24sdad

When PU moved from 3BLX to 1BLX looks like he ALMOST put himself in a position to be straight lined on the second tag attempt. I wonder what F2 was complaining about when he pointed to the area of the second tag attempt? Since he missed him by about a foot, I am guessing it was the distance R2 moved to his right to avoid the tag? I know this is everyday stuff for these guys, but a good reminder for us...initial missed tag and missed touch of home equals no call. @Haid D' Salaami would you give a safe signal on the second missed tag (don't know what PU did as he moves out of view) as R2 was a considerable distance from the plate?

We have a DDB CI. Shouldn't we be killing this play as soon as B/R is out? Same sitch except B/R hits a ground ball to F3. We let the DDB CI play out until F3 steps on first base to record the out on B/R. As soon as B/R is out, we kill it and deal with the CI as mentioned by other posts above. With that in mind, in the OP as soon as we determine we have an IFF the B/R is out. Shouldn't we be killing the play at that point?

This is not in the fed book. Well, its on page 37 on my 2013 NFHS rule book and what I posted above in a cut and paste from the 2014 NFHS rule book off Aribiter, so I don't know what to tell you.

5-1-2 ART. 2 . . . It is a delayed dead ball when: a. there is interference by a batter (Exception 7-3-5 Penalty), 1. When the batter interferes with the catcher attempting to play on a runner, if an out does not result at the end of the catcher's throw, the ball shall become dead immediately.

Thanks @Fittske24, this makes more sense. Appreciate you responding. @Jimurray - don't know if you read the entire article, but that is not what I take away from it. To me it appears that is the mechanic the author recommends for taking all plays at first. If you get a chance, read it. Maybe I am missing something.

This is what Fittske24 said in this thread:5-2-3 DP????? Fittske24, on 11 Jun 2013 - 08:54 AM, said: "Can't always hear both ball in glove and foot on bag when there is a crowd that big. You might can hear one or the other but not both.... Maybe could have taken a more aggressive angle to the throw coming from the catcher. May have given him a better angle to see ball in glove then listen for the foot." And I asked this: "Why is this better than seeing the foot hit the bag and hear the ball hit the mitt and then verifying that the ball is in the mitt? Is this what PBUC is teaching?" And Jocko said this: "If Fittske says it.....WRITE IT DOWN. Don't ask why." So the Referee author and Fittske 24 both might have been trained that way in the past. I just looked at the post and Fittske only gives the above as to why this mechanic could be used. I am a little confused by what he is getting at. If the crowd noise is too loud to hear both the ball popping the glove and a foot hitting the bag, you should choose the option that gives off the least amount of sound? There has to be more to his reasoning and am hoping he elaborates.

@Jimurray @Fittske24 As he is one of the more respected members here, I would love to hear Fittske24's thoughts on using this mechanic.

Or B/R beats the throw but misses first base. You are watching for F3's catch and probably only seeing B/R's upper body. Kind of rough calling out B/R on proper appeal based on lack of sound as opposed to actually seeing the miss.

Just received the December issue of Referee Mag. On page 62 the author, David Uyl (10 years MiLB, 3 years D1) discusses the correct mechanic for the base umpire on a ground ball and throw to first base: "Using your eyes properly means that you see the ball enter the glove of the first baseman. Watch that happen as you listen for the runner's foot to hit first base." Uyl goes on to say to ensure secure possession by F3 means "keeping your eyes on the ball..." Is anyone using this mechanic? My only exposure was at Evans and this mechanic was never discussed. They taught read the throw, watch the base for a touch by B/R and possible pulled foot by F3 while listening for the "pop" of the catch by F3. Prior to making your out call, bring your eyes up to F3's glove to determine secure possession. I know Referee has a rep for occasionally printing questionable information, but is this a mechanic widely used?

@MidAmUmp Your posts are a valuable resource and much needed on this forum. I agree with what you had to say...don't sweat the stuff you can't control and continue to post your high level insights. Those who pay attention to it are better umpires for it.

I understand its 10u, but teach the F2's you work with to hand you baseballs, not toss them to you.

Going to go out on a limb here and guess MAU is referring to, "Yea I have OBS, but more importantly did you see BU's new super duper Chuck Taylor Converse base shoes? Where can I get a pair?" But I could be mistaken.

Manny, come on. Anyone can clearly see B/R pull up (slowing his forward progress) well before any contact and F1 possessing the ball.

"There is no hinderance there. You cannot have hinderance unless you have contact." You don't really believe this do you?

I read it, I just disagree with your sequence of events. And it's no biggie if we disagree. We see different things...it happens.