Balk?

[johnnyg08]

What do you think @Umpire in Chief 🙂

 

 

[Jimurray]

30 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

What do you think @Umpire in Chief 🙂

 

 

Lefties get away with murder. But the 1BC and R1 should have seen the left shoulder go back which is a tell for a lefty pickoff.

[JonnyCat]

I think I have a balk on that one, at least for the levels I do. Looks like his leg is moving forward. But then, I don't do college.

[maven]

If the free foot lands closer to HP than to 1B, then it's a balk.

The video angle is indeterminate, so there's no way to know from this video alone whether F1 balked.

[Thunderheads]

4 hours ago, maven said:

If the free foot lands closer to HP than to 1B, then it's a balk.

The video angle is indeterminate, so there's no way to know from this video alone whether F1 balked.

While I agree with the above, ........ based on what you can see in the video, I had balk at real speed, then went frame by frame and of course had balk also.  (Again, BASED ON WHAT I CAN SEE here)

[JHumbert15]

I agree you can't totally tell, but I think it's likely that he's not with in the 45 degree mark. Also, his weight shift seems really "biased" towards home, which commits him to the plate.

Even if he is within 45, it looks to me like he is going home then just decides to step on the "45 line" if he even made it there. I think you can balk this for the weight shift if he is in fact within the 45, or the 45 in itself.

 

Jake

[834k3r]

I have a balk, based on F1 not stepping "directly toward (the) base when throwing...in an attempt to put out." NFHS 6-2-4(b)

[Jimurray]

33 minutes ago, JHumbert15 said:

I agree you can't totally tell, but I think it's likely that he's not with in the 45 degree mark. Also, his weight shift seems really "biased" towards home, which commits him to the plate.

Even if he is within 45, it looks to me like he is going home then just decides to step on the "45 line" if he even made it there. I think you can balk this for the weight shift if he is in fact within the 45, or the 45 in itself.

 

Jake

If he was committed to the plate I don’t think he could have pulled the left shoulder back to throw to 1B, the tell for a lefty pick to 1B. 

[jms1425]

Would anyone here call it as U1? That is, call a balk for F1 stepping towards the plate / beyond the 45 degree mark and throwing to 1st?

I had a similar play a couple years ago as U1. I almost called it, wanted to call it, still think I should have called it, but did not. I asked a few senior guys about that, and the consensus seems to be to let the PU call that violation. It really seems like U1 is in a good position to do so, but that was the feedback I got. Does anyone here have a different opinion?

[JHumbert15]

12 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

If he was committed to the plate I don’t think he could have pulled the left shoulder back to throw to 1B, the tell for a lefty pick to 1B. 

I disagree, his shoulder turning one way and his weight going another aren't mutually exclusive

[kylehutson]

19 minutes ago, jms1425 said:

Would anyone here call it as U1? That is, call a balk for F1 stepping towards the plate / beyond the 45 degree mark and throwing to 1st?

If I'm U1 there, I'm calling it.

[JHumbert15]

17 minutes ago, jms1425 said:

Would anyone here call it as U1? That is, call a balk for F1 stepping towards the plate / beyond the 45 degree mark and throwing to 1st?

I had a similar play a couple years ago as U1. I almost called it, wanted to call it, still think I should have called it, but did not. I asked a few senior guys about that, and the consensus seems to be to let the PU call that violation. It really seems like U1 is in a good position to do so, but that was the feedback I got. Does anyone here have a different opinion?

It depends. In 3 or 4 man it should be U1's primary call when he's in A, he has the best view no doubt. In 2, it's kind of a guessing game, but if you call it, you better be sure of it.

[834k3r]

50 minutes ago, jms1425 said:

Would anyone here call it as U1? That is, call a balk for F1 stepping towards the plate / beyond the 45 degree mark and throwing to 1st?

I had a similar play a couple years ago as U1. I almost called it, wanted to call it, still think I should have called it, but did not. I asked a few senior guys about that, and the consensus seems to be to let the PU call that violation. It really seems like U1 is in a good position to do so, but that was the feedback I got. Does anyone here have a different opinion?

Definitely worth pre-gaming.

[Umpire in Chief]

@johnnyg08 Very interesting... 

I watched that game Tuesday and I remember that play, but I don't think that angle showed on ESPN+.  Seeing it live I didn't give it a second thought. And they replayed it half a dozen times.  Plus the idiot commentators didn't say anything either. 

Seeing it from the ECU dugout angle it looks a lot closer

[ilyazhito]

This is a balk. The pitcher started a motion towards home plate, threw towards first, and did not step to first.

[Jimurray]

12 minutes ago, ilyazhito said:

This is a balk. The pitcher started a motion towards home plate, threw towards first, and did not step to first.

The step does not have to be to first. It has to be more toward 1B than HP. 

[Umpire in Chief]

Watched again on ESPN+ the behind second view shows he's absolutely gaining ground to 1st. Whether he's gaining more towards home or 1st. I don't know. They also show a higher level 1st base view. Which is not conclusive. I'll try to record & post the video later tonight and be prepared for U-E's 10,000,000th DCMA notice. Looks just like 90% of Andy Pettit's moves.  

[kylehutson]

2 hours ago, Umpire in Chief said:

be prepared for U-E's 10,000,000th DCMA notice

Do you get a prize for that?

[Umpire in Chief]

18 hours ago, kylehutson said:

Do you get a prize for that?

Probably little visit to the pokey. 

But alas. ESPN makes it difficult to steal their content, and I wasn't going to try too hard.

[Umpire in Chief]

Long story short, could it have been called? Yes

Even as a fan-boy, would I have been upset if it was called? Probably not

Might he have gotten away with one? Probably

This I think we're just going to have to say was the judgement of the 4 guys on the field.

We've got the Dookies today at 4:00.  We have a really tough non-con schedule. 

[johnnyg08]

1 minute ago, Umpire in Chief said:

Even as a fan-boy, would I have been upset if it was called? Probably not

I tagged you for a reason. 🙂

[UMPIREMIKE410]

I call a balk, thats not going toward the base hes going home then moves leg towards first base at last moment, deception. 

[Thunderheads]

5 minutes ago, UMPIREMIKE410 said:

I call a balk, thats not going toward the base hes going home then moves leg towards first base at last moment, deception. 

'Deception' shouldn't be used as criteria in 'balk logic'  

[jms1425]

Here's a couple screen grabs. Still hard to tell about the 45 degree line....

Would "baseball" be willing to accept a rule or interpretation change from "45 degrees" to "within the frame of his body". That is, to "step directly to the base" means his free foot could not go closer to the plate than his front shoulder.

Just a thought that crossed my mind as a way to better define this move, and to take away some of the advantage lefties have over righties for pickoffs.

[johnnyg08]

In my mind, if they're going to put a number (45) in the rule book then they should put a line on the mound. 

On or inside. you're good.