Newbie Parter

[834k3r]

Scheduled for a JV double-header with a partner that's exclusively done LL for several years, but has done some juniors (big field) LL games. Local UIC told me last night my partner for the double-header probably won't know the signals, and much to @MadMax's chagrin he only has a navy shirt.

[wolfe_man]

Oh man, I'm sorry for you.   Is it bad to think "please let me just do it solo" instead of having a newbie partner?  I've had a few this year with mixed results.  Some did fairly well, but some I don't think are going to make it long-term.   One guy already has the attitude that he knows it all, not a good attitude to start with as an umpire. 

For some reason, all of the new guys want to stay on the field and shake hands with both teams too... maybe they picked that up in LL?   When the game is over, I'm off the field ASAP and I don't stop until I'm at the gate by the dugouts - and only then long enough for my partner to catch up.  A few times I get to the gate and turn around and have to look for them - sure enough, there they are in the handshake line saying "good game" to all participants.  

It's interesting in seeing how they handle close calls when coaches want to question or argue also.  The HC came out on one guy who missed a call at 2nd base and all the guy would do was keep giving the hammer signal for he's out without saying anything.  The HC walked away disgusted. 

For the record, I was new once. I am still no expert.  I tried then, and still try, to keep a confident tone without appearing as a know-it-all.  I realize there is much I don't know and further realize it is quite possible to miss something.  It takes practice and experience to learn to get angle over distance, too know when you're too close, to know when you didn't get the best look at something, to realize you were out of position, etc. I try to be honest and humble as much as I can, so I am not just throwing off on newbies.  I just prefer they have a similar attitude versus an arrogant one that can't be taught.

[JSam21]

We have all been the newbie. Think back to when you were in their shoes. Treat them like you would have wanted to be treated then. 

[wolfe_man]

1 minute ago, JSam21 said:

We have all been the newbie. Think back to when you were in their shoes. Treat them like you would have wanted to be treated then. 

Wholly agree, but I honestly wish that we could have volunteer assigned trainers to help these guys get started. Some are more suited to coaching new guys along while some have no business coaching new guy until they get it down themselves.   And while others may be very good umpires, they are terrible trainers.  It works out better for all if we can get the guys that want to train with the new guys.  I'd even be okay with them getting a little extra for it.

In the corporate world, a trainer normally is not just randomly assigned, but they choose folks who are good at their job and who have shown interest in teaching others.  It's more efficient and helps with morale also.

[ousafe]

Putting a newbie out there with inadequate training is a great way to kill their interest in continuing. Add in a partner who is unprepared or unwilling to be a mentor, in a consequential game, and you have pretty much guaranteed they won't be back.

And we need more officials!

[SeeingEyeDog]

2 - 3 hours on a baseball field can be an...interesting time with a newbie partner. There's the fear of the unknown and the uncertainty but, like @JSam21 said...everyone umpiring was a newbie. We all have a duty to the new umpires to help bring them along in some capacity. Support them, point out their mistakes and suggest alternatives. Game management is the most challenging part of the job to learn. Stuff we did years ago, we're not doing now...it's literally Verbal Judo. Coaches can smell a new umpire from a mile away and most will look to try them...be a good partner and know when to leave them be and when to step in. That goes double if you're a chief.

Limit your feedback with new umpires to The Three Big Things. I have found if you overwhelm a new guy with feedback, they get discouraged and think they're horrible (and maybe they were...). We want new guys leaving the ballpark knowing they have some things to work on but, they are growing. So, when you finish your game and do your post-game, pick the three most important things...and give those as feedback. If you have an eager beaver and they are pumping you for more...give them more. We're not all instructor level umpires but, once you've worked enough games you know what is and is not good umpiring. If they did things properly or well, point that out too. You don't have to look for the positive or the negative, just summarize the things you saw. "Hey, I liked when you did this..." or "Nice job on that..." or " So you had, XYZ on that play but, what about 123?" or "You did it this way...is there another way or something you might do differently next time?"

And oh by the way...if you're working with a new guy, they have likely been through a classroom and possibly a field clinic more recently than you. Maybe they learned something they can share with you? I always ask everyone, including new guys, "So, what do you have for me?". First it shows that you value them as an umpire and as a human being. Second, again...you never know, they may point out something about a mechanic or a verbalization that you may have forgotten about or needs to be updated because you haven't been to camp.

~Dawg

[wolfe_man]

6 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

2 - 3 hours on a baseball field can be an...interesting time with a newbie partner. There's the fear of the unknown and the uncertainty but, like @JSam21 said...everyone umpiring was a newbie. We all have a duty to the new umpires to help bring them along in some capacity. Support them, point out their mistakes and suggest alternatives. Game management is the most challenging part of the job to learn. Stuff we did years ago, we're not doing now...it's literally Verbal Judo. Coaches can smell a new umpire from a mile away and most will look to try them...be a good partner and know when to leave them be and when to step in. That goes double if you're a chief.

Limit your feedback with new umpires to The Three Big Things. I have found if you overwhelm a new guy with feedback, they get discouraged and think they're horrible (and maybe they were...). We want new guys leaving the ballpark knowing they have some things to work on but, they are growing. So, when you finish your game and do your post-game, pick the three most important things...and give those as feedback. If you have an eager beaver and they are pumping you for more...give them more. We're not all instructor level umpires but, once you've worked enough games you know what is and is not good umpiring. If they did things properly or well, point that out too. You don't have to look for the positive or the negative, just summarize the things you saw. "Hey, I liked when you did this..." or "Nice job on that..." or " So you had, XYZ on that play but, what about 123?" or "You did it this way...is there another way or something you might do differently next time?"

And oh by the way...if you're working with a new guy, they have likely been through a classroom and possibly a field clinic more recently than you. Maybe they learned something they can share with you? I always ask everyone, including new guys, "So, what do you have for me?". First it shows that you value them as an umpire and as a human being. Second, again...you never know, they may point out something about a mechanic or a verbalization that you may have forgotten about or needs to be updated because you haven't been to camp.

~Dawg

Some good points made here.

What do you do with a new guy who gives you this feedback when asked what he had for you?

"For what it's worth, the pitchers through you called too many balls and the hitters thought you were calling too many strikes."

I had this exact feedback from a guy that worked with me this year.  Then, he got in his car and drove off while I was left standing there in awe. (I hadn't even started to change yet - but he was gone)

[ArchAngel72]

6 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

Some good points made here.

What do you do with a new guy who gives you this feedback when asked what he had for you?

"For what it's worth, the pitchers through you called too many balls and the hitters thought you were calling too many strikes."

I had this exact feedback from a guy that worked with me this year.  Then, he got in his car and drove off while I was left standing there in awe. (I hadn't even started to change yet - but he was gone)

Almost sounds like he knows you.

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

12 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

Some good points made here.

What do you do with a new guy who gives you this feedback when asked what he had for you?

"For what it's worth, the pitchers through you called too many balls and the hitters thought you were calling too many strikes."

I had this exact feedback from a guy that worked with me this year.  Then, he got in his car and drove off while I was left standing there in awe. (I hadn't even started to change yet - but he was gone)

Well, for starters...as my wife's Irish grandmother used to say, "I would write down his name...and draw a line through it."

Seriously, if I get that feedback from a newbie umpire? "Yeah, I thought my zone was good today, too..."

~Dawg

[834k3r]

I appreciate this thread. As several of you have pointed out, we've all been there:  the "newbie."

We'll have a good pre- and post-game, and I'll have to wait and see how he does and adjust from there.

[BCBrad]

I hope your assignor follows the principle of putting people into positions to be successful. 

A couple of things to remember:

1) when I moved to higher levels of baseball, I learned and got better by watching what the more experienced umpires were doing. The best teaching you can do is to model how to properly go about your business on the field. If the new guy wants to advance, they will mimic the common practices of their experienced partners. 
2) With a shortage of umpires, we are not going to re-stock our ranks without newbies getting their feet wet and gaining game experience. If the new guy learns one new rotation, one new play position or one new mechanic, that may be more valuable in terms of the big picture. 
 

And who knows, you may end up with a new friend who you look forward to working with in a year or two. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

If I have a night off from the field, @BCBrad...I will call my assigner and ask him where is the best 2-man crew tonight and then go and watch that game. It's amazing to watch 2 guys work who really know what they are doing out there...no question.

~Dawg

[MadMax]

17 hours ago, BCBrad said:

The best teaching you can do is to model how to properly go about your business on the field. If the new guy wants to advance, they will mimic the common practices of their experienced partners.

This completely flies in the face of all the camps, clinics, and Zoom meetings that are conducted in classrooms and auditoriums. Get off your collective asses and on your feet and actually move about in space. 

Then too, this also exposes an affliction within, typically, our longer-serving umpires. The "Do As I Say, Not As I Do" -type. Just because you've done it that way for that long doesn't make it the thing to model and infuse into others. That's not to say that you're doing it wrong, per se. It merely exposes that there are multiple ways of doing "this", and that it recuses and removes you from demanding that your trainees do it that way. 

Sounds defeating, doesn't it? Good, it should! Then either infuse it into your own repertoire and practices, or else shut up, go about your own business, and let someone else teach the "new guys"!! 

17 hours ago, BCBrad said:

If the new guy learns one new rotation, one new play position or one new mechanic, that may be more valuable in terms of the big picture. 
 

And who knows, you may end up with a new friend who you look forward to working with in a year or two. 

Yup. Assigners and "veterans" have got to let go of this attitude of "gotta do your time, pay your dues, start on the bottom doing Little League -level" bulls#!t. Again, just because you've done "10 years for Frank" doesn't exclude you, or privilege you in some way that you don't have to work all levels of game that Frank assigns for, nor does it exclude you from working with a new guy ever so often. 

15 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

It's amazing to watch 2 guys work who really know what they are doing out there...no question.

What's truly amazing is that the more (and more effectively) that 2 guys work together, the less they have to pre-game, the less they have to signal (all the time or superfluously (eg. the mythical "infield fly brush-off" signal) and communicate in an exaggerated way, and the more calm and composed they conduct themselves and the game. 

Many of my colleagues (and folks on here) have heard my explanation of what & why I established the Vultures. Simply said, I abhor pre-games. Absolutely, we should arrive well in advance of the start of the game, and be on field, ready to go in a timely manner. But I built the Vultures around the concept that if I'm called into cover a game, with 15 minutes notice, that I can walk onto the field needing only 2 questions answered – What's the ruleset? and Who's my partner? 

Last night, it was my fellow Vulture and best friend as my BU. We had the Game of the Week in Class 6A (biggest HS in AZ), with two arch-rival schools. It was intense. We had numerous "case book situation" plays, all handled adroitly. At one point, the HC was overheard asking his AC – himself an ex-MLB player and long-time academy head (as in, his name is on the door) – "Did they get that (ruling) right?", to which the AC replied, "Those two are Vultures, they don't miss anything." 

[BCBrad]

On 4/21/2023 at 11:42 AM, MadMax said:

This completely flies in the face of all the camps, clinics, and Zoom meetings that are conducted in classrooms and auditoriums. Get off your collective asses and on your feet and actually move about in space. 

Then too, this also exposes an affliction within, typically, our longer-serving umpires. The "Do As I Say, Not As I Do" -type. Just because you've done it that way for that long doesn't make it the thing to model and infuse into others. That's not to say that you're doing it wrong, per se. It merely exposes that there are multiple ways of doing "this", and that it recuses and removes you from demanding that your trainees do it that way. 

Sounds defeating, doesn't it? Good, it should! Then either infuse it into your own repertoire and practices, or else shut up, go about your own business, and let someone else teach the "new guys"!! 

Yup. Assigners and "veterans" have got to let go of this attitude of "gotta do your time, pay your dues, start on the bottom doing Little League -level" bulls#!t. Again, just because you've done "10 years for Frank" doesn't exclude you, or privilege you in some way that you don't have to work all levels of game that Frank assigns for, nor does it exclude you from working with a new guy ever so often. 

What's truly amazing is that the more (and more effectively) that 2 guys work together, the less they have to pre-game, the less they have to signal (all the time or superfluously (eg. the mythical "infield fly brush-off" signal) and communicate in an exaggerated way, and the more calm and composed they conduct themselves and the game. 

Many of my colleagues (and folks on here) have heard my explanation of what & why I established the Vultures. Simply said, I abhor pre-games. Absolutely, we should arrive well in advance of the start of the game, and be on field, ready to go in a timely manner. But I built the Vultures around the concept that if I'm called into cover a game, with 15 minutes notice, that I can walk onto the field needing only 2 questions answered – What's the ruleset? and Who's my partner? 

Last night, it was my fellow Vulture and best friend as my BU. We had the Game of the Week in Class 6A (biggest HS in AZ), with two arch-rival schools. It was intense. We had numerous "case book situation" plays, all handled adroitly. At one point, the HC was overheard asking his AC – himself an ex-MLB player and long-time academy head (as in, his name is on the door) – "Did they get that (ruling) right?", to which the AC replied, "Those two are Vultures, they don't miss anything." 

Hey @MadMax, 

I’m not disagreeing with you. I guess I should have capitalized PROPERLY. 

In Canada, our national program sets the standards for umpires - how to do it properly. These standards come from best practices from many sources on positioning, mechanics and game management. It is these national standards that all umpires are expected to follow and I believe all experienced umpires need to model to up and coming umpires. So when I say MODEL, I don’t mean what you learned in a clinic in 1996, but MODEL the standard all umpires are to follow today. That is why, no matter your experience, you should continuously be going to clinics and camps to keep learning and developing yourself. I truly believe the day you think you know everything and don’t need to keep on learning is the day you need to stop officiating. 

[Jimurray]

On 4/21/2023 at 1:42 PM, MadMax said:

 

Last night, it was my fellow Vulture and best friend as my BU. We had the Game of the Week in Class 6A (biggest HS in AZ), with two arch-rival schools. It was intense. We had numerous "case book situation" plays, all handled adroitly. At one point, the HC was overheard asking his AC – himself an ex-MLB player and long-time academy head (as in, his name is on the door) – "Did they get that (ruling) right?", to which the AC replied, "Those two are Vultures, they don't miss anything." 

Just curious, around here most 6A games are well played and without rules issues, other than a rare occasional dispute about BI or FPSR. I can't think of anything casebook related that would happen in a 6A game. What did these teams do amiss?

 

[Velho]

13 hours ago, BCBrad said:

I truly believe the day you think you know everything and don’t need to keep on learning is the day you need to stop officiating. 

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts"

[The Man in Blue]

14 hours ago, BCBrad said:

Hey @MadMax, 

I’m not disagreeing with you. I guess I should have capitalized PROPERLY. 

In Canada, our national program sets the standards for umpires - how to do it properly. These standards come from best practices from many sources on positioning, mechanics and game management. It is these national standards that all umpires are expected to follow and I believe all experienced umpires need to model to up and coming umpires. So when I say MODEL, I don’t mean what you learned in a clinic in 1996, but MODEL the standard all umpires are to follow today. That is why, no matter your experience, you should continuously be going to clinics and camps to keep learning and developing yourself. I truly believe the day you think you know everything and don’t need to keep on learning is the day you need to stop officiating. 

 

I'm curious, are you talking about just in one "affiliated brand" of baseball (e.g., NFHS) or across all the codes?

The problem here, IMO, is that every code wants to be its own brand.  That means they have to go out and do stupid stuff that distinguishes them from the competition.  We want you to wear red shirts (no blue allowed).  We want to have a DH, a CR, three EPs, and a DP.  We want to allow a pitcher to perform backflips as part of their windup ... and on and on with stupid stuff umpires have to try to decipher and contend with.

Agree with everything you said, though!

[SeeingEyeDog]

6 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

I'm curious, are you talking about just in one "affiliated brand" of baseball (e.g., NFHS) or across all the codes?

The problem here, IMO, is that every code wants to be its own brand.  That means they have to go out and do stupid stuff that distinguishes them from the competition.  We want you to wear red shirts (no blue allowed).  We want to have a DH, a CR, three EPs, and a DP.  We want to allow a pitcher to perform backflips as part of their windup ... and on and on with stupid stuff umpires have to try to decipher and contend with.

Agree with everything you said, though!

...and don't forget, the 3-1 move is not a balk and balks are an immediate dead ball. But hey, let 'em have the jewelry after 103 years!

~Dawg 

[The Man in Blue]

On 4/20/2023 at 11:40 AM, wolfe_man said:

Wholly agree, but I honestly wish that we could have volunteer assigned trainers to help these guys get started. Some are more suited to coaching new guys along while some have no business coaching new guy until they get it down themselves.   And while others may be very good umpires, they are terrible trainers.  It works out better for all if we can get the guys that want to train with the new guys.  I'd even be okay with them getting a little extra for it.

In the corporate world, a trainer normally is not just randomly assigned, but they choose folks who are good at their job and who have shown interest in teaching others.  It's more efficient and helps with morale also.

 

The catch-22 here is (broad generalization) that we spend a significant amount complaining about pay ... and there is no common way for a trainer to get paid to do what we need.  Unfortunately, umpires only get paid for working games.  If I'm working games, I can't go watch games.  I can work a game with a guy, but then I am busy working the game and tossing him feedback.  Newbies need a bit more than that.

I can say, "On a night off, I could go watch."  When do you get a night off?  When do you get a night off that you are willing to go back to the ballpark?  The only nights off I have during school ball are nights when I turned down a contract and 3 more requests for a replacement or a make-up game that just got scheduled.  If I am doing that, it is because I have something else I need to take care of or just need the break (mentally or physically).

It isn't fair, IMO, to expect new guys to pay part (or all) of their game check as dues for a trainer -- that's just another roadblock to getting them in the game.

Any thoughts on how to make a viable model? 

[The Man in Blue]

11 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

...and don't forget, the 3-1 move is not a balk and balks are an immediate dead ball. But hey, let 'em have the jewelry after 103 years!

~Dawg 

Hey, the players PROVED they could handle the jewelry!  They earned that! 🙄

[MadMax]

3 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

It isn't fair, IMO, to expect new guys to pay part (or all) of their game check as dues for a trainer -- that's just another roadblock to getting them in the game.

Any thoughts on how to make a viable model? 

BING! 🛎️ You just flipped on the kitchen lights upon the camp & clinic “system”. 

💵 4 🪳🪳🪳. 

Admittedly, it is quite a compromising act – 

[834k3r]

So back on the OT, the game was fine. He borrowed a black shirt from one of the other umpires in the association (no navy, @MadMax) and I took first plate. First game was pretty uneventful aside from the VT coach getting on him about slowing his timing down (yes, he was that quick on some of his calls--the closer the play, the faster his call). We discussed that at length post-game as we changed. Behind the plate, he was fine. His zone was a little low in the first, but brought it up from the 2nd inning on.

Overall, a solidly satisfactory day. He'll get better (not that I'm perfect--far from it) and I enjoyed working with him.