Balk overturned by my assigner/PU

[ump570]

 Names have been changed to preserve anonymity. 18/19U tournament. I am BU.  Bases loaded. RH pitcher working from the windup. F1 steps off with his right foot, turns, and immediately pivots raises his arms  lifts his left leg while looking at home plate. I call balk! (I have him simulating a pitch while off the rubber. He then fakes a throw to third and pivots back to throw the runner out at first).  Immediately, DC comes out to argue. The DC comes out and says, "He's allowed to step off and fake to third!" I said "Yes, that would be legal, but in my judgement, he simulated a pitch after stepping off." At this point, my partner, who is also my boss and my assigner, and who has 20+ years of experience pulls me aside and says, "Joe, that's not a balk, he can do a fake to third after he steps off." I said, "Yes, but that's not my ruling. He pivoted and raised his arms and leg just like he was going to pitch. He started into a windup before faking to 3rd, so I have him simulating a pitch." Well, here comes the kicker- partner says, "Joe, he can do whatever he wants once he steps off, he's now an infielder." Well, what can I do at this point. I am the new guy with less than 3 years experience. And I only have one year of serious higher level baseball under my belt, and my partner who is also my assigner is telling me something I know isn't true. I end up capitulating and waving off the balk and returning the runners. Between innings, I said, "Bob, I may be wrong, but I am certain that you can't simulate a pitch while off the rubber." He looked at me like I was crazy and said he had never heard of such a rule and continued to argue that the pitcher was an infielder and could do whatever he wanted. I felt like SH*# the rest of the game. This guy is a good friend of mine and I consider him a mentor, but this really has me burned up.

[Texas Manny]

8.05
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --

 

(g) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitchers plate;

 

 

Assigner is wrong. Since he is a friend, kindly point the rule out to him. Either he will be humble and acknowlege his mistake and ask for forgiveness, or act with ignorance/indifference like he did in your game. Then you'll need to decide what is your next course of action.

 

Didn't you have your rule books in the car that the two of you could have discussed it after the game in the parking lot?

[ricka56]

Refer him to OBR 8.05(g)...uppp...got beat to the punch.

 

It sucks, but if this is the kind of boss you have, not much you can do short of going elsewhere. Also, these kind of umpire authorities often have some pretty screwed up mechanics expectations...be prepared for other "not best practices" expectations.  

[ump570]

Thank you for the insight.

[kanedog]

FED and NCAA you cannot make a natural pitching motion while off the rubber. If that is what you had, calling a balk was correct.

[Stan W.]

show assignor the rule........remember your partners age, years of service, and office held in the association doesnt really matter when he is stone cold wrong.........

 

now, the real world part.....be tactful when showing the assignor the rule.....start with " do you remember that situation we had where I called the balk?..........well, I was looking it up and I need you to help me understand your intrepretation........isnt this contrary to what "we" ended up doing?.

[JaxRolo]

Had you called it right away. (while he had his arms in the air) it might have looked better for you.

 

But since you called it late. It seemed to confuse everyone.

[Texas Manny]

Had you called it right away. (while he had his arms in the air) it might have looked better for you.

 

But since you called it late. It seemed to confuse everyone.

Jax,

 

I'm curious. How did you determine he didn't call it right away? He called it as soon as the pitcher faked a pitch and then wheeled and feinted the throw to third?

[ump570]

Had you called it right away. (while he had his arms in the air) it might have looked better for you.

 

But since you called it late. It seemed to confuse everyone.

How did I call it late? I called it as soon as I was sure it was a balk. His arms moved, then his leg came up, and I called it. His hands and leg came up almost simultaneously. I called it before he made his move to 3rd. I called it as soon as I was sure of what I had.

[grayhawk]

Simulating a pitch while off the rubber being a balk is a very basic rule that everyone should know.  Actually seeing it happen on the field is where people get tripped up.  It just doesn't happen that often, so even "veteran" umpires like your buddy lets it go uncalled.  Unfortunately, guys not calling it makes our job that much more difficult.

[JaxRolo]

 

Had you called it right away. (while he had his arms in the air) it might have looked better for you.

 

But since you called it late. It seemed to confuse everyone.

How did I call it late? I called it as soon as I was sure it was a balk. His arms moved, then his leg came up, and I called it. His hands and leg came up almost simultaneously. I called it before he made his move to 3rd. I called it as soon as I was sure of what I had.

 

ok if you called it before the move to 3rd then you are good to go!!!

 

I read the OP as calling it after the throw.

 

 

Good Job!

[blue23ll]

My advice is to pick your battles carefully. This is a case of you being right and maybe need to just eat it. I have found it generally counter productive to take on arrogant, ignorant big dogs, it can be career limiting at best, career ending at worst.

[JaxRolo]

My advice is to pick your battles carefully. This is a case of you being right and maybe need to just eat it. I have found it generally counter productive to take on arrogant, ignorant big dogs, it can be career limiting at best, career ending at worst.

Good point

[Richvee]

Worked a handful of travel games with a new partner this season. He was a fine umpire. Good mechanics, we work well together. The league we do uses FED rules, but they allow OBR for conferences. Before one of our games we're chatting, and I say "It's amazing how many sub varsity coaches don't know the FED defensive conference rule. Then he says something about 3 visits per pitcher, and I said, No, FED is 3 visits per seven inning game. He starts insisting it's 3 per pitcher. Tough situation when that stuff happens. At least this wasn't game related and just a conversation. 

[Jocko]

Newsflash--------- his status as assignor, his years of experience, nor his supposed rules knowledge make him infallible. We all kick some. The fact that he said he never heard of that rule makes the whole situation sketchy, imo. I would definitely discuss it with him. But in a learning manner, not challenging. Piss on his leg.

"Mike, I'm just starting out and I want to be as good as you someday. Help me understand this.... (remind him the situation and show him the rule)

Not exactly how I personally would handle it. I'd cram the book in his face and call him a fkn beantard. But that's just how I roll :D

[Texas Manny]

Newsflash--------- his status as assignor, his years of experience, nor his supposed rules knowledge make him infallible. We all kick some. The fact that he said he never heard of that rule makes the whole situation sketchy, imo. I would definitely discuss it with him. But in a learning manner, not challenging. Piss on his leg.

"Mike, I'm just starting out and I want to be as good as you someday. Help me understand this.... (remind him the situation and show him the rule)

Not exactly how I personally would handle it. I'd cram the book in his face and call him a fkn beantard. But that's just how I roll

Dang Jocko. Don't hold back. Tell 'em how you really feel. LOL.

[grayhawk]

 

Newsflash--------- his status as assignor, his years of experience, nor his supposed rules knowledge make him infallible. We all kick some. The fact that he said he never heard of that rule makes the whole situation sketchy, imo. I would definitely discuss it with him. But in a learning manner, not challenging. Piss on his leg.

"Mike, I'm just starting out and I want to be as good as you someday. Help me understand this.... (remind him the situation and show him the rule)

Not exactly how I personally would handle it. I'd cram the book in his face and call him a fkn beantard. But that's just how I roll

Dang Jocko. Don't hold back. Tell 'em how you really feel. LOL.

 

I was just trying to be funny with the Geico remark. At least I didn't tell 'em to go to Motel 6 where they'll keep the lights on for him.

 

 

Manny, you're losing it - that was another thread!

[Texas Manny]

 

 

Newsflash--------- his status as assignor, his years of experience, nor his supposed rules knowledge make him infallible. We all kick some. The fact that he said he never heard of that rule makes the whole situation sketchy, imo. I would definitely discuss it with him. But in a learning manner, not challenging. Piss on his leg.

"Mike, I'm just starting out and I want to be as good as you someday. Help me understand this.... (remind him the situation and show him the rule)

Not exactly how I personally would handle it. I'd cram the book in his face and call him a fkn beantard. But that's just how I roll

Dang Jocko. Don't hold back. Tell 'em how you really feel. LOL.

 

I was just trying to be funny with the Geico remark. At least I didn't tell 'em to go to Motel 6 where they'll keep the lights on for him.

 

 

Manny, you're losing it - that was another thread!

 

   I just fixed it.

[scrounge]

Even if you totally wrong - which you weren't - what kind of mentor would do that to you right there in the middle of the field during an inning?

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Not exactly how I personally would handle it. I'd cram the book in his face and call him a fkn beantard. But that's just how I roll

 

Whatever...... 

[bam]

Worked a handful of travel games with a new partner this season. He was a fine umpire. Good mechanics, we work well together. The league we do uses FED rules, but they allow OBR for conferences. Before one of our games we're chatting, and I say "It's amazing how many sub varsity coaches don't know the FED defensive conference rule. Then he says something about 3 visits per pitcher, and I said, No, FED is 3 visits per seven inning game. He starts insisting it's 3 per pitcher. Tough situation when that stuff happens. At least this wasn't game related and just a conversation.

On more than one occasion in situations as the one you describe, I've pulled my rule book out and showed my mis-informed partner the error of his ways. Conversely, more than once my partner has put me in my place.

Where was YOUR rule book?

[Forest Ump]

My advice is to pick your battles carefully. This is a case of you being right and maybe need to just eat it. I have found it generally counter productive to take on arrogant, ignorant big dogs, it can be career limiting at best, career ending at worst.

 

Go with what blue23 wrote. Don't mention it unless he brings it up. I would bet you a dollar to a donut he already knows he got it wrong. He  has either looked it up when he got home or most likely what happened; he was telling another official about this crazy balk call  and that official corrected him. 

[Kevin_K]

Worked a handful of travel games with a new partner this season. He was a fine umpire. Good mechanics, we work well together. The league we do uses FED rules, but they allow OBR for conferences. Before one of our games we're chatting, and I say "It's amazing how many sub varsity coaches don't know the FED defensive conference rule. Then he says something about 3 visits per pitcher, and I said, No, FED is 3 visits per seven inning game. He starts insisting it's 3 per pitcher. Tough situation when that stuff happens. At least this wasn't game related and just a conversation. 

 

I thought we were going to keep that conversation between us... no?

[noumpere]

Another option of course is to go to other big dogs in the association and ask them for help on the rule and then suggest it be brought up in training so all are on the same page.

[Richvee]

 

Worked a handful of travel games with a new partner this season. He was a fine umpire. Good mechanics, we work well together. The league we do uses FED rules, but they allow OBR for conferences. Before one of our games we're chatting, and I say "It's amazing how many sub varsity coaches don't know the FED defensive conference rule. Then he says something about 3 visits per pitcher, and I said, No, FED is 3 visits per seven inning game. He starts insisting it's 3 per pitcher. Tough situation when that stuff happens. At least this wasn't game related and just a conversation.

On more than one occasion in situations as the one you describe, I've pulled my rule book out and showed my mis-informed partner the error of his ways. Conversely, more than once my partner has put me in my place.

Where was YOUR rule book?

 

In the car. The conversation came up walking to the field prior to the game and I didn't bring it up after.