When you know you kicked a call, what do you tell the coach?

[pl8ump1012]

I sometimes wake up from bad dreams (ok, not really) remembering a call I more than likely kicked last season. 

R1, I'm in B. B2 bunts up the first base line. I anticipate that F3's throw is going to go to first, where either F1 or F4 is covering, but instead, F3 throws to F6 at 2nd base. His throw is coming right for me, I have to duck to get out of the way, and in the process, I'm slow to get turned around and I don't get a good look at the possible force on R1 at second. Based on all the info I have (sound, what I see after the throw, etc.), I make a weak judgment call that R1 was probably safe, but I have very little confidence that I'm right.

HC comes out to ask what I saw. He's clearly upset, but not crossing any lines by any means.

In this type of situation, do you hold your ground and just say "that's what I saw" or something along those lines, or do you own up to the fact that you were (likely) out of position, you missed it, and did the best you could with the information you had, and there's a decent chance you got it wrong. If it's the latter, do you include any type of mea culpa? (I don't mean like a pleading apology, but maybe something along the lines of, "I try to be better than that, won't happen again" type of thing?

Thanks!

[JonnyCat]

54 minutes ago, pl8ump1012 said:

In this type of situation, do you hold your ground and just say "that's what I saw" or something along those lines, or do you own up to the fact that you were (likely) out of position, you missed it, and did the best you could with the information you had, and there's a decent chance you got it wrong. If it's the latter, do you include any type of mea culpa? (I don't mean like a pleading apology, but maybe something along the lines of, "I try to be better than that, won't happen again" type of thing?

If we lived in a more civilized world where coaches weren't usually such ass clowns, it would be perfectly acceptable to apologize for being out of position or reading the play wrong. Then you could go to your partner and ask him if he saw anything different. And of course both coaches would respectfully accept the decision, because after all, coaches always want us to get the call right above anything else. Isn't that what they always say?

However, this is not always the case. A few options are available, IMO. Depending on the situation, you could handle it in a number of ways. You're probably going to hear a number of opinions on how to handle this situation.

Conventional wisdom has us owning the call on a straight judgement call. I've got no issue with that, we all have to do it at some time or another. Generally speaking, you just can't go to your partner on straight judgement. This is what I teach umpires in our area, that 99% of the time, you own your straight judgement calls. Pulled foot/swipe tag/dropped ball not withstanding, we generally don't go to our partner just because the coach saw it differently than we did.

But it also depends on the situation, too. You didn't say what level or magnitude of the game. If it's, for instance, a regular season LL game with no implications, and it's your league that you often work in and know the coaches. You probably could apologize for being out of position, and check with your partner to see if he has anything different. After-all, if you had to duck down and didn't see the play, maybe your partner could help. If it's travel-ball or HS, you probably just have to own that call.

If the game is civil, and your call didn't have any effect on the outcome whatsoever, (a blowout one way or the other), then sometime later during the game or after if you happen to have a conversation with the coach (don't seek him out), sometimes a discreet apology is applicable. No different that apologizing later on to a catcher after you missed a pitch. It happens, and if I have a good rapport with a catcher, sometimes I'll say, "I might have missed that pitch." This is all assuming that everyone is civil and it is a low key game.

Most of the time though, you're going to have to eat that call. You're probably going to have to give the coach a little more leeway and listen to him chew on you a little bit. As long as he doesn't cross the line, let him have his say, and then get back to the game. I would not tell him in this situation that I was out of position and probably got it wrong. That's asking for trouble and adding fuel to the fire. If you tell him you probably missed it, then his expectation is that you need to check with your partner. He's going to ask that, and wonder why you're not doing that, especially after you apologized and admitted you probably got it wrong. If you don't or can't go to your partner, then I wouldn't apologize, I'd just own the call.

[Thunderheads]

@JonnyCat has some great insight here.   For me, ... If the situation allows it, and the rapport is there with the coach in question, yes ... you can be honest and say "I missed it".  It may require getting help, but by doing so, it can't hurt and shows you're willing to attempt to get it right.  Most of the time you'll have to eat it, but SOMETIMES,.... SOMETIMES you can admit it was a miss.

Just last season I had a coach that I have a great rapport with approach me between innings re: a call that just happened ...he said "Jeff, what happened there at second base?"  (had no effect on the game or inning)   I said, ... "Oh, yeah, that one? Mike, I kicked the SH*# out of it!"  He looked at me square in the eye and said "thank you very much", and laughed his ass off, then walked away

TO RE-ITERATE, ...sometimes its ok, most of the time, live w/ it and eat it

[ArchAngel72]

"Wow Hold up coach .. Are you asking me to get help?"    "YES!"

"Well coach I saw what I saw and made my call but in THIS instance I will check with my partner"

"Partner, buddy pal, I stumbled and my vision was not the greatest, what did you see?"

And go from there...

I'm human, I'll make mistakes and if I clearly stumbled or dodged, ducked, dived, dipped, or dodged, yeah I know I may have missed it so does the coach, and so does the dozen or so LL family members.  So imho I will suck up my ego and do my best to get the call correct.

 

Of course this would happen only during tourney play and or the special occasion that I am with my mentor ( we work together when we can for training and practice for ourselves ) or working with a kid I am training, watching, critiquing, etc.

 

[wolfe_man]

All good advice here so far, so can't add anything new.

My two cents... for me, I really like being honest with all people.  I was raised to tell the truth, even when it hurts. This really makes it hard on me, because I have learned that all are NOT honest and do NOT appreciate my honesty either.

There are good coaches, but there are just as many jerks who expect you to be perfect on the first pitch and only get better from there.   They cannot accept the fact that you're human and therefore may stumble or be out of position by accident.  You cannot normally tell these types of coaches that you kicked it or you'll get questioned the rest of the game, so just state what you saw/heard and leave it.  I would not elaborate too much and I would not apologize to the coach that's being a jerk and just wants someone to chew on or blame for his team's struggles.  Briefly state the simple facts about what you heard and saw.  Let him make a comment or ask a question, answer as honestly as you can without getting into too much and then move on - time to play ball.

With one of the good coaches, then I think you can be more open and admit that you may have missed it as you thought they were going to make the play at first.  I still wouldn't offer to check with my partner unprompted though. The coach will ask for that if he wants you to do that. Of course,  I would be open to getting help in this scenario.   I'd offer caution here too though. Just because a coach is friendly now, doesn't mean he won't be a jerk an inning later so don't give him any ammunition to shoot at you!

As much as it hurts, I have learned that the less said to coaches, the better off you'll be.   I'm polite and to-the-point with them all now.  I'll talk about the weather and how happy I am to be on the field in the first inning, but then we don't say much after that beyond what's needed for lineup changes.  I've learned the hard way that they are NOT my friends and many will be more than happy to use something I said, in innocence a few innings earlier, against me if it gives them an advantage. 

Lesson learned... coaches are NOT your friends.  While they are not my enemy, they are most certainly not my friend either.  I have learned to button it up more when I am on the field, which is completely against my natural outgoing manner.  Once I learned this, I have had less trouble with coaches.

The nightmares/bad dreams haunt me sometimes too, but figure out how to prevent it from ever happening again and you'll sleep better.   The goal is to keep getting better and try to avoid the same mistake over and over.  The very fact that it's eating at you tells me you desire to do a good job.  Hang in there and make the next call be perfect!

 

[834k3r]

5 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

As much as it hurts, I have learned that the less said to coaches, the better off you'll be.   I'm polite and to-the-point with them all now.  I'll talk about the weather and how happy I am to be on the field in the first inning, but then we don't say much after that beyond what's needed for lineup changes.  I've learned the hard way that they are NOT my friends and many will be more than happy to use something I said, in innocence a few innings earlier, against me if it gives them an advantage.

This was a hard lesson for me to learn as well. Now I let them chirp until it reaches the 3 Ps level just like all the umpires sitting in the stands behind the backstop.

[maven]

Unfortunately, there is no algorithm, and even if there were, there are too many variables. Most have already been mentioned. None of this helps newer umpires (and newness is one of the myriad variables).

Even after 10 years, if I didn't know a varsity coach, most of the time I'd just own the call, right or wrong. But sometimes, given the heat of the game, I might risk an admission. This is also unhelpful.

The best overall advice I can give is: put yourself in a situation where you don't have to make this decision. That is, get it right (or at least, right enough).

[The Man in Blue]

While I like a lot of the advice given, I will add one perspective that I haven't seen anybody mention ...

@pl8ump1012said the coach came out an asked what he saw.  I'm not trying to be a smartarse, and the way you actually approach this does depend on your rapport, but ...

"That's not how this works coach.  If you have a case to make, I'm happy to hear it and we can go from there."  If the coach doesn't start with his case, if he is just going straight to 'what did you see,' it means he doesn't have a case and is fishing.

As for most other situations, I like to use the line, "I can understand what it may have looked like from your angle, but from my angle I had ..."  I like this because you aren't saying, "Coach, you wrong and I am right."  You are acknowledging the coach's perspective but you aren't showing uncertainty.  If you need some levity and do have a good rapport with the coach, you can always add, "... and that is why we don't call the game from over by your bench."

Never be afraid to admit the obvious.  If you were knocked down or out of position and it was obvious, don't try to defend a tenuous position.  It happens, so be professional about it.  If the coach had come out with, "I think [insert here] and you might have missed that because you were knocked out of position," then I would gladly let him know what I did see and would agree to go talk to my partner.  My issue in the OP is the coach just coming out with a worm and a pole, not a position.

[SeeingEyeDog]

@pl8ump1012, we have all been there, brother. You are not alone. You are never alone. I talk to one of my mentors on a nearly weekly basis to review anything unusual that may have happened to me out there. One common theme I have come across is...You could combine the experiences of every umpire that ever worked a game at every level and you are still going to encounter game situations, scenarios and or rulings that nobody has ever experienced. That is both the beauty and challenge of the game for all umpires. You don't know how to respond or react to some things...until you experience them personally. That's how we learn.

No doubt the next time you have R1, you're in B and a bunt is laid down...you will instinctively recall seeing this previously and handle it better than you did the first time because if the throw goes to 2B, you will be EXPECTING it. The most important mechanical advice I can give you is let the throw take you to the play. Don't ever assume you know where a play is going. Let the throw "show" you the play. I would take 2 steps towards third as soon as that bunt is down the 1B line and then pivot and open up so you have your back to 3B and you have an angle on 2B and 1B. You now have throwing lanes open from the bunt to both bases and once you are certain of the throw, close on the base, lock in and get a good look at it.

As for owning the call, admitting anything to the coach, etc...that's situational, level specific and perhaps coach specific. As @The Man in Blue said, the coach SAW you out of position that's why he's out there with worm and a pole. Ask yourself...what is to be gained by admitting you missed something or MAY have missed something? Even on a textbook 6-4-3 turn, U1 with perfect positioning can still miss FPSR because the contact between R1 and F4 might happen AFTER the turn when U1 has turned away to now view the play by F3. PU should be coming up from point of plate to the 3B side of the mound to get a view as best he can on 2B specifically for anything unusual after the turn. Pre-game that if you're working with an unfamiliar partner! And remember...if the throw goes into 2B and R1 is safe, there may be additional action. The fielder might try to make the turn to 1B (unlikely on a bunt play). You may have a bounce back after the play at 1B as the runner at 2B foolishly breaks for 3B. You just never know...make the call and then take a moment and think about extra action and the next play. Where do you need to be?

 My association teaches MOST calls are the crew's calls. Play at the plate? No coach...I am not going to my partner in B who had responsibilities at 2B some 80 feet away. But yeah, if a coach is respectful and we're having a civil conversation about what was called...yeah, I'll go to a partner. We all should. In many cases, I know we're not reversing it but, there is something to be said for having a willingness to check with the rest of the crew and do everything we can for the game to get the call correct. Coach is salty? I am less inclined to indulge him.

~Dawg

[BigBlue4u]

23 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

As for most other situations, I like to use the line, "I can understand what it may have looked like from your angle, but from my angle I had ..."

Ask the coach what he saw.  Then you can tell him, 'That's not what happened." Here's another good response after a coach comes out to argue. If you know you blew it, give him plenty of time.  Then you can say, "Coach I did the best I could with it."

[The Man in Blue]

I wouldn't suggest asking that.  IMO, that is sending a message that you are unsure about what you saw.  I definitely wouldn't follow it up with "That's not what happened."  You may as well just call him dumb and tell him to sit his fat arse down, because you are inviting conflict.  Just my opinion.

If the rapport is good, I have no issue with that last bit though!  😁

[noumpere]

"If this were MLB, I'd let you ask for a replay review"