Runner who has already scored interferes with an umpire

[Little Ott]

I was asked this a few days ago.  I've since combed the books and can't find an answer --  NFHS, but I'll take an OBR explanation if you have one.

Play at home developing. I position myself to get a good view and make the call. On deck batter or maybe the runner who scored, I don’t remember, steps directly in front of me completely blocking my view at the exact wrong moment. I see nothing to make a call. my partner sees nothing either. 

Can interference be called for blocking the umpire? 

Is there a rule for out or safe in this situation? 

 

What do you say?

[MadMax]

1 hour ago, Little Ott said:

Can interference be called for blocking the umpire?

For this specific, stated, proclaimed reason? Nope, you’re on-yer-own, Chuck, if you’re making that call. There’s no supporting rule – beyond the super-lame “I’m PU / UIC and whatever I decree is final” deification rule in NFHS – that substantiates you/us taking punitive action against a player or participant for “blocking your/our view”. 

If you’re my partner, and you made this call? I’m not going to outright abandon you, but I’m going to excuse myself to retrieve my “poop poncho” from my gear bag so as to weather the sh!t storm soon to follow. 💩 

Seriously, if you’re making this call, for a SR or ODH “blocking your view”, then why aren’t you calling out every Runner who slides or dekes a tag attempt, and whose body is between the glove/ball and your eyes? Hmm?? 

1 hour ago, Little Ott said:

Is there a rule for out or safe in this situation?

Does INT – not “Catcher’s Interference” – ever result in “Safe”??! On any INT (not CI), someone’s going to be Out. 

Then, there’s that… ~ wonderfully wise piece of advice ~ that “local guys” always espouse at association meetings, “When in doubt, call ‘em out!” 

1 hour ago, Little Ott said:

I position myself to get a good view and make the call. On deck batter or maybe the runner who scored, I don’t remember, steps directly in front of me completely blocking my view at the exact wrong moment.

This is why HWUS does not teach plays at the plate in a big-class setting. What is a “good view position” at the plate? Sure, there are conceptual elements involved, but there’s no diagram. 

1 hour ago, Little Ott said:

steps directly in front of me completely blocking my view at the exact wrong moment.

Don’t let it get to that. I played college basketball… you either drive your hip in there, or your forearm on their belt, and you box them out. This is also one of those reasons why Brent Rice – lead red-jacket at HWUS at the time – would yell at us “Read Step!!!”… adjust your position, take in a second view, add it to the process, and sell the (whatever) call. 

[maven]

There is no such thing as interfering with an umpire. So, no, that can't be called.

There is no applicable rule in any code.

This is one of those things in youth ball that newer umpires get surprised by. Kids do dumb stuff. We need to be aware of the ODB/scored runner and shoo him away if he gets too close. Umpires who are on a knee for plays at the plate limit what they can do in this regard (one of dozens of reasons not to be on their knees).

Ordinarily, I don't lay hands on players (at any level), but this situation is an exception to that. 

[beerguy55]

I'm assuming there's grounds for ejection if you judge intent...but you better be damned sure.

Otherwise - don't root your feet in the ground...always be ready to adjust and move.  Baserunners can very easily juke and deke and put themselves between you and the fielder.  And, yes, once in a while SH*# happens.

[ArchAngel72]

So the call there is "safe"   you did not see a tag..

 

then put on your poncho..  Im stealing that one cause that is a good one..

 

[Little Ott]

Thanks Gents.  As always - I'm grateful for your rules knowledge and this community.  Continue to dispense justice as you see fit.

[Mussgrass]

5 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

So the call there is "safe"   you did not see a tag..

 

then put on your poncho..  Im stealing that one cause that is a good one..

 

I would say just the opposite. He's out! The offense did something stupid so you punish their stupidity.

[ArchAngel72]

33 minutes ago, Mussgrass said:

I would say just the opposite. He's out! The offense did something stupid so you punish their stupidity.

Ah but chances are you saw him touch the plate but missed any chance of a tag.  If you did not see it you cannot call it.

 

/shrug

 

plus recall there is no player interference on the umpire

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

@Little Ott, you say you "position yourself to get a good view and make a good call" in your OP...

Can you describe for us what that means for you on a play at the plate? I think I know what happened here but, I want to hear a little more about how you take plays at the plate...

I am not looking to criticize you in any way on this. I am looking to help you. It doesn't matter what level of ball an umpire is working...we have to get calls at the plate. We have to. Especially if you want to move up and work better baseball.

~Dawg

[Velho]

42 minutes ago, Little Ott said:

Thanks Gents.  As always - I'm grateful for your rules knowledge and this community.  Continue to dispense justice as you see fit.

I assume that is tongue in cheek but do want to point out, just in case for you and anyone reading this in the future:  everyone here is worried about helping you for next time. No one is excoriating you about it. The play happened. We've all done it.

Trying to figure out what to do different next time is what matters. Kudos on you for seeking to maximize your learning opportunity.

[MadMax]

4 hours ago, Little Ott said:

I was asked this a few days ago. 

@Velho and @SeeingEyeDog, I think Ott’s situation was posed to him by a fellow umpire, with that unnamed umpire  being the “I/me” in the story. Ott is just the transcriber. 

But Velho, I too looked at that “… as you see fit” with a little bit of 🤨. 

I’ll go with levity and best intent.

[maven]

Agree with Velho. Few of us dump on posters who ask questions in order to improve. Anyone with an ounce of empathy can recognize someone who's in the painful process of learning from their mistakes.

"Dispensing justice" is generally reserved for know-alls, blowhards, and trolls.

[SeeingEyeDog]

7 hours ago, MadMax said:

@Velho and @SeeingEyeDog, I think Ott’s situation was posed to him by a fellow umpire, with that unnamed umpire  being the “I/me” in the story. Ott is just the transcriber. 

But Velho, I too looked at that “… as you see fit” with a little bit of 🤨. 

I’ll go with levity and best intent.

[...powers down The Wedge training machine, tips hat to MadMax.]

~Dawg

[Little Ott]

Wow - I opened a can of worms I had no intention of opening.  My apologies if I was clumsy enough to be mis-understood.

I coached for 10 years at a high level.  My son is in his 14th year in the Major Leagues.  I umpire in NYC, now in my 16th year.  I send a "Rule of the Day" to about 700 umpires mostly in my two associations in NYC but I have people on my email list from 3 foreign countries and about 10 different states.  Whenever I write about a call that involves a lot of judgement, I remind us all that we:

1 - get paid to see, then report.  If we don't see, we can't let people know what we saw.

2 - there will be times where one umpire's judgement will differ from another's.

3 - we need to judge dispassionately and fairly.

For those reasons I often say - Dispense justice as you see fit...   Which is what an arbiter does in any sport and in the law.

I come to this site a lot to find issues that my umpires need to know about and have nothing but respect for your rules knowledge and the time you put in.  Several times in the past, when I could not find an answer to a question asked of me on my own, I've asked it here and have always gotten useful insight which I have passed along citing whichever of you gave me the key to unlocking the problem.

No snark intended, and again, I am sorry if it came across that way.

 

[The Man in Blue]

Varsity softball game, R3 and I am in C.  In softball, that is behind F6 (not directly).  There is a passed ball and R3 takes a few extra steps but does not break for the plate.  I do my usual move in to line up in case there is a play coming back . . . and there is.  R3 is diving back to the bag, I make a read step, F5 receives the ball, and . . . F6 steps in front of me "to go back up the play."  WTH!?

SAFE!

Nobody came out, but my partner in postgame says, "She definitely had a tag on her.  What did you see on that?"  

"The shortstop.  If the coach would have come out, I would have told him that.  You want that play called, coach your player not to run through the umpire's line on the play."

[Aging_Arbiter]

Not to jump the tracks too far, but this brought back a not so fond memory.  MANY years ago, I had a fall ball game where 8 y/o were playing up for LL Minors (next year).  R3, batter didn't move on a passed ball.  I scooped up little Johnny (a la football carry) with my left arm, before Little Johnny became the sandwich makings between a pretty big R3, and an F2 that was wearing his gear. 

 

The only thing the batter did at that point, was interfere with my ability to make a safe call with both arms. 😁

[Velho]

13 hours ago, Little Ott said:

For those reasons I often say - Dispense justice as you see fit...   Which is what an arbiter does in any sport and in the law.

That context of the justice tagline makes sense. Thanks.

I was making a general statement about the self-flagellation mindset some umpires fall into and how this site is a resource (direct and honest, so not always easy to hear, but it's here to help).

Where do I sign up for this is "Rule a Day" email? Daily means I might get the rulebook figured out in a year or two.

[Little Ott]

Send me an email at yoteachyo@gmail.com and I'll add you to my mailing list.  We focus almost entirely on OBR and NFHS but I occasionally will add the NCAA rules if it makes sense.  While there are many college umpires on my list, the vast majority only work the NFHS and OBR codes.

[Little Ott]

By the way... I put the question out on my Rule of the Day and got some excellent advice.  The umpire said - 

"Another important point ... if a player gets between you and a tag play at the plate, you're probably too far away from the tag. Close the distance between you and the catcher. Generally, you're supposed to stay 2-3 feet behind the catcher, which really leaves very little room for a bat boy or other player to squeeze between the two of you and block your view. I did tend to stay too far behind the catcher on plays on the plate in the past, so I have had this happen to me, but I've worked on decreasing the distance the last couple of years and it helps."