2-man, nobody on, ground ball to F4, who is moving to his left and looking to make a throw to 1B

[SeeingEyeDog]

U1 is starting this play in A...I typically take this play as I do most other ground balls to the infield plays with one caveat. I move out into fair territory being mindful of F4's release and the throwing lane, lock into 1B on the release...and observe the play and make a call.

I had a partner this weekend who went to pro school a few years ago and he said the way I took that play is the "old way" and the "new way" they are teaching now is...U1 remains in foul territory, gets a good angle and distance...and takes the play from there.

When I asked about an overthrow and now U1 is behind the play, he said the b/r is now plate's responsibility and once b/r rounds 2b then U1 needs to bust down to the plate, announce his arrival there signifying that plate will take b/r into 3B and now b/r is bracketed.

It's 2-man...there's always compromises. I get it. What are YOU guys doing? And what are the best mechanics for this play?

~Dawg

[noumpere]

Depends on how far F4 moves to his left, or if there's a large shift and F4 is really deep..  Only go foul if he will threaten your position of if the throw will come from (nearly) behind you.  Too many see this mechanic and go foul for all balls to F4's left.

[JSam21]

I have seen no one teach this mechanic at the amateur level working the 2 umpire system. Fight to get fair, if a hard shift is on, get inside and take the play from inside. 

[jimurrayalterego]

3 hours ago, JSam21 said:

I have seen no one taught this mechanic at the amateur level working the 2 umpire system. Fight to get fair, if a hard shift is on, get inside and take the play from inside. 

The "pressure" mechanic is in my state's manual and I think I remember it in Evan's. Also shows up in an older PBUC manual. How does the inside work. Is it like a pivot?

[BLWizzRanger]

The risk of the overthrow and the BR advancing is very small since the F2 should be aligned to the backup lane with very few steps needed. I think that is the give and take on U1's positioning in foul.  There is only a very slight chance of being behind the runner.

[JSam21]

3 hours ago, jimurrayalterego said:

The "pressure" mechanic is in my state's manual and I think I remember it in Evan's. Also shows up in an older PBUC manual. How does the inside work. Is it like a pivot?

Essentially. Just get in and get out of the throwing lane. 

[DevildogUmp]

Well, that mechanic isn't listed in the CCA and I've never seen it taught. From a personal perspective, that sounds like a horrible mechanic. PU is trailing the BR on the foul line watching his responsibilities and if he is lucky is maybe 20 - 25 feet up the line when the ball is thrown to 1st base. He then needs to get in a foot race with the BR to 2nd? I wouldn't dump that on any of my partners when working the field.

As a standard mechanic, U1 can only go foul for a play at first base in 3 or 4-man where there is no secondary responsibility for the BR advancing. At least that is what I have always been taught.

I'm normally only a step or 2 off the line anyway for an infield play at 1st these days. Since I moved from going to the "90" to tighter to the foul line, I don't think I've really ever felt squeezed by F4 ranging to the line. 

[The Man in Blue]

Guess I am lost on what the advantage is to be gained with U1 staying in foul territory (behind the play).

Like @DevildogUmp said, there is no way I am putting it on my PU to bust ass to 2nd base.  There is no way most PUs in my area would ever get there.

[jimurrayalterego]

24 minutes ago, DevildogUmp said:

Well, that mechanic isn't listed in the CCA

Is any mechanic regarding taking plays at 1B given except "move into the best position"?

 

11 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Guess I am lost on what the advantage is to be gained with U1 staying in foul territory (behind the play).

 

Evans and PBUC (and my state) would allow pressure to put U1 foul. Evans and PBUC envisioned "not your partners".

[The Man in Blue]

You know, it would help if my brain would properly envision "to his left" . . . no, "to his other left" . . . 

To me, this makes more sense if we are talking about F3, not F4.  

[DevildogUmp]

5 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

Is any mechanic regarding taking plays at 1B given except "move into the best position"?

 

 

No, but the mechanic gram only shows U1 going fair. Additionally. 5.5 Positioning for Taking Plays tells us that while the manual doesn't depict actual positions, umpires take plays from the position they deem most advantageous without taking themselves out of position for the next play. I submit that U1 going foul and expecting the Plate to take the BR into 2nd (and possibly 3rd) takes both umpires out of position for the next play.

[jimurrayalterego]

1 minute ago, DevildogUmp said:

No, but the mechanic gram only shows U1 going fair. Additionally. 5.5 Positioning for Taking Plays tells us that while the manual doesn't depict actual positions, umpires take plays from the position they deem most advantageous without taking themselves out of position for the next play. I submit that U1 going foul and expecting the Plate to take the BR into 2nd (and possibly 3rd) takes both umpires out of position for the next play.

So a PU, that on a ground ball to F4 clears F2 to the left, busts up the line to the 45 and comes to a stop to watch for pulled foot or swipe tag, cannot bust to 2B to cover a play there. Yes, that's the perfect PU graded 10 out of 10 at the clinic. Does the mechanic gram depict 2 steps or 90 or what. I would think a clinic would cover a lot more as to mechanics. Some have covered pressure. I haven't heard of the inside mechanic but have you seen that at a clinic? 

[DevildogUmp]

9 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

So a PU, that on a ground ball to F4 clears F2 to the left, busts up the line to the 45 and comes to a stop to watch for pulled foot or swipe tag, cannot bust to 2B to cover a play there. Yes, that's the perfect PU graded 10 out of 10 at the clinic. Does the mechanic gram depict 2 steps or 90 or what. I would think a clinic would cover a lot more as to mechanics. Some have covered pressure. I haven't heard of the inside mechanic but have you seen that at a clinic? 

The mechanic gram doesn't give distance. I agree the manual says that the illustrations do not show exact positions and umpires are to position themselves in the best spot for the call. I still stand by the fact that U1 going foul and shifting BR coverage going to 2nd to the PU puts both umpires out of position for the follow-on play. I'm personally still in good enough shape that I can get pretty close the 45' line on balls to the left of the infield, but I don't think I would get that far on a hit that pulls F4 to the foul line. Even if PU made it to the 45' line, whoever came up with this "mechanic" believes that PU can now cover the almost 100 feet to get from the foul line to the 2nd base cutout before the BR and be set to make a call? (The math puts the 45' mark approximately 100.623 ft from 2nd base). If we go with my thought that PU probably is only getting about 20-25 ft up the line before the play, you are now looking at him having to go approximately 110 ft, chasing a BR only going 90 ft.

I think I will stick with the CCA which has the PU responsible for the overthrow and U1 covering the BR. If U1 does end up taking the initial play in foul territory, he is still closer to getting into a position at 2nd base for a play there.

If the inside mechanic is referring to cutting in to the pivot point, no I have not seen that covered as standard at a clinic on a ball that remains in the infield. The only "last ditch"/"oh SH*#" mechanic I've seen is for U1 getting pushed foul by F3 and that is to move up to the bag a step or two in foul territory to stay out of the way of the flip from F3 to F1/F4 covering or F3 in a foot race to the bag. Last ditch because your IP for A should be deep enough that F3 can range to the line in front of you and then you can step around him into fair territory while he is moving to the line. I don't think I've ever had a clinician discuss F4 being the catalyst to push U1 foul.

[jimurrayalterego]

6 minutes ago, DevildogUmp said:

 whoever came up with this "mechanic" 

 

Evans and PBUC to start with but who has instructed you at a clinic to not do this if umps were capable and I would ask any of you if you have had the inside espoused at a clinic. I want to keep up with the latest to train my young umps.

[DevildogUmp]

22 hours ago, jimurrayalterego said:

Evans and PBUC to start with but who has instructed you at a clinic to not do this if umps were capable and I would ask any of you if you have had the inside espoused at a clinic. I want to keep up with the latest to train my young umps.

Noone has instructed not to do this at any clinic I've been apart of. It has never been instructed as a mechanic at clinics I've attended. All the clinics I have attended have been based on the CCA manual and since the CCA manual doesn't include it, that is probably why it wasn't taught. Like I previously stated, U1 going foul has been covered as a last-ditch need, but U1 would still have responsibility of the BR continuing to 2nd base.

Because this is the first I've heard of this mechanic of PU taking the BR, and you said TASO teaches it, I did ask a Texas transplant in my chapter about this mechanic. For what it is worth, he had never heard of it either and according to him it was never covered in his TASO clinics and is not included in his copies of TASO mechanics powerpoints. 

Edited March 11 by DevildogUmp
grammer fix

[jimurrayalterego]

23 minutes ago, DevildogUmp said:

Noone has instructed not to do this at any clinic I've been apart of. It has never been instructed as a mechanic at clinics I've attended. All the clinics I have attended have been based on the CCA manual and since the CCA manual doesn't include it, that is probably why it wasn't taught. Like I previously stated, U1 going foul has been covered as a last-ditch need, but U1 would still have responsibility of the BR continuing to 2nd base.

Because this is the first I've heard of this mechanic of PU taking the BR, and you said TASO teaches it, I did ask a Texas transplant in my chapter about this mechanic. For what it is worth, he had never heard of it either and according to him it was never covered in his TASO clinics and is not included in his copies of TASO mechanics powerpoints. 

So I googled a Texas TASO Power Point and came up with the TASO mechanics manual where apparently the Beaumont Chapter uses PP to educate their members. I don't know where your transplant came from but if from Beaumont he missed this:

"NO RUNNERS ON BASE Hit to the Infield Near First Base U1 Ball Flight Primary Movement Secondary Movement PL T here are occasions when a ground ball is hit near first base and it makes it very difficult for U1 to get into position for the call at first base without interfering with the players attempting to field the ball and make the play. In those cases, it is said that U1 is being “pressured” by the fielders, notably F3 and F4, to move into foul territory. When this happens, U1 must read the “pressure” and immediately move to a position in foul territory to make the call. This should be a position that allows U1 to see the play and avoid being run over by the BR or interfering with any of the fielders. PL must read U1’s movement to foul territory and immediately move to the infield toward second base, as PL will be responsible for any play at second or third in the event of an overthrow at first base"

But who cares what TASO says. It also was in Evans and PBUC. It's more than likely that your transplant took a TASO mechanics test that had such a question on it and got it wrong. But some of our brethren do not care to find out what they got wrong and what they don't know as long as they pass and get games and get paid.

[JSam21]

9 hours ago, jimurrayalterego said:

So I googled a Texas TASO Power Point and came up with the TASO mechanics manual where apparently the Beaumont Chapter uses PP to educate their members. I don't know where your transplant came from but if from Beaumont he missed this:

"NO RUNNERS ON BASE Hit to the Infield Near First Base U1 Ball Flight Primary Movement Secondary Movement PL T here are occasions when a ground ball is hit near first base and it makes it very difficult for U1 to get into position for the call at first base without interfering with the players attempting to field the ball and make the play. In those cases, it is said that U1 is being “pressured” by the fielders, notably F3 and F4, to move into foul territory. When this happens, U1 must read the “pressure” and immediately move to a position in foul territory to make the call. This should be a position that allows U1 to see the play and avoid being run over by the BR or interfering with any of the fielders. PL must read U1’s movement to foul territory and immediately move to the infield toward second base, as PL will be responsible for any play at second or third in the event of an overthrow at first base"

But who cares what TASO says. It also was in Evans and PBUC. It's more than likely that your transplant took a TASO mechanics test that had such a question on it and got it wrong. But some of our brethren do not care to find out what they got wrong and what they don't know as long as they pass and get games and get paid.

You keep using Evans and PBUC... that is professional level... not amateur. I understand that TASO has it in their manual. All I've said is NFHS and CCA do not have it in their manuals. All of the camps and clinics that I have been to teach from the CCA manual.  

[jimurrayalterego]

1 hour ago, JSam21 said:

 All I've said is NFHS and CCA do not have it in their manuals. 

What do they have in their manuals regarding "pressure". I've heard Evans was involved in the latest more better NFHS manual. 

[Velho]

Side note since we're discussing manuals: starting this year LL has formally adopted CCA for 70ft & 90ft fields.

[MadMax]

Guys... after reading everything posted, I need to return us back to the OP, and a particular context-setting phrase present in it (in no way am I placing any burden on @SeeingEyeDog )

On 3/8/2026 at 10:48 PM, SeeingEyeDog said:

I had a partner this weekend who went to pro school a few years ago and he said the way I took that play is the "old way" and the "new way" they are teaching now is...U1 remains in foul territory, gets a good angle and distance...and takes the play from there

Em added. 

We have to consider, this might be a game of Telephone (line), that the partner in question misread, misinterpreted, or misapplied a simple answer to the question, "What do you (one of the Red-jackets) do on a/the play (at 1B) when reading pressure?" That Red-jacket may have given anecdotal advice, or, in the larger group, this may have been attached to the context of 3-man / 4-man. The unfortunate thing about Pro school (at least the read I had of it, when I attended), is that drills are conducted so as to demonstrate concepts, and then to check on ability to accept what they "instruct" you, (quickly) adapt and implement it, and adept and alert enough to adjust (within parameters) if a play "blows up". So even if in a drill, they may be practicing the particular read of pressure (by F4), but there's no way – no way – the Fungo-swinger can put the ball in play to that space for F4 to exhibit pressure, every time; besides that, in a drill, the F4 knows it's coming, so they don't take a frantic, purely-reactive route to the baseball, which is frequently the source of pressure; lastly, in that drill, you (the trainees, collectively) are directed to perform the drill (compliance), with the same situation each time. Thus, there are those in the group that, whether actively or passively, associate each play made during the drill as an example or indicator of Pressure. 

Another component we have to consider, too, is how does a play like this progress, realistically? If it truly is Pressure, with the F4 attempts the play (knocks it down, smothers it, fumbles it), but doesn't throw to 1B... then what? BR arrives at 1B, and then... what? Runs through it, right? Is he going on to 2B? 99.999% likely not. So why the reason to "get out in front of the BR"?? 
No, instead, the only logical, realistic reason for a BR to attempt / proceed on to 2B is an overthrow from F4 towards-and-past 1B. At that extreme angle, the ball is headed back towards the plate (down the 1BL, specifically). Whether the PU or the BU takes the BR towards 2B, both are potentially imperiled; I'd argue that the PU is, in fact, worse off because he's running away from the ball, into the No Man's Land where a throw towards 2B might go. So too, the ball is caroming away from BU, so he's optically or physically chasing it towards potential OOP; this, too, is not optimal. 

Therefore, why are we dogmatically trying to assign responsibilities to umpires in a (freak) play like this, instead of bolstering the umpires to react according to the progression of the play, ideal/textbook diagram be damned? 

[JonnyCat]

1 hour ago, MadMax said:

Therefore, why are we dogmatically trying to assign responsibilities to umpires in a (freak) play like this, instead of bolstering the umpires to react according to the progression of the play, ideal/textbook diagram be damned?

This exactly! Thank you, Max.

When I went to pro school, we did drill and discuss pressure on plays with no one on. Yes, If you did have pressure, then the responsibilities would shift if BU took the play in foul territory.

However, the instructors were adamant that pressure almost never happens, and most people that think they have pressure, do not. They wanted us to do our utmost to take plays in fair territory. Just because F4 is moving towards the foul line does not necessarily constitute pressure. Sadly, I've seen many umpires mistaken in what the believe is a pressure play, when in fact, it was not. The vast majority of the time, you can take plays in fair territory with no one on.

It's not CAN I vacate, but rather should be, MUST I vacate.

[mac266]

The ONLY time I take that play at first from foul territory is if I get squeezed HARD. As you said, everything in 2-man is a compromise. So what happens if the ball is misplayed at first and goes flying off somewhere but in live ball territory? That runner is going for second, and now we're in a foot race with a high school / college kid. That's a race I'm going to lose every time.