried to eliminate having to do that. We chose a fabric that (if I didn't tell you it wasn't) is extremely close to leather. It's really soft and incredibly durable. We tested many different fabrics before deciding on this one. I'll be happy to post the results so you can post them on the other site. I'm happy to answer questions, as the NOCSAE standard is a little tricky to read. I put them in the best format to make it as reader friendly as possible.

http://www.umpire.org/f3testreport.pdf

Jason"

[grayhawk]

No detail on the masks they tested against - "Champion, Rawlings and Wilson" are all we get.  Which models?  Which pads?  I would assume they used the stock pads from each of those masks.  I would be curious to see the F3 as compared to a $160 Wilson or All Star, with TW pads ($40) installed.  I bet the gap wouldn't be as wide.

[sri8527]

I find it interesting that rawlings is included but all star was not, I am happy with the equipment I use now.

[gnhbua93]

The mask is not in the force3 website do page redesigning.  So this should be caveat emptor to that part of the discussion.

[DVA7130]

http://force3progear.com/product/defender-mask/

Ummmmm...... Yes it is on their website..

[Rook23]

Man, I can't wait to not buy this. 

[jkumpire]

 

This is from Jason Klein on ABUA/Umpire.org site in sister? topic to this one here.

 

 

"I am happy to share our test results that was conducted by one of the 4 independent testing labs in the country that is approved by NOCSAE. We have the scientific data, and happy to share and answer any questions.

As far as the guarantee, every mask bends after subsequent impacts. That's what they are designed to do. Rather the mask bend than your head. Our mask has such a great advantage over every mask out there, we wanted to not have you worry about a dented mask, and not just have to throw it away after it was dented beyond use and make you buy another one. We didn't have to give any guarantee and could have elected to go this route. All masks these days have a 1 year use life. After each year, the manufacturer will not warranty the mask, and recommend you buy a new one anyway. 

Hope that helps, and I am more than happy to answer any questions.

Thanks for your interest!"

 

 

Someone scientific ask him for testing results and analyze it for us please.

 

 

 

Can someone please enlighten me on this information in the bold print? Jason what is the basis for this statement?

 

A mask frame is only good for a year? Mask padding is good for a year or less, but my Wilson TI frame hasn't even taken a shot since I bought it three years ago, with no dents or dings on it.  I also know of no maufacturer who makes a claim like this. Is 'NOXY' saying mask frames need replaced every year? If so do I need to replace all my gear?

 

If you are saying the guarantee is only a year and I am misunderstanding you, I apologize for lack of comprehension skills. But I don't understand this statement.    

[jkumpire]

PS:

 

Sorry to pile on here but I just can't understand this. Unless a metal fram is bent or broken why should it ever need replaced? How can a metal frame be so affected by the environment it is used in that it is defective by use after a year? 

 

Thanks

[Jocko]

All metals, when properly cared for, will last for years and years. The structural integrityof the material is unaffeced my the elements if it is protected. The only things that will cause damage to the metal are distortion, stress, and iron oxide. As with all safety equipment, it should be thoroughly inspected before each use and after any impact. The bars may not bend, but it may well have cracked one of the spot welds. This is why, when I strip a mask to be powder coated, I will re-weld any questionable places. Sometimes the cracks are very difficult to see and can only be detected by magna-flux process. Are any of us going to do this? Nope. But if you will keep the coating up (no rust) and take precautions, your mask frame will last for years and years.

Jason is full of sh!t. The PADS need to be replaced annually. Ask Shiela at TW.

P.S. I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once ;)

[jkumpire]

Jocko,

 

Thank you for the post. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for this statement if he said the wrong thing or if he has some data to back up the inference. The statement certainly seems  counter-intuitive to most of us, that's why I am looking for an amphilication from him or anyone else who is familir with the testing or the gear. 

[JaxRolo]

We will have to see what happens when guinea pigs (umpires) wear this for a few weeks.

[Jocko]

@jkumpire - I dont know their testing. What I DO know........is metal.

[Thunderheads]

Jocko,

 

Thank you for the post. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for this statement if he said the wrong thing or if he has some data to back up the inference. The statement certainly seems  counter-intuitive to most of us, that's why I am looking for an amphilication from him or anyone else who is familir with the testing or the gear. 

2 points!!!

 

ohhhh, .... and 2 points taken away!!

[BigUmpire]

@Jocko KNOWS metal!

[jkumpire]

 

Jocko,

 

Thank you for the post. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for this statement if he said the wrong thing or if he has some data to back up the inference. The statement certainly seems  counter-intuitive to most of us, that's why I am looking for an amphilication from him or anyone else who is familir with the testing or the gear. 

2 points!!!

 

ohhhh, .... and 2 points taken away!!

 

 

Hey now, that ain't bad for a 4 AM post....

[johnnyg08]

PG 13 or better lots of language!     Metal Face!!!  jocko loves Metal

 

[Mizzou2016]

After a year and a half, anyone have any firsthand experience with this mask?

[gnhbua93]

After a year and a half, anyone have any firsthand experience with this mask?

I used the Force3 mask all this season but one game. That is from Independent Professional Baseball to 13U with no problem whatsoever.  The game that I didn't use it was a JV game in which I used a Nike NRS.  I was regretting not using it , not because of getting hit with the Nike NRS, just because I'm so accustomed to the Force3.  For me, it's cool being hit with a Force3 mask.  The facial expression of the people after getting hit with a Force3 mask is priceless.

[Majordave]

Steven,

there are reports from users.  UmpStu has discussed his experiences with it. Cannot remember who else. You can do a search or peruse the hard way by scrolling or PM those guys who have it like Stu. I've tried it on but have not worn one in a game. I've worked with five partners who have this mask. They all love it. The weight is negligible more than a common mask sold today by major manufacturers. It is designed to be worn snugly to the head via the harness strap. It would take some significant getting used to for me as I have been wearing loose, loose harness for so long. The snug fit, the "pleather"/vinyl pads and the full round profile are what's holding me back. I'm a low profile, loose harness, doeskin/leather pads kinda guy and not ready or willing to change yet. 

Other opinions from other assholes may vary. (Note that I'm including myself in the category of assholes-anyone who knows me will agree. For anyone else it's just a generic term for people with an opinion. I do not intended to offend anyone in particular.)

[Mizzou2016]

Very nice legal disclaimer at the end there, Dave. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[grayhawk]

I used the Force3 mask all this season but one game. That is from Independent Professional Baseball to 13U with no problem whatsoever.  The game that I didn't use it was a JV game in which I used a Nike NRS.  I was regretting not using it , not because of getting hit with the Nike NRS, just because I'm so accustomed to the Force3.  For me, it's cool being hit with a Force3 mask.  The facial expression of the people after getting hit with a Force3 mask is priceless.

I'm impressed.  The Force 3 mask is so good, even the facial expressions of people watching you get hit are different.  This thing is the Ginsu knife of the umpire world!  It slices, it dices, and boy can it catch fish!

[MadMax]

I find it interesting that rawlings is included but all star was not, I am happy with the equipment I use now.

All-Star wasn't included in the test field because All-Star is exceptionally forthright and candid in their own testing results. Check YouTube and All-Star's own site. No point in expending time and resources to get metrics from a company that already publicizes them, and is proud to.

Rawlings? Asleep at the wheel. Wilson? Probably had to include them because Wilson hasn't tested anything in ten years. I'd love to know which models of mask were compared from the other three producers. Rawlings only makes three models of mask (Titanium, PWMX, LWMX), and based on the results, my guess would have to be the Titanium or LWMX. Similarly, that's gotta be a Dynalite from Wilson – their pads are rather good.

I wasn't aware Champion even made masks anymore.

[umpstu]

After a year and a half, anyone have any firsthand experience with this mask?

I am a big supporter of Force 3 products, so  use all of their equipment, including the mask.  It is built heavier then other masks, but if you look at it you will notice it's basically two masks in one.  I don't have a neck so the weight doesn't affect me.  It makes a weird sound when hit, kind of a tink. but the ball has always bounced off of it with absolutely no ill results.  Takes getting used to.  Before the Force 3 I wore a low profile titanium with Team Wendy pads and it used to kill my jaws when being hit.  Thin I might have suffered a few minor concussions while wearing that.  Myself and Major Dave are not big fans of Team Wendy pads.  But, then again we are assholes. lol Love ya Dave.

[Mizzou2016]

I am a big supporter of Force 3 products, so  use all of their equipment, including the mask.  It is built heavier then other masks, but if you look at it you will notice it's basically two masks in one.  I don't have a neck so the weight doesn't affect me.  It makes a weird sound when hit, kind of a tink. but the ball has always bounced off of it with absolutely no ill results.  Takes getting used to.  Before the Force 3 I wore a low profile titanium with Team Wendy pads and it used to kill my jaws when being hit.  Thin I might have suffered a few minor concussions while wearing that.  Myself and Major Dave are not big fans of Team Wendy pads.  But, then again we are assholes. lol Love ya Dave.

I had the same experience with my lightweight diamond, and TW pads. Took a shot in the chin and it just killed my jaw for a few days. Hope I run into someone that has it - I'd like to feel it before I buy it. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[clasonater]

I don't feel the weight is an issue for me, but the black pads get hot.  I use this and Wilson Ti 50/50 and it sounds weird when you get hit but you honestly dont feel a damn thing