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Guest John

Quiet Swearing

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Guest John

I should probably post this in the ejection forum but I don't feel like registering...

What do you use as a guideline for ejecting a coach if he comes up to discuss a call and swears so probably only you can hear it? I'm talking HS varsity or American Legion baseball. Something like "You're going to call that fu----- bullsh-- now?" or "you've been fu----- terrible all day." Do you give a warning about language or would you have an automatic dump?

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What do you use as a guideline for ejecting a coach if he comes up to discuss a call and swears so probably only you can hear it? Do you give a warning about language or would you have an automatic dump?

I would suggest that the coach's volume has nothing to do with whether he stays or goes (although I entirely agree that we give him every opportunity to eject himself as well as protect ourselves by turning him toward the bleachers.) As a rule of thumb, the word "you" followed by anything derogatory is grounds for ejection. That being said, the word "you" isn't automatic, especially if the coach is remaining calm. He may have legitimate beef. In some cases, I may feel he is doing his job. I won't attempt to answer any rhetorical questions, I'll be firm when I tell him my judgement and positioning aren't up for discussion and I'll probably sincerely assure him I will get a better look next time.

also, I avoid warning grown-ups for poor vocabulary. Some leagues have written rules.

I get the feeling, however, that you're asking because YOU were ejected for cussing under your breath and telling an umpire he missed calls. I'm sure that not only was it merited but you had it coming.

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What do you use as a guideline for ejecting a coach if he comes up to discuss a call and swears so probably only you can hear it? Do you give a warning about language or would you have an automatic dump?

I would suggest that the coach's volume has nothing to do with whether he stays or goes (although I entirely agree that we give him every opportunity to eject himself as well as protect ourselves by turning him toward the bleachers.) As a rule of thumb, the word "you" followed by anything derogatory is grounds for ejection. That being said, the word "you" isn't automatic, especially if the coach is remaining calm. He may have legitimate beef. In some cases, I may feel he is doing his job. I won't attempt to answer any rhetorical questions, I'll be firm when I tell him my judgement and positioning aren't up for discussion and I'll probably sincerely assure him I will get a better look next time.

also, I avoid warning grown-ups for poor vocabulary. Some leagues have written rules.

I get the feeling, however, that you're asking because YOU were ejected for cussing under your breath and telling an umpire he missed calls. I'm sure that not only was it merited but you had it coming.

everyone has his own limit/trigger like we all have our own Kzone.

If HC is using language with me, I will return in kind.

HC - Are you f**king kidding me?

Me - No, Skip. I'm totally f**king serious.

HC - He f**king beat the play!

Me - No, Skip. The tag was there.

HC - No f**king way!

Me - That's it, Skip. Let's play.

If this transaction happened between grown men where noone else could hear, noone's getting dumped.

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How's this for advice:

Just don't do it.

By the time you reach a level where it is "appropriate" to use profanity in a discussion / argument, you will be good enough (and hopefully mature enough for younger guys) to know when to and when not to curse in order to better make a point.

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How's this for advice:

Just don't do it.

Agreed. I'm no saint, but no way, no how am I using profanity on the baseball field. Doing so reduces an umpire's credibility. We are not emotionally invested in anything other than our own performance, and the only opinions that matter on such performance are our own, our partner's (sometimes), or our assigner's, mentor's or evaluator's. The opinions of players/coaches/fans are are tainted by their emotional investment in the outcome of the game, so their opinions are irrelevant, except that the inappropriate voicing of such opinion can shorten their participation in the game. IMO, the best ejection is one that is made stone cold and businesslike. From an observer's perspective, the coach has disqualified himself from the game, the umpire was just the one to inform him.

That said, if players/coaches/fans are constantly telling you how much you suck, then maybe you need to take stock. :)

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I relate this topic to the same types of situations in my "Real Job"... I've been in Law Enforcement for almost 18 years and the rule of thumb is to not use profanity toward the public..... That said, there are times where the vulgarity door has been opened and I will most definately then "Close it" with my personal version of verbal judo. I don't ever initiate the cursing but I sure do end it and get the last word when needed.

:hopmad:

:smachhead:

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I relate this topic to the same types of situations in my "Real Job"... I've been in Law Enforcement for almost 18 years and the rule of thumb is to not use profanity toward the public..... That said, there are times where the vulgarity door has been opened and I will most definately then "Close it" with my personal version of verbal judo. I don't ever initiate the cursing but I sure do end it and get the last word when needed.

:hopmad:

:smachhead:

I have done the same thing doing concert and sports security. I will be nice if they allow me but I can escalate as needed.

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Klah316 I would agree with you. I've got 19 years done and I always try to be civil and keep my head when everyone else is losing theirs but its amazing how quick the f bomb comes flying out of my mouth when a gun appears lol. I figure there's not much a skipper can say to me that I haven't been called on the street so no need to lose my head in that situation

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How's this for advice:

Just don't do it.

By the time you reach a level where it is "appropriate" to use profanity in a discussion / argument, you will be good enough (and hopefully mature enough for younger guys) to know when to and when not to curse in order to better make a point.

Absolutley the best advice. I had a mentor long ago that taught all of us the benefit of being a "rock" in the storm. Let them blow the wind, wait for the end, limit your number of words in response, and then take the appropriate action. Sometimes you gotta dump em, many times the wind blows through. Its all age ang level dependent of course.

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How's this for advice:

Just don't do it.

By the time you reach a level where it is "appropriate" to use profanity in a discussion / argument, you will be good enough (and hopefully mature enough for younger guys) to know when to and when not to curse in order to better make a point.

Absolutley the best advice. I had a mentor long ago that taught all of us the benefit of being a "rock" in the storm. Let them blow the wind, wait for the end, limit your number of words in response, and then take the appropriate action. Sometimes you gotta dump em, many times the wind blows through. Its all age ang level dependent of course.

you can't quote silence

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How's this for advice:

Just don't do it.

By the time you reach a level where it is "appropriate" to use profanity in a discussion / argument, you will be good enough (and hopefully mature enough for younger guys) to know when to and when not to curse in order to better make a point.

Absolutley the best advice. I had a mentor long ago that taught all of us the benefit of being a "rock" in the storm. Let them blow the wind, wait for the end, limit your number of words in response, and then take the appropriate action. Sometimes you gotta dump em, many times the wind blows through. Its all age ang level dependent of course.

you can't quote silence

Somebody cue the crickets!

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How's this for advice:

Just don't do it.

Agreed. I'm no saint, but no way, no how am I using profanity on the baseball field. Doing so reduces an umpire's credibility. We are not emotionally invested in anything other than our own performance, and the only opinions that matter on such performance are our own, our partner's (sometimes), or our assigner's, mentor's or evaluator's. The opinions of players/coaches/fans are are tainted by their emotional investment in the outcome of the game, so their opinions are irrelevant, except that the inappropriate voicing of such opinion can shorten their participation in the game. IMO, the best ejection is one that is made stone cold and businesslike. From an observer's perspective, the coach has disqualified himself from the game, the umpire was just the one to inform him.

That said, if players/coaches/fans are constantly telling you how much you suck, then maybe you need to take stock. :)

There are times a places where use of profanity is not justified but understandable by an official. As long as you use it only in extreme cases and you don't make it a habit your assignees etc will understand. I.e. you've had one team for 5 games straight earlier in the season and you're wrapping up a 3 game series with this team. The manager has been for lack of a better word an a$$hole and has already been ejected twice by your crew and fined by the league . He comes out to argue with you not the play or anything to do with a play but the first words out of his mouth are you're dog sh*t you've ejected him and now he doesn't want to leave you've let him make an ass of himself already and it's simply time to get the game going this is where you can start to lay into him. He's already made it very clear he wants this entire thing to be about him so now mgoing to let him know just how nothing put here is about him and let him know how little I think of him as a manager or even as a bat boy in baseball. This is about the only type of situation where you're going to get away with a small fine and maybe a little suspension after you've cussed the manager out. So make sure it's worth the money out of your pocket before you do it. Locally I've never cussed a manager in a professional setting I've only done it once, and probably will never have to again. But you will find the guys that the only way to get control of them is to give it right back to them and That's where this comes into play. It's not very often, in fact rare, but it does happen.

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As long as you use it only in extreme cases and you don't make it a habit your assignees etc will understand.

This is about the only type of situation where you're going to get away with a small fine and maybe a little suspension after you've cussed the manager out.

I think your definition of "understand" is vastly different than most. If I'm fined or suspended for my actions, that's the complete opposite of "understanding" from my assignors. I could be wrong, though.

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YMMV, but regardless of what I think about a coach or his abilities, I will not make personal insults or statements. I have no dog in the fight, and therefore have no reason to let my emotions get involved. When someone else gets you mad enough to start slinging insults, you've lost control of not only the game, but yourself, if you follow in kind. Your credibility is shot and you have now established a reputation you'd probably rather not have. Bad idea all the way around. Say what you mean. Mean what you say. Do it in a respectful way. Remember, respect is earned. That a$$hole coach isn't the only person watching.

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If you are working adult ball sometimes cuss words in the conversation can be used but not as a personal attack. Never say anything to a coach that he would get him tossed.

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I can take anything he says and NEVER feel the need to reciprocate, at any level. I personally won't toss him until: 1. I feel that he is trying to show me up with emphatic body language and/or loud verbal abuse w/ or w/o vulgarities, 2. uses the words 'you' and 'you're' in a negative light. As soon as either of those happens, in the words of a great bunch of duck hunters in La. that I love, "He Gone!"

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I should probably post this in the ejection forum but I don't feel like registering...

What do you use as a guideline for ejecting a coach if he comes up to discuss a call and swears so probably only you can hear it? I'm talking HS varsity or American Legion baseball. Something like "You're going to call that fu----- bullsh-- now?" or "you've been fu----- terrible all day." Do you give a warning about language or would you have an automatic dump?

 

 

You'll get a lot of responses to this one. Each situation has to be put into context and everyone's thresh hold is different. For me, if a coach is not grandstanding or making it personal, I may let him vent for a second. It is a competitive sport and coaches are or should be advocates for there players. That said, once he makes it personal or starts putting on a show, I'll send him packing.

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 have not had any experience in HS ball rules are pretty strict about that, summer leagues on the bench I have heard things said on the bench on the bang bang paly which is 50% rule 50% are happy and 50% unhappy, so if it is not direct at me personnely and let it go (try not to have rabbit ears). I have said excuse me in a firm voice a few times and the volume of the discussion has gone down. But again I have not many issues as of YET so who knows what my tipping point would be and besides high school there is the paperwork after the ejection.

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Once he tells me how @%*@int terrible I have been, he's done. The rest of it, as long as its only me that hears it, might get a warning. Depends on how well I know the coach.

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HSV today. Very talented F2 in his 2nd game. Warm ups over, throwing down to 2B. AIRMAIL.

F2 (only I could hear him) - F***ing S**tty a$$ throw

I acted like I didn't hear it

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HSV today. Very talented F2 in his 2nd game. Warm ups over, throwing down to 2B. AIRMAIL.

F2 (only I could hear him) - F***ing S**tty a$$ throw

I acted like I didn't hear it

 

Hear what... I didn't hear anything either.

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HSV today. Very talented F2 in his 2nd game. Warm ups over, throwing down to 2B. AIRMAIL.

F2 (only I could hear him) - F***ing S**tty a$$ throw

I acted like I didn't hear it

I would act like I did hear it and say something like "next year when we go to the 100 foot bases that will be a perfect throw."  ;)

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