Balk overturned by my assigner/PU

[Jocko]

@Pete Peterson Sr - learned from the original smart arse :rock

[Platejob29]

I agree with Jocko, best to handle it tactfully and in a way help your assigner save some face. I however would shove it in his face and be a smart a$$ about it. That's just me though. I know I can come off as an arrogant jerk at times but when I was first starting out I got put through the ringer and learned from the school of hard knocks. My dad was my first assignor and rather than teaching me anything other than basic field positioning he let me go out there and get chewed out a few times before he started teaching me any mechanics or anything like that. It made me learn a lot quicker and it has led me more to teach or handle situations like what happened to you in a slightly more abrasive way. In a way it has helped me gain some more respect from the higher level umpires in my area because they see that I don't let someone push me around even when I am almost always younger than anyone who I am dealing with weather it be another umpire or a coach. I would say that just because someone is senior to you on the field doesn't mean they are always right. Last year when MLB network ran the special for The Third Team there was a scene in the locker room talking pregame and Joe West said "don't think that just because we are senior to you doesn't mean you can't come to us with anything because no one in this room wants to get a call wrong." That spoke volumes to me because as I'm sure many of you here can agree that a lot of senior umpires in the amateur ranks are quite the opposite and they try and pull rank anytime someone disagrees with them.

[VAUmp]

I'm surprised that the opposing team's HC didn't come unglued when you waived off your balk call.

[24sdad]

 Names have been changed to preserve anonymity. 18/19U tournament. I am BU.  Bases loaded. RH pitcher working from the windup. F1 steps off with his right foot, turns, and immediately pivots raises his arms  lifts his left leg while looking at home plate. I call balk! (I have him simulating a pitch while off the rubber. He then fakes a throw to third and pivots back to throw the runner out at first).  Immediately, DC comes out to argue. The DC comes out and says, "He's allowed to step off and fake to third!" I said "Yes, that would be legal, but in my judgement, he simulated a pitch after stepping off." At this point, my partner, who is also my boss and my assigner, and who has 20+ years of experience pulls me aside and says, "Joe, that's not a balk, he can do a fake to third after he steps off." I said, "Yes, but that's not my ruling. He pivoted and raised his arms and leg just like he was going to pitch. He started into a windup before faking to 3rd, so I have him simulating a pitch." Well, here comes the kicker- partner says, "Joe, he can do whatever he wants once he steps off, he's now an infielder." Well, what can I do at this point. I am the new guy with less than 3 years experience. And I only have one year of serious higher level baseball under my belt, and my partner who is also my assigner is telling me something I know isn't true. I end up capitulating and waving off the balk and returning the runners. Between innings, I said, "Bob, I may be wrong, but I am certain that you can't simulate a pitch while off the rubber." He looked at me like I was crazy and said he had never heard of such a rule and continued to argue that the pitcher was an infielder and could do whatever he wanted. I felt like ###### the rest of the game. This guy is a good friend of mine and I consider him a mentor, but this really has me burned up.

I understand this guy is your assignor and all, but the way this looks to everyone in attendance is that you are a dummy and, thank God, your wiser and more experienced partner was on hand to set you straight, overturn this obvious screw up and maintain the integrity of our national pastime.  

 

Curious, did the offensive HC come out after you changed your call or was he just as clueless as your partner and the defensive HC?

 

Did you ever consider telling your partner after he "pulled you aside" that maybe he did not see what you saw, you were positive F1's actions constituted a balk, and as such the call stands?

 

Routine ground ball to F6 who promptly throws the ball into the dugout (first play by inf).  You correctly place B/R on second base.  Your same partner pulls you aside and says the B/R gets third base on this play because by the time the ball trickled unassisted into the dugout, B/R had touched 1st base.  As in your OP, you know he is wrong and explain it is a TOP award.  As in the OP, he tells you that you are incorrect.  Are you going to move the runner to 3rd because he has 20+ years experience and is your assignor? 

 

I know you are in a difficult position given who your partner is and I don't think anyone will dispute this.  You said you felt like ##### the rest of the game, which I am guessing was due to you compromising what you know is right.  Doing what is right is sometimes a difficult choice, and failing to do so can easily be rationalized by a variety of justifications.  Others might disagree, but if you are right, you're right.  Stick to your guns.  This might just cause your experienced partner to crack open a rule book or two.

[ricka56]

The OP reminds me of one I had.

 

I (fairly new) was on the dish, batter steps out of BB then F1 aborts his pitch delivery. My partner (20+ yrs exp) calls a balk, and despite my best efforts to explain why he should rescind his call, he stubbornly sticks to it. We get back to the umpire change room where a handful of umpires are at, and he can't wait to get these guys to tell me how wrong I was...didn't work out that way.

 

There is a circle of trust that we develep with our partners. I try hard to get/stay within my partners' circle of trust, because once you're out, you're out.

[VAUmp]

"umpire change room" -  You mean parking lot right?

[ricka56]

What ??? You don't have one like ours ?

jk...that's Augusta National's Champions locker room.

But the tournament facility that I work at does have an

A/C building away from HQ for umpires to escape to.

...yes, we are spoiled

[Platejob29]

"umpire change room" -  You mean parking lot right?

Actually where Rick and I call kid ball we have an umpire changing room and most of the high schools provide changing rooms as well.

[mstaylor]

I would be pissed if a senior partner did that to me in the middle of a game. However, if you call something and your senior partner insists on going with something else, do exactly what Stan said do. Look it up, or come here and doublecheck, but prove to yourself you are correct and have rule support. Then go to your senior partner and ask him to help clear your confusion. Simply tell him you are confused, this is what I was remembering, can you explain what I am reading incorrectly? There are times we think we know or understand something, talk to a senior guy and find out we were incorrect. Here, you are correct and hopefully you can get your boss to see the light. 

[ump570]

 

 Names have been changed to preserve anonymity. 18/19U tournament. I am BU.  Bases loaded. RH pitcher working from the windup. F1 steps off with his right foot, turns, and immediately pivots raises his arms  lifts his left leg while looking at home plate. I call balk! (I have him simulating a pitch while off the rubber. He then fakes a throw to third and pivots back to throw the runner out at first).  Immediately, DC comes out to argue. The DC comes out and says, "He's allowed to step off and fake to third!" I said "Yes, that would be legal, but in my judgement, he simulated a pitch after stepping off." At this point, my partner, who is also my boss and my assigner, and who has 20+ years of experience pulls me aside and says, "Joe, that's not a balk, he can do a fake to third after he steps off." I said, "Yes, but that's not my ruling. He pivoted and raised his arms and leg just like he was going to pitch. He started into a windup before faking to 3rd, so I have him simulating a pitch." Well, here comes the kicker- partner says, "Joe, he can do whatever he wants once he steps off, he's now an infielder." Well, what can I do at this point. I am the new guy with less than 3 years experience. And I only have one year of serious higher level baseball under my belt, and my partner who is also my assigner is telling me something I know isn't true. I end up capitulating and waving off the balk and returning the runners. Between innings, I said, "Bob, I may be wrong, but I am certain that you can't simulate a pitch while off the rubber." He looked at me like I was crazy and said he had never heard of such a rule and continued to argue that the pitcher was an infielder and could do whatever he wanted. I felt like ###### the rest of the game. This guy is a good friend of mine and I consider him a mentor, but this really has me burned up.

I understand this guy is your assignor and all, but the way this looks to everyone in attendance is that you are a dummy and, thank God, your wiser and more experienced partner was on hand to set you straight, overturn this obvious screw up and maintain the integrity of our national pastime.  

 

Curious, did the offensive HC come out after you changed your call or was he just as clueless as your partner and the defensive HC?

 

Did you ever consider telling your partner after he "pulled you aside" that maybe he did not see what you saw, you were positive F1's actions constituted a balk, and as such the call stands?

 

Routine ground ball to F6 who promptly throws the ball into the dugout (first play by inf).  You correctly place B/R on second base.  Your same partner pulls you aside and says the B/R gets third base on this play because by the time the ball trickled unassisted into the dugout, B/R had touched 1st base.  As in your OP, you know he is wrong and explain it is a TOP award.  As in the OP, he tells you that you are incorrect.  Are you going to move the runner to 3rd because he has 20+ years experience and is your assignor? 

 

I know you are in a difficult position given who your partner is and I don't think anyone will dispute this.  You said you felt like ##### the rest of the game, which I am guessing was due to you compromising what you know is right.  Doing what is right is sometimes a difficult choice, and failing to do so can easily be rationalized by a variety of justifications.  Others might disagree, but if you are right, you're right.  Stick to your guns.  This might just cause your experienced partner to crack open a rule book or two.

 

Honestly, I don't know what else I could have done. I was emphatic about being correct in the call when he came out to talk to me. He just continued to say, "No, he can fake to 3rd after he steps off, followed by me saying, "That's not what I'm calling. I'm balking him for simulating a pitch." He looks at me and says, "He can do whatever he wants after he steps off, he's an infielder." At that point, it's starting to get heated. I decided it was better to walk away at that point before it ended up in a shouting match between umpires. I don't know about you guys, but I need to work as many games as possible. The economy sucks where I am and shifts have been cut at my job and some guys have been laid off. I made more umpiring this year than I did from my day job. This guy assigns the majority of my games. I worked between 8 and 12 games for this guy every weekend from March-Nov. I only had to work 4 games with him the whole season. So in my mind sticking to my guns and fighting this battle would have been cutting my nose off to spite my face.

I was surprised that the OC didn't argue more emphatically. I honestly think he didn't know the rule; because he's the type to argue if he thinks he's getting screwed.

 

In hindsight, I should have had a rule book in my pocket. I think I read on here that it's unprofessional to carry a rule book around in your pocket. Also, it comes back to the politics of the situation. Now, by pulling out the book and shoving it in his face on the field during the game am I making him look like a dummy who doesn't know the rules?

[ump570]

I would be pissed if a senior partner did that to me in the middle of a game. However, if you call something and your senior partner insists on going with something else, do exactly what Stan said do. Look it up, or come here and doublecheck, but prove to yourself you are correct and have rule support. Then go to your senior partner and ask him to help clear your confusion. Simply tell him you are confused, this is what I was remembering, can you explain what I am reading incorrectly? There are times we think we know or understand something, talk to a senior guy and find out we were incorrect. Here, you are correct and hopefully you can get your boss to see the light. 

That's actually happened to me before. In fact, I wrote about that a few weeks ago. It was the thread titled, "Failure to Deliver." Thank you.

[ump570]

I'm surprised that the opposing team's HC didn't come unglued when you waived off your balk call.

Me too, but that coach is notorious for misinterpreting rules as well, so I guess he didn't know this one either.

[ricka56]

I decided it was better to walk away at that point before it ended up in a shouting match between umpires. Good choice

 

I don't know about you guys, but I need to work as many games as possible. ...So in my mind sticking to my guns and fighting this battle would have been cutting my nose off to spite my face.  Exactly right

 

In hindsight, I should have had a rule book in my pocket. Not so good an idea. Pulling a RB out never looks good. But I understand why some need to have one in the rare case of a rules protest that you must address before resuming play.

My comments in red

[noumpere]

 

 

 . Now, by pulling out the book and shoving it in his face on the field during the game am I making him look like a dummy who doesn't know the rules?

 

Yes -- and you'll be able to say "I was right in the last game I ever worked."

 

You need to decide just how "right" you want to be.

[Texas Manny]

 

 

 Names have been changed to preserve anonymity. 18/19U tournament. I am BU.  Bases loaded. RH pitcher working from the windup. F1 steps off with his right foot, turns, and immediately pivots raises his arms  lifts his left leg while looking at home plate. I call balk! (I have him simulating a pitch while off the rubber. He then fakes a throw to third and pivots back to throw the runner out at first).  Immediately, DC comes out to argue. The DC comes out and says, "He's allowed to step off and fake to third!" I said "Yes, that would be legal, but in my judgement, he simulated a pitch after stepping off." At this point, my partner, who is also my boss and my assigner, and who has 20+ years of experience pulls me aside and says, "Joe, that's not a balk, he can do a fake to third after he steps off." I said, "Yes, but that's not my ruling. He pivoted and raised his arms and leg just like he was going to pitch. He started into a windup before faking to 3rd, so I have him simulating a pitch." Well, here comes the kicker- partner says, "Joe, he can do whatever he wants once he steps off, he's now an infielder." Well, what can I do at this point. I am the new guy with less than 3 years experience. And I only have one year of serious higher level baseball under my belt, and my partner who is also my assigner is telling me something I know isn't true. I end up capitulating and waving off the balk and returning the runners. Between innings, I said, "Bob, I may be wrong, but I am certain that you can't simulate a pitch while off the rubber." He looked at me like I was crazy and said he had never heard of such a rule and continued to argue that the pitcher was an infielder and could do whatever he wanted. I felt like ###### the rest of the game. This guy is a good friend of mine and I consider him a mentor, but this really has me burned up.

I understand this guy is your assignor and all, but the way this looks to everyone in attendance is that you are a dummy and, thank God, your wiser and more experienced partner was on hand to set you straight, overturn this obvious screw up and maintain the integrity of our national pastime.  

 

Curious, did the offensive HC come out after you changed your call or was he just as clueless as your partner and the defensive HC?

 

Did you ever consider telling your partner after he "pulled you aside" that maybe he did not see what you saw, you were positive F1's actions constituted a balk, and as such the call stands?

 

Routine ground ball to F6 who promptly throws the ball into the dugout (first play by inf).  You correctly place B/R on second base.  Your same partner pulls you aside and says the B/R gets third base on this play because by the time the ball trickled unassisted into the dugout, B/R had touched 1st base.  As in your OP, you know he is wrong and explain it is a TOP award.  As in the OP, he tells you that you are incorrect.  Are you going to move the runner to 3rd because he has 20+ years experience and is your assignor? 

 

I know you are in a difficult position given who your partner is and I don't think anyone will dispute this.  You said you felt like ##### the rest of the game, which I am guessing was due to you compromising what you know is right.  Doing what is right is sometimes a difficult choice, and failing to do so can easily be rationalized by a variety of justifications.  Others might disagree, but if you are right, you're right.  Stick to your guns.  This might just cause your experienced partner to crack open a rule book or two.

 

Honestly, I don't know what else I could have done. I was emphatic about being correct in the call when he came out to talk to me. He just continued to say, "No, he can fake to 3rd after he steps off, followed by me saying, "That's not what I'm calling. I'm balking him for simulating a pitch." He looks at me and says, "He can do whatever he wants after he steps off, he's an infielder." At that point, it's starting to get heated. I decided it was better to walk away at that point before it ended up in a shouting match between umpires. I don't know about you guys, but I need to work as many games as possible. The economy sucks where I am and shifts have been cut at my job and some guys have been laid off. I made more umpiring this year than I did from my day job. This guy assigns the majority of my games. I worked between 8 and 12 games for this guy every weekend from March-Nov. I only had to work 4 games with him the whole season. So in my mind sticking to my guns and fighting this battle would have been cutting my nose off to spite my face.

I was surprised that the OC didn't argue more emphatically. I honestly think he didn't know the rule; because he's the type to argue if he thinks he's getting screwed.

 

In hindsight, I should have had a rule book in my pocket. I think I read on here that it's unprofessional to carry a rule book around in your pocket. Also, it comes back to the politics of the situation. Now, by pulling out the book and shoving it in his face on the field during the game am I making him look like a dummy who doesn't know the rules?

 

You were right, and you took the high road. You are to be congratulated for that. Not only was your partner wrong, but he had a temporary lapse of umpiring ettiquette.

 

Don't carry the rule book on you. If you have a bag and want to carry the rule book, then do so, keeping the bag in the general area you will be in. I know many won't agree with me, but it is better you delay the game and get the call right, then not, and lose a protest, or even so, respect.

 

I'm curious, has your friend come back to you and said anything? Even an "I'm wrong" or something? If not, what have you done to rectify this travesty?

[mstaylor]

I completely understand not wanted to argue in the middle of the field. Unfortunately you wound up in a no win situation. 

[Dannytheman]

I would be incredibly pissed no matter who it was trying to over rule my call. I would tell him, or anyone, that's my call. I am not changing it.

 

Afterwards, if I read the book and found I was wrong, I would mention my mistake, but I would also do the oppisite if I was right.

Handled afterwards, either way, the balk would stand. There are other assignors.

[ricka56]

 

You were right, and you took the high road. You are to be congratulated for that.

Congrats??? When someone has to eat a crap sandwich, condolences are in order, not congrats.

 

I'm curious, has your friend come back to you and said anything? Even an "I'm wrong" or something? If not, what have you done to rectify this travesty?

Give the guy a break, will ya. Tavesty ?? The DH was a travesty, Barry Bonds/Pete Rose...travesties, the Dodgers moving to LA, now that was a travesty, This?? This just the same old BS anyone with a job has come across in their career.  

 

Hopefully, with all due respect, try to keep his own respect, while keeping his boss' respect, along with everyone else's respect, and respectfully ask WTF.