2 man check swing appeal

[MPLSMatt]

In a two man system, a check swing appeal can only be made when U2 is in A, correct? I had a coach ask for an appeal when U2 was in B and I didn't grant it because it seemed crazy to think that he had any "new" info from that angle. Right or wrong? Thanks.

[noumpere]

In a two man system, a check swing appeal can only be made when U2 is in A, correct? I had a coach ask for an appeal when U2 was in B and I didn't grant it because it seemed crazy to think that he had any "new" info from that angle. Right or wrong? Thanks.

Wrong.

Appeal no matter where BU is, and have BU give what he or she sees.

[Fittske24]

Wrong.

Appeal no matter where BU is, and have BU give what he or she sees.

...+1

[MPLSMatt]

Thanks - one kicked....

[Umpire in Chief]

I actually granted an appeal on a lefty when my partner was in A and he rung up a strike. It was more of a FYC than anything else. But the OC went nuts and the batter just nodded smiled and laughed (the batter knew what had happened to him).

I've always subscribed to the theory of why not appeal, whats the worse that can happen, you get another strike?

[JaxRolo]

I've always subscribed to the theory of why not appeal, whats the worse that can happen, you get another strike?

+1 Absolutely

[Guest]

Anytime the defense, specifically the catcher, asks for an appeal, you must grant it. Now if it's getting ridiculous, I fully support, and have done so myself, having a word or two with the catcher

When you get higher in ball, whether working in a 2 or 3 man, you need to be careful what you do and don't come up with on appeal as BU.

For example, if, from A, you say a LHB "went", be prepared to be shot.

If you're in the middle and on the "closed" side of the batter (B for a RHB, C for a LHB), tread carefully. If you're on their "open" side, you do have a slightly better angle, but it's still not great.

The fact of the matter is that you need to be absolutely sure the batter did offer at the pitch if you are going to say "yes he went". It is much easier to concede the lack of proper angle and say "no", but don't let that stop you...I've rung a LHB from A twice this year. Didn't go over too well.

[Tyennie]

I generally tell myself "the batter will have to hit me in the teeth with the bat" while i am working inside, for me to ring him up.

[LMSANS]

Anytime the defense, specifically the catcher, asks for an appeal, you must grant it. Now if it's getting ridiculous, I fully support, and have done so myself, having a word or two with the catcher

When you get higher in ball, whether working in a 2 or 3 man, you need to be careful what you do and don't come up with on appeal as BU.

For example, if, from A, you say a LHB "went", be prepared to be shot.

If you're in the middle and on the "closed" side of the batter (B for a RHB, C for a LHB), tread carefully. If you're on their "open" side, you do have a slightly better angle, but it's still not great.

The fact of the matter is that you need to be absolutely sure the batter did offer at the pitch if you are going to say "yes he went". It is much easier to concede the lack of proper angle and say "no", but don't let that stop you...I've rung a LHB from A twice this year. Didn't go over too well.

Just to clarify, cause I know Ump_24 would never consider it, but in NFHS, you are not required to grant the appeal.

I will always grant the appeal, even in NFHS.

I also cover this in my pre-game and tell my partner to give me what he has, where ever he is.

[yawetag]

For those of you that state it's "difficult" for the umpire to see it in B or C (or in A for a leftie), what are you using to determine if they offered?

[Thunderheads]

For those of you that state it's "difficult" for the umpire to see it in B or C (or in A for a leftie), what are you using to determine if they offered?

If I undestand this properly ......

There is nothing to determine it. IF, and only if I'm asked in an appeal situation from B or C, ...it's never a strike, ...I can't see it from there, but I'm going along w/ the fact that there was an appeal, and my partner asked me.

When I'm PU, I have a hard time looking to my partner in B or C on an appeal. FOR ME personally, it puts him in a strange situation. I've even told a coach before when I did not grant the appeal that my partner can't determine anything from that POV, and it's my call. He didn't say anything else...

May not be correct, but ......

[noumpere]

For example, if, from A, you say a LHB "went", be prepared to be shot.

Might be true in Canada, but it shouldn't be, and it isn't where I umpire. In fact, some minor leagues always go to tthe umpire on the line, and NCAA is considering it for next year.

If you get flack for it, deal with it. It's a game management issue.

There is nothing to determine it. IF, and only if I'm asked in an appeal situation from B or C, ...it's never a strike, ...I can't see it from there, but I'm going along w/ the fact that there was an appeal, and my partner asked me.

So you're intentionally giving an incorrect ruling? Either you need to learn how to see it, or you need to grow a pair and make the call. And, you need to ask if you're the PU and your BU needs to make the correct call.

If the coaches complain, train them on the proper mechanic, including a judicious ejection for arguing balls and strikes.

[Thunderheads]

So you're intentionally giving an incorrect ruling? Either you need to learn how to see it, or you need to grow a pair and make the call. And, you need to ask if you're the PU and your BU needs to make the correct call.

If the coaches complain, train them on the proper mechanic, including a judicious ejection for arguing balls and strikes.

How come I KNEW something like this was coming ?

Ok, you're turn ... how do you SEE IT? Anyone can jump in here if you wish. Can you really determine if a batter offered at a pitch from B or C? If there is, that's fine and I've learned something today, but .....please let me know. I'm not too afraid to say I DON'T KNOW because, that's why I'm here!

Grow a pair?? Please :yippie:

[yawetag]

I can't see it from there

Can't see what exactly?

Hint: There's a reason I'm asking.

Edited July 16, 2010 by yawetag

[Thunderheads]

Can't see what? Exactly.

Hint: There's a reason I'm asking.

Hi Andrew, ...thanks, I know, and see my post I just did that got crossed with you.

I'm asking ....how do you see or, how do you tell , or make a judgement on an offer when in B or C. As my other post says, ...if it's as simple as "WHAT DO YOU HAVE" , then so be it, and I need to re-think how I perceive this, and that's fine, I'm here to learn.

[sasmallen]

Might be true in Canada, but it shouldn't be, and it isn't where I umpire. In fact, some minor leagues always go to tthe umpire on the line, and NCAA is considering it for next year.

If you get flack for it, deal with it. It's a game management issue.

So you're intentionally giving an incorrect ruling? Either you need to learn how to see it, or you need to grow a pair and make the call. And, you need to ask if you're the PU and your BU needs to make the correct call.

If the coaches complain, train them on the proper mechanic, including a judicious ejection for arguing balls and strikes.

Correct about going to the umpire on the line. If I remember right, the PBUC manual states that in a 3-man crew with a runner(s) on, the PU should always go to the umpire that's on the line. So even if it's a LH batter and U1 is in A and U3 is not in D, you would appeal to U1.

As far as asking when working 2-man and my partner is in B or C, I'll always ask...especially under OBR (see 9.02© comment).

[noumpere]

How come I KNEW something like this was coming ?

Ok, you're turn ... how do you SEE IT? Anyone can jump in here if you wish. Can you really determine if a batter offered at a pitch from B or C? If there is, that's fine and I've learned something today, but .....please let me know. I'm not too afraid to say I DON'T KNOW because, that's why I'm here!

Grow a pair?? Please

The entire rule (inOBR) is "Did he swing?" There's no single specific thing to look for. I admit that you can't tell exactly when the barrel passes the front of the plate. But, you can see the hands come away from the body. You can see the hips turn. You can see the end (cap) of the bat. If you have any baseball sense (and I don't mean that as a slight), you know whether the batter was fooled or was just taking a stride step.

[ukce1861]

you know whether the batter was fooled or was just taking a stride step.

Anything more than a stride step is a strike? I mean, I know the rule is, "offers at a pitch", but it seems it's always been interpreted to be far more than "offering" like in a bunt situation...

[Thunderheads]

The entire rule (inOBR) is "Did he swing?" There's no single specific thing to look for. I admit that you can't tell exactly when the barrel passes the front of the plate. But, you can see the hands come away from the body. You can see the hips turn. You can see the end (cap) of the bat. If you have any baseball sense (and I don't mean that as a slight), you know whether the batter was fooled or was just taking a stride step.

Yes, ...I can see that ........I guess why not then? Thanks guys, ...you've made me look at this differently, and that's good!

Thanks for hangin in there without letting me piss you off too much!! :TD:

[HokieUmp]

Ok, you're turn ... how do you SEE IT? Anyone can jump in here if you wish.

You might be sorry you asked, once you read this.....

It's like porn - you'll know it when you see it.

Hey, it let the Supreme Court weasel out of a tough spot!

[Thunderheads]

You might be sorry you asked, once you read this.....

It's like porn - you'll know it when you see it.

Hey, it let the Supreme Court weasel out of a tough spot!

LOL!!:agasp_:

[Dragon29]

Thunderheads,

Think of it this way: When you watch a game on TV and see a check-swing, don't you immediately form an opinion as to whether or not he swung? Of course you do, and your view is from an outfield camera somewhere in left-center field - so it's not a matter of not seeing it; it's a matter of judging it.

Everyone (your PU, the players, coaches, spectators, etc...) has an opinion as to whether or not the batter offered at the pitch - the beauty is that, when you're asked, yours is the only opinion that matters.

Several years ago, I told a senior umpire (kind of a mentor of mine) that I would never 'overrule' him on a check-swing request when I'm in 'B' or 'C.' (I thought I was showing him the proper respect) His answer was, "Why the Hell not? If you can legitimately get me another strike, I'll take it!"

[Thunderheads]

Thunderheads,

Think of it this way: When you watch a game on TV and see a check-swing, don't you immediately form an opinion as to whether or not he swung? Of course you do, and your view is from an outfield camera somewhere in left-center field - so it's not a matter of not seeing it; it's a matter of judging it.

Everyone (your PU, the players, coaches, spectators, etc...) has an opinion as to whether or not the batter offered at the pitch - the beauty is that, when you're asked, yours is the only opinion that matters.

Several years ago, I told a senior umpire (kind of a mentor of mine) that I would never 'overrule' him on a check-swing request when I'm in 'B' or 'C.' (I thought I was showing him the proper respect) His answer was, "Why the Hell not? If you can legitimately get me another strike, I'll take it!"

Very true, ...I like it Stuart, ..thanks!:cheers:

[mstaylor]

If you are inside look at the bat. If you don't lose the knob then no swing, if you only see the plane or face of the bat then it is borderline and probably no swing, if you get any part of the end of the bat then he did. Whatever you use if you aren't sure then it's a no swing.

[spiritumpa]

when you are in B or C -what I use to judge if a batter went on the pitch is to see the barrel of the bat, if I see that barrel that means the bat had to cross home plate.