I think I made a horrible mistake....

[scrounge]

I think I made a terrible mistake and cost a team a win. Not only that, it was the 1st round of the single elimination end of season tournament. And I feel utterly disgusted at myself.

11/12 yr old, decent level ball - in between rec league and travel. Great night, fabulous game, visiting team down one run with two outs in top of last regulation inning. Batter has 2 strikes, balls don't matter. He swings and the ball obviously hits his hands. The ball goes to the pitcher who throws him out. I call time and confer with partner in B quickly to confirm that it hit his hands. We both agree. I remembered that a swing, even if it hits you, is a strike. Partner (youth umpire) gave me the old 'hands are part of the bat' myth, which I corrected. That must have distracted me or something, because I ruled the batter back to the plate. I dunno, I knew it was an immediate dead ball but the ball going into fair territory threw me. I thought it was like a foul ball, a strike but not strike three and out.

Wouldn't you know it - the kid gets a hit and ends up scoring. They go two extra innings and eventually win the game. I ran home and immediately hit the rule book, which didn't really answer my question. But the case book was unequivocal - it was an immediate dead ball but should have been strike three. The home team was down to their last strike and by all rights lost the game right there - till I stepped in. And now I'm sick about it - I feel like a criminal. I can't imagine there's any recourse at this point. This feeling sucks, but I deserve it.

I know we all kick one from time to time, but it's gotta be (mercifully) rare to have such a direct, unambiguous, indefensible impact on a game like blowing a rule on the last strike. Ugh...

[UmpJM]

scrounge,

Hey, maybe the ball hit the bat first and THEN hit his hands, Are you 100% SURE it didn't?

For your penance, meditate on the first clause of the first sentence of the OBR rules for one hour straight - and NO BEER while you're doing it!

Then you will be absolved. Go forth and sin no more.

(In other words, EVERYONE kicks one now and then. Put it behind you and don't make THAT mistake again.)

JM

[UmpTTS43]

Dont beat yourself up too much about it. You will NEVER get that call wrong again.

As far as costing a team a game, forget about it. There were plenty of outs and innings played for them to get a winner. Put the loss on the coach. If he would have known the rule, he could have brought it up and it might have rung a bell with you.

Good judgement comes from experience, Experience comes from poor judgement.

Chalk one up for experience.

[plateumpire29]

Hey Scrounge, let me tell you a story. It was my very first year and I was one of the up and coming young lions. I was talented and working hard and my assignor was rewarding me with better games with every assignment period. I was working a 14 year old travel game ( back then the kids who played travel really were a cut above ) behind the plate. It was a great game, the lead changing hands several times. Long story short, I completely blew a call to end the game, costing the losing team a chance at a tie game. My partner threw me under the bus ( I believe he just wanted to go home ) and I was absolutely sick about it. It must have been so terribly obvious how horrible I felt that the losing coach didn't even have the heart to yell that much. When I got home (this was before Cell phones) I called my assignor and told him I wanted to quit because of what I did to this team. He told me that he wished that he had a hundred guys like me, who took the job with such seriousness and passion. He told me that that was just one of 200-250 calls during the course of that game and no one call wins or loses a game for a team. Then he asked me if I would ever make the same mistake again. I said absolutely not. After that call I felt tremendous relief, and needless to say, didn't quit. I have gone on to work six state final fours, including two state championship games, nearly twenty consecutive regional assignments, not to mention D1-3 college for seventeen years. My point is, nothing can replace the type of passion that produces those feelings when you screw one up. Its that type of passion that will make you a good one.

[mstaylor]

I completely agree with plateumpire29, you will make mistakes, some pivotable to a game. There is nothing you can do about it except learn from it and not make the same mistake. I was in the exact spot a few years ago where I misapplied a rule, game should have been over but it was extended because of my mistake. The hometeam then couldn't get another out and ended up going to extra innings which the visitors won. This was in a regional HS tournament and I beat myself up horribly, to make matters worse is I am the rules interpreter, I shouldn't make mistakes like that. The good thing is you feel bad and are beating yourself up, it means you care about what you do.

[JaxRolo]

I personally have never ever blown a call! Just kidding!!! Actually never blown a call that cost a team the game. There is no way. It seems that it is your fault they lost but NO!!! There were many chances for a team to score more or hold the other team and they blew it.

It happens. I used to feel bad about it but I don't anymore. Just move on to the next one and get that one correct.

[Thunderheads]

scrounge , .... forget it ....it's done, ...and THAT call did NOT determine the game, ....these other guys are right!

NOW ....

back to the ruling ....(for me )

Dead ball swinging third strike, batter is out, regardless of the play, correct?

[ukce1861]

Dead ball swinging third strike, batter is out, regardless of the play, correct?

Yes. In my opinion, one of the more impressive ways to end a game.

"Time! Strike Three! Batter's Out!" And you walk off the field while everyone gapes in stunned silence. It's awesome...:meditation:

[noumpere]

I think I made a terrible mistake

Maybe

and cost a team a win.

No way because the team had plenty of opportunities to win on their own and while this call may have effected the game it didnt cost them the game

[scrounge]

Thanks so much for the responses, it helped a lot. I still feel sick about it, but you're right, it was just one call among hundreds. It was a great game, too, perhaps the most entertaining of the 100 or so games I did this year. Lively crowd, back and forth play, fun situations, close plays. And I think I got every single one of them spot on right - except of course the final yak.

Fortunately (I guess), no one even knew the rule about immediate dead ball and I sold it REAL well. No argument, not even from parents in the stands. Hopefully they don't read this forum!

[cyclonehokiece]

Learn from your mistakes. We all have kicked one that we feel bad about. We learn, and we move on.

[Texarkana]

I think I made a terrible mistake and cost a team a win. Not only that, it was the 1st round of the single elimination end of season tournament. And I feel utterly disgusted at myself.

11/12 yr old, decent level ball - in between rec league and travel. Great night, fabulous game, visiting team down one run with two outs in top of last regulation inning. Batter has 2 strikes, balls don't matter. He swings and the ball obviously hits his hands. The ball goes to the pitcher who throws him out. I call time and confer with partner in B quickly to confirm that it hit his hands. We both agree. I remembered that a swing, even if it hits you, is a strike. Partner (youth umpire) gave me the old 'hands are part of the bat' myth, which I corrected. That must have distracted me or something, because I ruled the batter back to the plate. I dunno, I knew it was an immediate dead ball but the ball going into fair territory threw me. I thought it was like a foul ball, a strike but not strike three and out.

Wouldn't you know it - the kid gets a hit and ends up scoring. They go two extra innings and eventually win the game. I ran home and immediately hit the rule book, which didn't really answer my question. But the case book was unequivocal - it was an immediate dead ball but should have been strike three. The home team was down to their last strike and by all rights lost the game right there - till I stepped in. And now I'm sick about it - I feel like a criminal. I can't imagine there's any recourse at this point. This feeling sucks, but I deserve it.

I know we all kick one from time to time, but it's gotta be (mercifully) rare to have such a direct, unambiguous, indefensible impact on a game like blowing a rule on the last strike. Ugh...

It was refreshing to read this. No doubt that you will NEVER make this mistake again. The reason I find it refreshing is because you care. If a person cares they get better. They get better because they try harder, practice more, listen to good umpires more because they want to do the best job they can possibly do. People that call ball only for the money usually stand out. They stand out because they do not care and the attitude usually spills over and shows. You got a great lesson in a dead ball strike. I remember about five years ago I kicked a call that was just obvious. It still screws with me today. Because I care. Keep up your caring, good attitude and you will continue to get games and get better games. I read where someone called 200 games this year and I was trying to add up how many I think I have called. Probably close to that number. The better you get, the more the phone rings.

[kylejt]

Wait!

The batter swung, and the ball hit his hands. You got the rule interpretation wrong, but where, oh where was the D manager in all this?

Hey pal, feel free to feel bad, but that manager should take at least half the blame on this. If he didn't protest that call, HE cost his team the game, not you. A protest could have brought in a new voice to the thinking, and gotten it right.

Yeah, you made a mistake, You'll make more, trust me. Just like the rest of us. It's what happens next that counts. Can you put this behind you, learn from it, and move on.

When I come off the field with a crew of Junior umpires, I always ask them the same three questions:

What did you do right?

What did you do wrong?

What can you do to get better?

Knowing you kicked one is a good thing, Some guys think they never do. Just don't dwell on it.

[Rich Ives]

Wait!

The batter swung, and the ball hit his hands. You got the rule interpretation wrong, but where, oh where was the D manager in all this?

Hey pal, feel free to feel bad, but that manager should take at least half the blame on this. If he didn't protest that call, HE cost his team the game, not you. A protest could have brought in a new voice to the thinking, and gotten it right.

Yeah, you made a mistake, You'll make more, trust me. Just like the rest of us. It's what happens next that counts. Can you put this behind you, learn from it, and move on.

When I come off the field with a crew of Junior umpires, I always ask them the same three questions:

What did you do right?

What did you do wrong?

What can you do to get better?

Knowing you kicked one is a good thing, Some guys think they never do. Just don't dwell on it.

So Kyle, if you did better coach training they'd know it wasn't a foul ball

I am a bit mystified as to why the OP said the rule book didn't answer the question

6.05 A batter is out when—

(f) He attempts to hit a third strike and the ball touches him;

[scrounge]

Ah, left out it was a FED rules game....

Wait!

The batter swung, and the ball hit his hands. You got the rule interpretation wrong, but where, oh where was the D manager in all this?

Hey pal, feel free to feel bad, but that manager should take at least half the blame on this. If he didn't protest that call, HE cost his team the game, not you. A protest could have brought in a new voice to the thinking, and gotten it right.

Yeah, you made a mistake, You'll make more, trust me. Just like the rest of us. It's what happens next that counts. Can you put this behind you, learn from it, and move on.

When I come off the field with a crew of Junior umpires, I always ask them the same three questions:

What did you do right?

What did you do wrong?

What can you do to get better?

Knowing you kicked one is a good thing, Some guys think they never do. Just don't dwell on it.

So Kyle, if you did better coach training they'd know it wasn't a foul ball

I am a bit mystified as to why the OP said the rule book didn't answer the question

6.05 A batter is out when—

(f) He attempts to hit a third strike and the ball touches him;

[yawetag]

Ah, left out it was a FED rules game....

7-2-1b: A strike is charged to the batter when a pitch is struck at and missed (even if the pitch touches the batter)

[Home of Shiner Beer]

Well...I see this happen quite a bit...Batter swings on a pitch that hits him..it is a dead ball stike.The vast majority of the time.But if the pitch strikes BOTH part of the hand and the bat at the same time and goes into play without touching any other part of the batter..you can hear the difference,the ball is in play.You then call what happens.I have had a boy break his index finger on a swing that hit both his finger and bat at the same time.He wound up on first...D coach wanted a dead ball strike called until I "SOLD" the fact that it also hit the bat.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Dude dont even sweat it.. it happens from LL guys to the MLB umps...

[UmpTTS43]

Well...I see this happen quite a bit...Batter swings on a pitch that hits him..it is a dead ball stike.The vast majority of the time.But if the pitch strikes BOTH part of the hand and the bat at the same time and goes into play without touching any other part of the batter..you can hear the difference,the ball is in play.You then call what happens.I have had a boy break his index finger on a swing that hit both his finger and bat at the same time.He wound up on first...D coach wanted a dead ball strike called until I "SOLD" the fact that it also hit the bat.

You may have "SOLD" it but you were "WRONG"

[JaxRolo]

Well...I see this happen quite a bit...Batter swings on a pitch that hits him..it is a dead ball stike.The vast majority of the time.But if the pitch strikes BOTH part of the hand and the bat at the same time and goes into play without touching any other part of the batter..you can hear the difference,the ball is in play.You then call what happens.I have had a boy break his index finger on a swing that hit both his finger and bat at the same time.He wound up on first...D coach wanted a dead ball strike called until I "SOLD" the fact that it also hit the bat.

So the ball hit the batter and you didn't call "Time" ?

[Home of Shiner Beer]

Well..good to know...so a swinging bat that hits part of the hand and part of the bat at the same time and puts the ball in play is just a dead ball strike..I then have a half dozen calls to regret.Two bunt pop-up outs that hit the finger/bat ..a couple of dings down first that went for outs aftering hitting a swinging bat/hand..the other two are a bit foggy.Well..I just learned something...been selling goods that I do not own.Thanks.

[Umpy]

I'm pretty sure that'd be a foul ball if hits the batter and the bat at the same time.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I have been acting on the assumption that if the ball hits the batter anywhere while he swings, it's a dead ball strike. I learned it at my first clinic from a MLB umpire, and I've been going with it.

Either the ball touches the batter or it does not. Touching him makes it dead immediately, period.

[kylejt]

.I have had a boy break his index finger on a swing that hit both his finger and bat at the same time.He wound up on first...D coach wanted a dead ball strike called until I "SOLD" the fact that it also hit the bat.

In actuality, it just sounded like it hit the bat. The "ping!" is reverberated through the bat, via the bones in the hand. It's easy to get fooled by the sound, and reaction of the player to the pain.

I used to use the ol' " it hit both" when I was a rookie, too. Someone set me straight, and learned to wait ever so slightly, and read the reaction, not the sound. You also need to read the fake, too.

[johnnyg08]

I've said it once, and I'll say it one more time. I'm not good enough to tell what hit what first. I will use proper timing to read the hitter's reaction and I'm going to make my call and stick with the call I make.

To say that one hit before the other on a play like that...I'm not good enough to tell the difference, if in doubt at all, it's going to be a dead ball strike three. Done. Next play please. I will also not listen to much of an argument at all either because that would be arguing balls and strikes. There are more important plays than picking fly **** out of pepper on a play like this.

There have been times where I've looked at a player's arm to see if there are stitch marks or a red mark indicating a HBP...but it's not a play to waste a ton of time arguing over.