Quieting a fan

[Rich Ives]

Of course you can, especially if your local rules allow for it.

Shouldn't this read:

Of course you can, ONLY if your local rules allow for it.

[wek29]

I honestly don't know if our league allows us to dump the coach for fan behavior. We can dump the fan however. This is funny though because I told a coach once to let his parents know they were getting out of hand and he told them I was going to dump him if they didn't back down...I didn't feel the need to correct him. Note - I was letting him know because I feel it's a smoother approach than calling out the fans myself. I know the coach can't always control the situation so I will go directly to the fan(s) as needed.

[PeteBooth]

Also, as a coach, I don't feel I should be responsible for my fans. I have no control over them.

Yes you do. From my experience the coaches KNOW who the "loud mouths" are. At the beginning of the season the manager or coach should have a meeting with the parents - make it mandatory. Explain to them that rude behavior will NOT be tolerated.

Explain to them that if the game is stopped it has the potential of costing OUR team a game. I realize this is a free country and you cannot STOP anyone (other than for legal reasons) from coming to the game BUT you can get your point across at the beginning of the season.

The umpire is in charge of the game per se. He/She should have authority to deal with fans, but there should always be one person in charge of the place who is not involved with the game.

You are mistaken. Umpires do NOT have authority to deal with fans. In extreme cases we call the police. We can STOP the game BUT we do not EJ Fans or engage in fans.

If you constantly have "loud mouth" fans at your games it most likely will cost you a game. Your team depending upon the severity of the fan behavior could also face suspension. You will have to look elsewhere for umpires because as word "gets around" umpire associations will NOT service you OR if they do service you, you will get the umpiring crew (and all associations have them) that are strictly there for the money, Smitty Type and couldn't care less what you do as long as they get paid. This type of umpiring crew would stop the game in a "heartbeat" and get an easy pay-day.

In summary: As a coach you SHOULD have some control over YOUR fans. Unfortunately if one fan cannot control themselves the kid will suffer because you will have no other recourse then to cut him.

Pete Booth

[Rich Ives]

How many of you have spent any significant time as a manger/coach?

If you, as manager/coach, have your head in the game you absolutely positively do NOT have a clue as to what's going on in the stands. You have too much going on in managing the players and the conduct of the game (and the occasional expression as to how the officials are doing) to even think about what's going on in the stands.

[PeteBooth]

If you, as manager/coach, have your head in the game you absolutely positively do NOT have a clue as to what's going on in the stands.

Rich we are talking VERY LOUD behavior. After a bad call is made and you hear "Hey Blue get your head out of your a**" or blue your fu****g horrible and it did not come from your bench you KNOW where it came from.

Yes I coached and whenever the umpire asked me "Pete what's the deal with that "person" I KNEW who said person was.

A coach can tell because most likely this "loud mouth" fan also gives the coach a hard time as well when it comes to playing time for their son/daughter.

I agree during a play etc. a coach will not know what the fans are doing BUT after the play when things are a bit quiet and then you hear what I quoted above IMO, the coach SHOULD have a clue who it was.

Like I said at least in my experiences the coaches KNOW who the loud mouths are.

Pete Booth

[Rich Ives]

Rich we are talking VERY LOUD behavior. After a bad call is made and you hear "Hey Blue get your head out of your a**" or blue your fu****g horrible and it did not come from your bench you KNOW where it came from.

Yes I coached and whenever the umpire asked me "Pete what's the deal with that "person" I KNEW who said person was.

A coach can tell because most likely this "loud mouth" fan also gives the coach a hard time as well when it comes to playing time for their son/daughter.

I agree during a play etc. a coach will not know what the fans are doing BUT after the play when things are a bit quiet and then you hear what I quoted above IMO, the coach SHOULD have a clue who it was.

Like I said at least in my experiences the coaches KNOW who the loud mouths are.

Pete Booth

Pete - I honestly never heard the stuff from the stands. I'd bet most coaches don't. They'll probably know who their obnoxious fans are so can answer the "what's the deal" question - but I'd bet a substantial sum that most of them never heard the comment you are asking about.

[TNCoach]

Yes you do. From my experience the coaches KNOW who the "loud mouths" are. At the beginning of the season the manager or coach should have a meeting with the parents - make it mandatory. Explain to them that rude behavior will NOT be tolerated.

Explain to them that if the game is stopped it has the potential of costing OUR team a game. I realize this is a free country and you cannot STOP anyone (other than for legal reasons) from coming to the game BUT you can get your point across at the beginning of the season.

You are mistaken. Umpires do NOT have authority to deal with fans. In extreme cases we call the police. We can STOP the game BUT we do not EJ Fans or engage in fans.

If you constantly have "loud mouth" fans at your games it most likely will cost you a game. Your team depending upon the severity of the fan behavior could also face suspension. You will have to look elsewhere for umpires because as word "gets around" umpire associations will NOT service you OR if they do service you, you will get the umpiring crew (and all associations have them) that are strictly there for the money, Smitty Type and couldn't care less what you do as long as they get paid. This type of umpiring crew would stop the game in a "heartbeat" and get an easy pay-day.

In summary: As a coach you SHOULD have some control over YOUR fans. Unfortunately if one fan cannot control themselves the kid will suffer because you will have no other recourse then to cut him.

Pete Booth

I said should have authority, not that you do. At my games, we do have a game administrator. We don't have security at our baseball games, but I am also a basketball coach and we do at those.

I understand telling my parents what should happen. I do that. I just don't feel that once a game starts that I should have to deal with anything happening outside the fences. My job is to win the game, not worry about an idiot parent. The umpires job is to keep control of what is going on inside the fence. There should be an administrator there to keep control of outside. If not, I think an umpire should have the authority to toss parents.

As a side note, how many of you coach players during a game? Not saying it is bad or good. Just wondering.

[Mr Umpire]

As a side note, how many of you coach players during a game? Not saying it is bad or good. Just wondering.

Not me. I am not giving advice and they get it wrong. Then, blame me as if I told them wrong. The only instruction I give is why I called something. They learn how to correct it from someone else.

I don't get paid to do 2 jobs even though most rec coaches don't get paid to do 1 job. But, some do for the travel teams.

[mstaylor]

Rich, I spent several years as a manager and if my parents got out of control I would shut them down. I remember one game where the PU made a completely correct call that riled my parents and they got bad. I went out to talk to the plate umpire and telling my parents very forcefully that I had it and to back off. I went to the PU and told him I understood what he had, that it was correct and let's play baseball. I then went to the stands and reamed my parents for being jerks and wrong.

[catoblue]

How many of you have spent any significant time as a manger/coach?

If you, as manager/coach, have your head in the game you absolutely positively do NOT have a clue as to what's going on in the stands. You have too much going on in managing the players and the conduct of the game (and the occasional expression as to how the officials are doing) to even think about what's going on in the stands.

Rich, this is quite the month!!!! Yet again, I am in full agreement with you.

I coached for 15 years, and NEVER once even gave any thought to anything going on outside the fence unless someone did something and another coach or umpire brought it to my attention. When I umpire, my focus is on the field, when I was coaching, my focus was on the field, and the dugout (keep the kids from horseplay) and the lineup and who is where on the field and have I subbed in everybody to get their MPR and what is the pitch count and how many balls, strikes, outs on the batter, and on and on. As a manager, there are too many important things going on to allow yourself to be distracted by people outside the fence.

If I were paying attention to the fans, I wouldn't be doing my job as a manager. You will always have PIA parents, and if they become a problem, then me as a coach will suggest to the umpire that he place both teams on the bench until the offender leaves. As an umpire, I won't wait until someone suggests that is what I do, I just do it.

There is no need to EJ a coach or anyone for that matter. The rules provide the solution and that is to stop play. Easy-peasy.

As a coach and as an umpire - the fans DO NOT EXIST.

[PeteBooth]

My job is to win the game, not worry about an idiot parent. The umpires job is to keep control of what is going on inside the fence. There should be an administrator there to keep control of outside. If not, I think an umpire should have the authority to toss parents.

Your are MISSING the point. Umpires DO NOT have authority to toss parents.

In "theory" I agree with you. There should be a league administrator present who handles crowd control, BUT this is the REAL world and this is not always the case.

You said your job is to WIN the game. Guess what! These idiot parents (unless you take care of it) can cost you a ball game and that ball game might mean the difference of YOUR team getting into the play-offs or advancing during a tournament.

It's like this:

7 inning game and you are HT. We are in the bottom of 5, VT up 5-4. There is a play at the plate where your RUNNER is called out (the 3rd out) for an illegal slide. The FANS go "nuts" and are becoming uncontrollable.

Since you said it's NOT your job to control YOUR fans here is what happens.

UIC of game to both managers - This game is OVER.

Now the "fate" of the game is in the hands of the league administrators. We have an official game (5 complete innings) and we also have a potential winner meaning VT ahead 5-4 after 5 complete. It's my feeling depending upon scheduling etc. that the game will become offiical because it was YOUR fans who caused the comotion.

As mentioned above, this game could cost you a playoff spot or further advancement in tournament play.

The bottom line is that Officials do not "get into it" with fans.

if it's a HS game and the AD is present We ask the AD to handle. if the AD is NOT there we ask the HC to handle. If no-one handles, the game is stopped and the league administrators will decide if the game is to be resumed or not.

Pete Booth

[spiritump]

what does the coach have to do with the fans---only worry between the white line--makes life easier.

[spiritump]

Your are MISSING the point. Umpires DO NOT have authority to toss parents.

In "theory" I agree with you. There should be a league administrator present who handles crowd control, BUT this is the REAL world and this is not always the case.

You said your job is to WIN the game. Guess what! These idiot parents (unless you take care of it) can cost you a ball game and that ball game might mean the difference of YOUR team getting into the play-offs or advancing during a tournament.

7 inning game and you are HT. We are in the bottom of 5, VT up 5-4. There is a play at the plate where your RUNNER is called out (the 3rd out) for an illegal slide. The FANS go "nuts" and are becoming uncontrollable.

Since you said it's NOT your job to control YOUR fans here is what happens.

UIC of game to both managers - This game is OVER.

Now the "fate" of the game is in the hands of the league administrators. We have an official game (5 complete innings) and we also have a potential winner meaning VT ahead 5-4 after 5 complete. It's my feeling depending upon scheduling etc. that the game will become offiical because it was YOUR fans who caused the comotion.

As mentioned above, this game could cost you a playoff spot or further advancement in tournament play.

The bottom line is that Officials do not "get into it" with fans.

if it's a HS game and the AD is present We ask the AD to handle. if the AD is NOT there we ask the HC to handle. If no-one handles, the game is stopped and the league administrators will decide if the game is to be resumed or not.

Pete Booth

Pete--you should only worry about the field--you are only a ump --who care that some parents are mad--you should never stop a game for that reason what good will it do-show YOU ARE IN CHARGE--as umps we are not bigger than the game.

[spiritump]

J, I'm not trying to pick on you but I tend to agree with Brian on this one. Put yourself in the PU's shoes for a minute. I don't care how nicely you said it, unless it was quiet enough for only you and him to hear it, I would look at it as someone's who's trying to show me and/or my partner up.

Plus, what have you just showed the other fans? Undoubtedly some of them know you're an umpire, which makes you the foremost authority on all things umpiring. You've just given them carte-blanche to unleash anything on these guys. I mean, even you admit they don't know what they're doing... I'm sure you've seen it. One fan says something, which gets all the others going. As an ump, you shouldn't be that one...

Again, I'm not trying to pick a fight - I'm just saying maybe you should consider doing it differently in the future and how your actions might be perceived...QUOTE]

good points... I am sure someone overheard my comment to the PU, but it was said as a conversational manner since he was standing very, very close to me. It was not said in a 'loud mouth, everyone listen to me' type of situation or manner. However, everyone certainly got to hear him when he went bonkers on me and brought the attention to our 'discussion', which is what really set me aback. Yep, probably shouldn't of said anything, but honestly, when I have booted a call, I tend to take my licks and grin and bear it. I earned it, so I take it. This honestly would be like an umpire telling you he was gonna toss out a coach because he asked "hey blue, could you ask for help on that check swing?"... it was that ridiculous.

Again, my point in relaying the story was to say that umpires need to learn how to handle fans in a constructive manner, which is to say, not at all. This was NOT one of the examples on how to do it. Just like when I was younger and engaged a fan in a heated conversation, every close call from then on ended up getting me an earful of from people that wanted to get a rise out of me. Only happened to me once, and I learned my lesson.

this story has two tools you and the plate ump who answerd you

[PeteBooth]

Pete--you should only worry about the field--you are only a ump --who care that some parents are mad--you should never stop a game for that reason what good will it do-show YOU ARE IN CHARGE--as umps we are not bigger than the game.

We are talking about EXTREME cases here. If a fan gets mad so what i could care less. We are talking about a situation where the fans behavior is making it almost impossible to play the game. We could have fans threatening an umpire or causing all kinds of comotion which DO effect the game.

I agree in your average run of the mill game where fans get upset who cares BUT once they become unruly the game can turn ugly in a heartbeat. If the fan cannot control their behavior then they should NOT be allowed to come to the game.

FWIW: I worked in a league that had a ZERO tolerance policy and I mean ZERO tolerance. The league "cleaned-up" all the loud mouth fans by simply banning them. The umpires had the FULL cooperation and support of the League Pres. What a pleasure to work in this league. Also, this league had NO problem getting umpires.

Pete Booth

[mstaylor]

I will give you an example of the extreme. I worked a state tournament years back where the final two teams faced each other in the first game of the bracket. The same team was loosing and the fans got unruly enough that they were throwing stuff on the field over the screen. The DA tried to restore order and he was threatened. The police were summoned and they responded including two mounted officers. The game was finished, the umpires were escorted off to their cars and nothing further happened.

This is a case to halt the game and either the game aministrators or the police have to take care of the problem.

[cardinalfan]

As far as the OP, I recently became friends with an ex-professional wrestler. I was introduced by a mutual friend. This guy had a great career as far up as WWE and TNA.

As we talked about the business, he made this comment: The other guy and the ref weren't the enemy... the people on the inside of the ropes are the only SOB's in the place I actually knew... the folks in the seats were the enemy!

I thought of this thread when he said that!

[yerout13]

That's when you go next to him between innings and sit down and yell "balls in" .....and when he questions what you're doing ,.....you say 'well, you seem to have the perfect view from here, so I figured I'd call the game from your vantage point" ............

I know, umpire urban legend, but I had to!!

LOL @ that

[yerout13]

had one recently on me about everything, pitches, calls etc, walked by the group he was with and said "darn, and here I wanted to please everyone tonight" , said it with some sarcasm in the tone....just in passing... pretty much quited them down the rest of the game