Base running

[Guest Ray]

Runners on base with only one out.  Batter hits deep, fielder catches the ball for the second out, but he's lost track of the outs.  He tosses the ball into the stand.  Is the ball still live?  Do the runner advance? If so, how far?

[MadMax]

The stands are Out-of-Play, are they not? 

So, if the ball goes into the stands, whether it be batted, thrown, or carried there in the clutches of a gryphon (or harpie, subject to interpretation), it is… say it with me… Out-of-Play! 

Well, we have this here Rulebook that addresses and covers exactly that. A (Live) ball goes out-of-play, it is then Dead. A thrown ball from an outfielder is a 2-base award, time of throw (ToT). 

[Guest Thanks]

MadMax, Thanks for the answer.  I'm not a big baseball fan but was watching some "bloopers" where this happened.  

Ray

[Velho]

1 minute ago, Guest Thanks said:

I'm not a big baseball fan but was watching some "bloopers" where this happened.

Yeah, fun ones to watch. Where they player takes the ball back from the fan means nothing since the ball is already out of play as Max said. You can't unring that bell. So it ends up just being mean. LOL

[Mudisfun]

Where it gets fun is determining where the runner is placed and if he properly retagged...

R1, ball hit deep and he achieves 2nd base. F9 catches the ball and then thinking it is the 3rd out, tosses the ball to the fans. Umpires award 2 bases from time of throw, which in this case is home for the runner, who you will notice has not tagged up.

Scenario 1: runner trots to 3rd and then home, scoring. The defense can now appeal when the ball is live (or in HS a dead ball appeal is fine) and the runner should be declared out on the appeal for failure to retag properly when they throw the ball to first and appeal the running error.

Scenario 2: runner recognizes he failed to retouch. Runs back to 1st, tags and then is awarded third since his award is now from 1st base.

Scenario #1 is more fun... 

[ArchAngel72]

54 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

Where it gets fun is determining where the runner is placed and if he properly retagged...

R1, ball hit deep and he achieves 2nd base. F9 catches the ball and then thinking it is the 3rd out, tosses the ball to the fans. Umpires award 2 bases from time of throw, which in this case is home for the runner, who you will notice has not tagged up.

Scenario 1: runner trots to 3rd and then home, scoring. The defense can now appeal when the ball is live (or in HS a dead ball appeal is fine) and the runner should be declared out on the appeal for failure to retag properly when they throw the ball to first and appeal the running error.

Scenario 2: runner recognizes he failed to retouch. Runs back to 1st, tags and then is awarded third since his award is now from 1st base.

Scenario #1 is more fun... 

 

Scenario #1 is my LL nightmare cause if I tell a kid. "You Home"  I have just instructed him he goes home.  Then him and the coach will both blame me for sending him home when I KNEW he needed to retag and then its YOU 3rd base.  I get it with say 13 yr olds and older but a 8-10u kid..   EEESH It makes me cringe so hard.

 

 

[Vegas_Ump]

2 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

 

Scenario #1 is my LL nightmare cause if I tell a kid. "You Home"  I have just instructed him he goes home.  Then him and the coach will both blame me for sending him home when I KNEW he needed to retag and then its YOU 3rd base.  I get it with say 13 yr olds and older but a 8-10u kid..   EEESH It makes me cringe so hard.

 

 

Question:  Is the throw out of play considered a "play"  (an INTERVENING play) in the context of any possible subsequent appeal?

Mike

Las Vegas

[noumpere]

17 minutes ago, Vegas_Ump said:

Question:  Is the throw out of play considered a "play"  (an INTERVENING play) in the context of any possible subsequent appeal?

Mike

Las Vegas

No.  It's still unrelaxed action.

[834k3r]

3 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

 

Scenario #1 is my LL nightmare cause if I tell a kid. "You Home"  I have just instructed him he goes home.  Then him and the coach will both blame me for sending him home when I KNEW he needed to retag and then its YOU 3rd base.  I get it with say 13 yr olds and older but a 8-10u kid..   EEESH It makes me cringe so hard.

 

 

Well, if it's any consolation to you your nightmare scenario likelihood is extremely low. In my experience 8-10U LL players and coaches don't pay much attention to base touches. Case in point, 12U Majors game last week, batter hits a long fly ball that ends us being a triple (plus the obligatory error because LL). The batter never touched 1B, and the defense didn't notice.

[The Man in Blue]

4 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

 

Scenario #1 is my LL nightmare cause if I tell a kid. "You Home"  I have just instructed him he goes home.  Then him and the coach will both blame me for sending him home when I KNEW he needed to retag and then its YOU 3rd base.  I get it with say 13 yr olds and older but a 8-10u kid..   EEESH It makes me cringe so hard.

 

 

I am aware of this, but have never thought about the proper mechanic for it.

I’m going with awarding from the “apparent” position … am I wrong?  I can’t tell him to go back and tag up, but I did just tell him to go to home.

Interesting … 

[noumpere]

18 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

 

Scenario #1 is my LL nightmare cause if I tell a kid. "You Home" 

 

 

Tell him "you - two bases."

 

let his coach tell him what he thinks that means.

[Jimurray]

5 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I am aware of this, but have never thought about the proper mechanic for it.

I’m going with awarding from the “apparent” position … am I wrong?  I can’t tell him to go back and tag up, but I did just tell him to go to home.

Interesting … 

The proper mechanic per MLBUM for OBR is to award home. If the offense is smart enough to retouch you revise the award to 3B. If he doesn't retouch the run scores absent an appeal by a smart defense. High School avoids this mechanic by just awarding 3B.

[The Man in Blue]

3 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

The proper mechanic per MLBUM for OBR is to award home. If the offense is smart enough to retouch you revise the award to 3B. If he doesn't retouch the run scores absent an appeal by a smart defense. High School avoids this mechanic by just awarding 3B.

 

I was good until that last part ... [Scooby Doo double take]

[blue23ll]

10 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

 

Scenario #1 is my LL nightmare cause if I tell a kid. "You Home"  I have just instructed him he goes home.  Then him and the coach will both blame me for sending him home when I KNEW he needed to retag and then its YOU 3rd base.  I get it with say 13 yr olds and older but a 8-10u kid..   EEESH It makes me cringe so hard.

 

 

Actually had this happen in a game. Kid ran off the field and all the way home. His Dad brought him back to ask me why I sent him home...

 

[ArchAngel72]

15 hours ago, noumpere said:

Tell him "you - two bases."

 

let his coach tell him what he thinks that means.

The mechanic from what I was told is you point (Left arm) at the Runner and say "YOU XBASE"  or "YOU HOME"   telling them 2 bases would then bring upon the Well 2 bases form where and or when?

 

[ArchAngel72]

20 hours ago, 834k3r said:

Well, if it's any consolation to you your nightmare scenario likelihood is extremely low. In my experience 8-10U LL players and coaches don't pay much attention to base touches. Case in point, 12U Majors game last week, batter hits a long fly ball that ends us being a triple (plus the obligatory error because LL). The batter never touched 1B, and the defense didn't notice.

I had a game earlier in the year and 8-10u  Both teams in one inning had 2 or more players cross home and MISS home.  I waited an inning and then went and reminded both coaches to tell their players to make sure the touch home plate. Told them both what I saw and then the 2nd team asks "can I appeal those"  LOL "NO" 

 

Both coaches immediately spoke to their teams and then watched the players as they came home, even telling one kid go back go back and touch home when he missed it by a mile..

 

[noumpere]

21 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

The mechanic from what I was told is you point (Left arm) at the Runner and say "YOU XBASE"  or "YOU HOME"   telling them 2 bases would then bring upon the Well 2 bases form where and or when?

 

The play in discussion is the exception that proves the rule.

[Velho]

15 hours ago, Jimurray said:

The proper mechanic per MLBUM for OBR is to award home. If the offense is smart enough to retouch you revise the award to 3B. If he doesn't retouch the run scores absent an appeal by a smart defense.

Does limiting it to 3B apply when they go back even if they did tag up (and go back for just in case)? I'm thinking yes but want to put that out there.

[Jimurray]

59 minutes ago, Velho said:

Does limiting it to 3B apply when they go back even if they did tag up (and go back for just in case)? I'm thinking yes but want to put that out there.

The  interp is "Award made from original base after touch: If a runner is forced to return to a base after a catch, he must retouch......."

So I think your runner would get HP since he wasn't forced to return.

[The Man in Blue]

IT'S NOT A FORCE PLAY!!!!

 

Oh ... sorry.  

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

IT'S NOT A FORCE PLAY!!!!

 

Oh ... sorry.  

We now can add OBR to the other 2 codes as having used the term force/forced improperly.

NCAA: " Note: When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in the last half-inning of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases full which forces the batter and all other runners to advance without liability of being put out, the umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has touched home plate and the batter-runner has touched first base"

NFHS: Some caseplay or interp that mentions the batter being forced.

[The Man in Blue]

Hey, now!  This is NFHS … our whole way of doing things exists in “some caseplay or interp” that is written in a notebook tossed in somebody’s trunk rather than the actual rulebook!