Quieting a fan

[Moriarty_45]

I am behind the plate on 9-10 Rec league and a daddy is at the fence questioning pitches with every batter. On of his team's kids strikes out looking on 3 pitches, 2 of them about 1-2 inches off the plate. I hear him yell to ther coach, "2 of those werent even strikes!" I usually don't let that crap bother me, but it was freaking hot and the guy sounded like a real tool. Either he had been drinking or he had suffered a recent brain injury. In between innings I walked up to the fence where he was so nobody else could hear us. I asked him if he had umpired before. He smuggly said "Yeah". Then I said "I could tell, you haven't missed a pitch the whole game". He shut up after that. I don't make it a habit of addressing mouthy fans, but this guy was extraordinarily irritating.

[JaxRolo]

Had a guy sitting under a shade tree behind right field fence. He kept yelling about balls an strikes and close plays!

[Thunderheads]

Had a guy sitting under a shade tree behind right field fence. He kept yelling about balls an strikes and close plays!

That's when you go next to him between innings and sit down and yell "balls in" .....and when he questions what you're doing ,.....you say 'well, you seem to have the perfect view from here, so I figured I'd call the game from your vantage point" ............ :blah

I know, umpire urban legend, but I had to!! :o

[buddywilshire]

That's when you go next to him between innings and sit down and yell "balls in" .....and when he questions what you're doing ,.....you say 'well, you seem to have the perfect view from here, so I figured I'd call the game from your vantage point" ............ :blah

I know, umpire urban legend, but I had to!!

I'm doing that tonight!

If I get a loud fan and it is becoming an issue I warn the coach. One league I do states "Coach is incharge of the fans" Just a simple "Coach, I'm not hearing it all day. That is your warning." I say it loud enough for the fan to hear. It gets them to shut up. Am I going to toss the coach because one of the fans is being a jerk? No, but it doesn't mean I can't warn.

Most times I just leave them alone. No matter what happens, anything close and you are going to get one side complaining. I learned along time ago just leave it alone and it will stop.

[yawetag]

Am I going to toss the coach because one of the fans is being a jerk? No, but it doesn't mean I can't warn.

What are you going to do when the fan doesn't get quiet?

[BrianC14]

What are you going to do when the fan doesn't get quiet?

+1. The million dollar question.

[catoblue]

What are you going to do when the fan doesn't get quiet?

I'm sitting both teams on the bench and telling the coach that we are not resuming play until the idiot has left the vicinity of the playing field. If that fails then we are at the point where the game is suspended and the league BoD can deal with it.

[buddywilshire]

What are you going to do when the fan doesn't get quiet?

Toss the coach, I thought I said that.

Also I want to make this clear, I'm talking about a fan saying "Oh that was a ball" or "He was safe blue!" I'm only talking about a fan getting personal or crossing the line. If I here "Blue, you are f@#$ing us" or "That is 2 S%$^^y calls today" then I'm giving a warning.

Also important to know I'm only doing this is the worst of leagues. I have found the better the game, the better the fan.

[soapbox]

I'm doing a 50/70 game the other day. Good battle up until the end. 5-4 games goes to 15-4 in top of 7th. Go into bottom of 7th, 2 outs, 1-2 pitch to the tallest kid. Ball right over the plate, 2 inches above the ankles. I call it a ball. The crowd starts yelling, don't start changing the zone now blue. Hmmm, 95 degrees, 2 1/2 hours, and I get slack for extending the game by a pitch. Too funny. Two days later I go to watch my son play on same size field. Watching with my wife as the 6 umpires in the stands call the game for the field umps. She says to me, "I don't know how you do this."

[Stan W.]

Watching with my wife as the 6 umpires in the stands call the game for the field umps. She says to me, "I don't know how you do this."

My wife came to watch my son play in a semi-pro game last night.....she sat down next to me and after about a half inning she turned to me and said....

"I dont know how you do this!"

[Umpire in Chief]

One time I asked a coach to deal with a fan. And it worked. Between innings I went to the home coach "to get more baseballs" and quietly asked the coach to take care of the fan behind the backstop. No threats no confrontation. And he was gone before the first pitch of the next half.

Now had it not gone so smoothly. I would have told the coach under no uncertain terms that the fan needs to be taken care of.

Had that not worked I would have probably have tossed an assistant.

[Rich Ives]

One time I asked a coach to deal with a fan. And it worked. Between innings I went to the home coach "to get more baseballs" and quietly asked the coach to take care of the fan behind the backstop. No threats no confrontation. And he was gone before the first pitch of the next half.

Now had it not gone so smoothly. I would have told the coach under no uncertain terms that the fan needs to be taken care of.

Had that not worked I would have probably have tossed an assistant.

I don't know of any organizations rules that allow you to dump a participant for crowd behavior.

It is the home club (not team - club - i.e. the owner) or AD or whoever's job - not the manager/coaches/players.

Asking the manager may be effective - but you can't punish him if it doesn't work.

What you can do is halt the game until site management fixes the problem.

Heck - if I was a real coniving fan I'd go on the opposition's side and yell at you as if I were one of their fans so you'd toss their coach, not ours.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Rich Ives

[PeteBooth]

I am behind the plate on 9-10 Rec league and a daddy is at the fence questioning pitches with every batter.

Generally speaking Stay away from Rec ball ESPECIALLY the "rug rat" type of ball where your OP is all too common.

Warren could add a new Forum called WAR STORIES and most of us have them when it comes to "kiddie Rec ball" which is for the most part the worst ball you will call.

IMO, EVERY complex should have a green shading, Tarp or what have you covering the OUTSIDE of the home plate area, so that NO-ONE can see INSIDE where the plate is. Also, NO-ONE should be allowed around the plate area as well. Rope it off or something along those lines.

That would help somewhat, BUT when it comes to "rug-rat" rec ball you will HEAR the boo birds. That's why in general these type leagues have difficulty getting umpires.

Other then a RIPKEN and the like events we do NOT service these low level rec leagues anymore where there is an overall lack of discipline.

As others mentioned it's not a good idea to engage fans because you never know when they will become unruly. It's best to go to the coach and let him handle.

Pete Booth

[Thunderheads]

An exerpt from our league code of conduct ....

PURPOSE: The purpose of this code is to establish an agreement regarding expected on-field demeanor between coaches and umpires involved with Northville Baseball/Softball.

RANGE: This code will be in effect for both House and Travel games being umpired by a

representative of Northville Umpires Association. Coaches are responsible for notifying both their assistants and parents of its existence. Coaches should control parents during contests.

CODE: Baseball/Softball are competitive sports. The umpires working each game realize this,

and understand your desire to win each game. However, a strong desire to win is,

under no circumstances, acceptable reason to behave in an inappropriate manner. The

following offenses are unacceptable and will not be tolerated:

• Verbal abuse. This includes directly and indirectly. Indirectly refers to talking to other coaches/parents at a voice level audible to the umpire;

• Physical contact of any kind;

• “Carrying on”—i.e. talking about a call made some number of innings past;

• Arguing of judgment calls (balls/strikes/out/safe);

• Throwing/kicking equipment;

• Trying to get parents to behave in an inappropriate manner;

• Acting in any manner deemed inappropriate by the umpire(s).

PENALTY: The penalty for violating any of these offenses shall be immediate ejection from the

playing field (Northville Umpires Association’s definition of ejection is out of sight and

sound i.e. leaving the premises).

POINTS: Please take the following into consideration:

• Most of your umpires will be 14-17 year olds. How would you treat your son/daughter at that age?

• Umpires make 100+ decisions each game. These decisions must be made on a split-second basis. Could you have seen it that clearly?

• Regardless of what you think, no umpire is out “to get” your team.

• Coaches and umpires are both human. Coaches make coaching errors and umpires make umpiring errors.

• Each head coach is expected to share this code with parents of his/her team members.

• Each head coach is expected to make his/her assistants aware of this code. It applies to any coach, not just the one whose signature appears below.

Each umpire has seen this code and is; therefore, instructed to remove any coach violating it.

[PeteBooth]

Had that not worked I would have probably have tossed an assistant.

Warren I agree with Rich ( a rarity - Just kidding Rich) , in that you do not toss the assistant because of a fan.

if the Fan is THAT bad, simply stop the game. If someone is "right there" and can get rid of the fan continue. otherwise stop the game.

Write-up a report to my assignor telling him what happened and off I go.

FWIW: Get paid at the BEGINNING of the game during the plate conference. No pay No play.

Pete Booth

[Jboval]

Ok, so this past weekend I had an experience on the 'other side of the fence' that has to do with this situation....

My kid is playing in the District "Tournament of Champions" for 9 year olds. First game of the day, early in the game, and no issues or chirping from the crown previously. In other words, there was no tension between the umps and crowd yet.

On a grounder, F4 fields the ball, then attempts to make a tag on R1 heading to 2nd. It was close enough that from the stands we couldn't tell if he was safe or out. F4 apparently believed that he made the tag, because he looks at U2 standing in deep C while holding the ball out. U2's repsonse is to stand there and stare at the kid. I am like "Uh.. where's the call??" Granted, the kid should of thrown the ball to F3 for the put out at first, but honestly, there were 2 outs and he thought he had made the final out, no to mention he's a 9yr old. Anyways, next batter comes up, they make the play at first, inning over.

In between innings, once I am done shaking my head, in a totally calm and non smart aleck way, I say to PU who is standing by the fence about 10' away, "Hey there blue, could you ask the base ump next time on an attempted play to make a signal so our boys know what to do with the ball?" I wasn't being a jerk, and wasn't trying to show him up. I have a little experience here on his side of the fence, so I say it nicely and in a 'buddy to buddy' type of way so as not to make him think I was being a jerk. I figured he would just ignore me and go on about his game and maybe in the next break he would hopefully say something to his guy. Nope! He turns right around and starts in on me: "Well I guess it wasn't that close of a play now was it?"... well, ask me a question like that, and now you're gonna get an answer pal - "Well it was an attempted play, and the ump needs to make a call" - "Well that is why we don't umpire from the stands, another word out of you and I will clear the field and have you kicked out of here!!" - "Wow blue, I was just asking a question, no need to get all worked up, you sure do have some thin skin to be doing this job if you think you need to threaten to kick me out because of that comment" Then he just proceeds to stare at me, seemingly daring me to say something else. It was surreal how something could get so blown out of proportion over a little issue like that. These were 'professional' District umps, patched and I think even the guy on the bases was nominated to do some Sectional LL playoffs. It just blew my mind that he would blow a call that badly (not that the kid wasn't safe, but to make absolutely no signal of out or safe while standing 15' away from the play), and then to have the PU just go off on me.. it was just really a shock. It makes me appreciate how I handle, and how our local umps handle, these type of situations.

[BrianC14]

Ok, so this past weekend I had an experience on the 'other side of the fence' that has to do with this situation....

My kid is playing in the District "Tournament of Champions" for 9 year olds. First game of the day, early in the game, and no issues or chirping from the crown previously. In other words, there was no tension between the umps and crowd yet.

On a grounder, F4 fields the ball, then attempts to make a tag on R1 heading to 2nd. It was close enough that from the stands we couldn't tell if he was safe or out. F4 apparently believed that he made the tag, because he looks at U2 standing in deep C while holding the ball out. U2's repsonse is to stand there and stare at the kid. I am like "Uh.. where's the call??" Granted, the kid should of thrown the ball to F3 for the put out at first, but honestly, there were 2 outs and he thought he had made the final out, no to mention he's a 9yr old. Anyways, next batter comes up, they make the play at first, inning over.

In between innings, once I am done shaking my head, in a totally calm and non smart aleck way, I say to PU who is standing by the fence about 10' away, "Hey there blue, could you ask the base ump next time on an attempted play to make a signal so our boys know what to do with the ball?" I wasn't being a jerk, and wasn't trying to show him up. I have a little experience here on his side of the fence, so I say it nicely and in a 'buddy to buddy' type of way so as not to make him think I was being a jerk. I figured he would just ignore me and go on about his game and maybe in the next break he would hopefully say something to his guy. Nope! He turns right around and starts in on me: "Well I guess it wasn't that close of a play now was it?"... well, ask me a question like that, and now you're gonna get an answer pal - "Well it was an attempted play, and the ump needs to make a call" - "Well that is why we don't umpire from the stands, another word out of you and I will clear the field and have you kicked out of here!!" - "Wow blue, I was just asking a question, no need to get all worked up, you sure do have some thin skin to be doing this job if you think you need to threaten to kick me out because of that comment" Then he just proceeds to stare at me, seemingly daring me to say something else. It was surreal how something could get so blown out of proportion over a little issue like that. These were 'professional' District umps, patched and I think even the guy on the bases was nominated to do some Sectional LL playoffs. It just blew my mind that he would blow a call that badly (not that the kid wasn't safe, but to make absolutely no signal of out or safe while standing 15' away from the play), and then to have the PU just go off on me.. it was just really a shock. It makes me appreciate how I handle, and how our local umps handle, these type of situations.

If you "figured he would just ignore you", then why bother saying anything to him at all?

True, the guy was a tool for responding, but how would you feel if that were done to you?

How do you know that the base umpire isn't perhaps senior to the plate umpire. Would YOU feel compelled to go and correct the base umpire if he were senior to you? If not, then why attempt to suggest to the plate umpire how he should act?

And lastly - have you ever made a poor decision on a baseball field?

[Jboval]

If you "figured he would just ignore you", then why bother saying anything to him at all?

True, the guy was a tool for responding, but how would you feel if that were done to you?

How do you know that the base umpire isn't perhaps senior to the plate umpire. Would YOU feel compelled to go and correct the base umpire if he were senior to you? If not, then why attempt to suggest to the plate umpire how he should act?

And lastly - have you ever made a poor decision on a baseball field?

1. Well, I figured even though he ignored me, he would 'hear' me.

2. Don't know, don't care. Yes, I would feel compelled to ask my base ump why he didn't make a call on an attempted play, if not during the game, then after. Would I have done so if someone hadn't 'pointed it out', probably not.

3. Were you the idiot base umpire that didn't make a call on a close tag?? Or do you just like to argue?:hopmad:

[BrianC14]

1. Well, I figured even though he ignored me, he would 'hear' me.

2. Don't know, don't care. Yes, I would feel compelled to ask my base ump why he didn't make a call on an attempted play, if not during the game, then after. Would I have done so if someone hadn't 'pointed it out', probably not.

3. Were you the idiot base umpire that didn't make a call on a close tag?? Or do you just like to argue?

No, as it happens, I wasn't the "idiot" base umpire in question. Or do you just like anonymously insulting people on public forums? But it's pretty evident who the know-it-all is here. Do you often bark instructions at umpires from the safety of your free bleacher seat at games played by 9 year olds?

Please do let us know when your next game is, and we can try and attend and openly criticize your performance, Mr. Perfect. I can't wait to experience the sheer intensity and pressure that must come from umpiring games played by 9 year old kids. It should be real instructional. Until then, you can cram it with walnuts, buddy boy.

Edited June 23, 2010 by BrianC14

[Thunderheads]

Kids , kids, kids, .....please .....for God's sake,....

You both look/sound like two umpires looking for a fight in two totally different ways:BD:

How about HTBT ......I don't think his question to the ump was made to be in a know it all kind of way, but more like, a nice way to say WTF .....

Brian, I think you took it the wrong way ....

Now, both of you, go to the dugout and don't come out till we say ! ;)

[Aging_Arbiter]

Don't MAKE me turn this car around................

[Jboval]

Seriously.. I really do think you are the same guy....

Thin skin, taking things personal, and blowing something really small WAY out of proportion....

Read the post again... I was pretty clear about what I said, why I said it, and most importantly of all, how I said it. None of it was an attack, it was meant just as Thunderheads took it, a nice way to say Trust me, I have never had a fan disagree with me in such a nice and professional way as I did with him, and on the flip side, I have never responded to a fan in such a horrible way as he did with me. His base ump was wrong, he knew it, and instead of saying nothing and moving on, he decided to strike out at me like I was some heckling fan that had been up his all night.

My problem with you Brian is that it seems every time I post something you are more than happy to jump in with both feet and blast away how I handled the situation. Matter of fact, every time anyone posts anything, that seems to be your M.O.

I did not try to throw the call back in the umpires face and belittle him in front of others, I just tried to show him that I disagreed with the call in a professional, courteous and mild manner... something that you could do well to try and emulate, in my opinion. I am done with this... thanks for your very well thought out and constructive criticism.. I have learned an awful lot If anyone needs anything else, I will be right over here... with my walnuts.. :hopmad:

[BrianC14]

Seriously.. I really do think you are the same guy....

Thin skin, taking things personal, and blowing something really small WAY out of proportion....

Read the post again... I was pretty clear about what I said, why I said it, and most importantly of all, how I said it. None of it was an attack, it was meant just as Thunderheads took it, a nice way to say Trust me, I have never had a fan disagree with me in such a nice and professional way as I did with him, and on the flip side, I have never responded to a fan in such a horrible way as he did with me. His base ump was wrong, he knew it, and instead of saying nothing and moving on, he decided to strike out at me like I was some heckling fan that had been up his all night.

My problem with you Brian is that it seems every time I post something you are more than happy to jump in with both feet and blast away how I handled the situation. Matter of fact, every time anyone posts anything, that seems to be your M.O.

I did not try to throw the call back in the umpires face and belittle him in front of others, I just tried to show him that I disagreed with the call in a professional, courteous and mild manner... something that you could do well to try and emulate, in my opinion. I am done with this... thanks for your very well thought out and constructive criticism.. I have learned an awful lot If anyone needs anything else, I will be right over here... with my walnuts..

I don't know what's funnier - that you think any umpire should immediately listen to what you have to say from behind the fence, or the fact that you think you've gotten under my skin. Either one cracks me up.

If you haven't learned anything about NOT doing what you did, then that's your problem. So let me point out the obvious: is your ego that huge that you take it upon yourself to question an umpire's mechanics during a game from behind the fence and in front of the assembled parents? And you're upset because he didn't take your advice and immediately correct his partner?

You obviously wouldn't like something like that done to you, but you obviously see no problem in doing it to someone else. Like I said, the guy was a tool for responding to you, but you're a tool for trying to put on a clinic while those guys are working their game. "Oh my gosh -that umpire made a mistake! I have to go correct them, PDQ!"

As though approaching them AFTER the game in private and discussing it umpire-to-umpire / man-to-man would have been impossible?

[ukce1861]

J, I'm not trying to pick on you but I tend to agree with Brian on this one. Put yourself in the PU's shoes for a minute. I don't care how nicely you said it, unless it was quiet enough for only you and him to hear it, I would look at it as someone's who's trying to show me and/or my partner up.

Plus, what have you just showed the other fans? Undoubtedly some of them know you're an umpire, which makes you the foremost authority on all things umpiring. You've just given them carte-blanche to unleash anything on these guys. I mean, even you admit they don't know what they're doing... I'm sure you've seen it. One fan says something, which gets all the others going. As an ump, you shouldn't be that one...

Again, I'm not trying to pick a fight - I'm just saying maybe you should consider doing it differently in the future and how your actions might be perceived...

As though approaching them AFTER the game in private and discussing it umpire-to-umpire / man-to-man would have been impossible?

Have you ever tried to approach a LL umpire after the game? Come on, we go with our security escort straight to the locker room under the stadium, where we shower, eat, etc... We're untouchable.:hopmad:

[boyinr]

One of the hardest things I have found as an umpire is being a simple fan and watching my son and daughter play.

In the past I have coached both baseball and softball in our town for many seasons. Now that I am known as a umpire, I get a lot of questions from my fellow parents. The rules related ones are easy and I have never found myself at odds with a decision on the field. Judgement calls are quickly dismissed by "he has a different angle, I am sure he called what he saw". The tougher ones are the game control ones (profanity, arguing, malicious contact, dugout behavior, etc....).

I have never felt the uncontrollable need to approach an umpire before, during or after a game about thier work. (I have however, remained seated and silently critical while relecting on a no cost learning moment).