Honig's K1 Protection?

[Scissors]

Was reading some threads from several years ago about the K1, and it seems the consensus was that it was a good low level protector. Is that still the consensus? I thought an improved version was released a few years ago which claimed to be more protective. Also seeing some ProNine protectors which look exactly the same, wondering if anyone has experience with those. Thanks.

[wolfe_man]

They're fine for softball and low-level baseball (14U), but I'd not wear it in a JV or Varsity game. Seen lots of guys really hurting after a foul ball straight back wearing those semi-soft-shell protectors (Pro Nine, Champro).  FWIW, I do think the K1 has plates in it though, so it may be a bit safer.

I strongly encourage ones to buy a hard-shell CP and wear it for all levels of ball.  It's better to be safe and be hot, than to try to go lightweight for whatever reason and end up getting hurt.  I wear either my Gold or F3 V3 exclusively no matter what level I'm calling, but I hardly call anything below JV anymore as I have lost patience for parents/parent-coaches and sloppy baseball as I age.

[boyinr]

I had one years ago.  I think it was the version 1.  It was fine until it wasn't and I learned that there was something better.  Took a shot in a JV game that stuck with me a while (still remember that one).  Upgraded to a Platinum.  Using a soft shell for a lower level game is always  conundrum.  The speed of the balls are lower but, you are more likely to get hit do to the ability and size of the players.  I don't change my set up.        

[Scissors]

Thanks, I was considering one for wreck ball but I'll stick with my Douglas. Agree that I've seen too many umpires at higher levels wearing soft shells.

[BlueRanger]

4 hours ago, Scissors said:

Thanks, I was considering one for wreck ball but I'll stick with my Douglas. Agree that I've seen too many umpires at higher levels wearing soft shells.

There was somebody on here a year or two ago saying that they had a partner wearing a Pro-Nine with the shoulder caps cut off in a NAIA/D3 baseball game. Absolute lunacy. Must have banger health insurance lol.

[Scissors]

13 minutes ago, BlueRanger said:

There was somebody on here a year or two ago saying that they had a partner wearing a Pro-Nine with the shoulder caps cut off in a NAIA/D3 baseball game. Absolute lunacy. Must have banger health insurance lol.

I remember seeing that. Just get an F3 lol

[BT_Blue]

I had one. Wore it for Pony level and Freshman baseball. Kept getting hit and thinking "darn that hurt." And sold it for a WV Gold

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eagle_12]

Likes others have said it (first version) was good, until it wasn’t, when I realized I wanted the plating of the hard shells.  I wore the K1 in college, mens league, and high school games, and didn’t give it a second thought.  Took a couple good hits, felt them, but nothing severe, maybe some slight bruising/red marks.   I know I washed it a couple times and the padding shifted so didn’t feel too good about it. 

[MadMax]

You gotta remember / realize, Dick Honig was a longtime football (primary; and other sports) official, and his storefront & staff acted as the outfitter of Major League Umpires for decades. While they didn’t produce the gear, they would do all the tailoring, alterations, and customizations. As such, Honig’s knew what factors to incorporate into gear and accessories for baseball umpires at a wide range of levels. 

For example, Honig’s K4 mask is one of the best masks for novice umpires; it is hollow steel, so very strong and resilient, but not too heavy. The extended crown guard and oversized ear guards protect umpires who may be prone to turning or tilting their heads while the pitch arrives, and the squared chin guard easily allows the umpire to attach a dangling throat guard properly. 

On the CP, it does have blast plates internally, backed by foam. In this, it’s most similar to the Force3 UnEqual. By jacketing the entire unit in nylon, it reduces bruises and tears on the shirts / plate coat if/when an impact occurs. The main thing working against the K1 is the absence of fastener hardware, ie. buckles, hooks, etc. This means less things to break, but the challenge becomes the straps eventually lose their elasticity, the Velcro loses its grab, and the whole snug fit is lost. 

So I modify and repair K1’s, bending and contouring the plates and then replacing the harness with a flex-style harness and actual side-release buckles.

Now, would I go to all this effort if the CP was sub-par or a piece of crap? 💩 Nope! I’d just tell the umpire to get a new one! But this K1 is a serviceable CP, and once modified, is one that would have no objections or concerns on wearing for the MiLB Training, college, or adult league games I do with my Schutt MaXV. 

Would I give up my MaXV for a K1? No. But if I had to choose between a K1 and those weird softie CPs, I’d choose a K1. Frankly, I’d take a K1 over a Wilson Charcoal CP or one of those ancient Douglas / Wilson Tri-panel West Vests. 

[dumbdumb]

35 minutes ago, MadMax said:

You gotta remember / realize, Dick Honig was a longtime football (primary; and other sports) official, and his storefront & staff acted as the outfitter of Major League Umpires for decades. While they didn’t produce the gear, they would do all the tailoring, alterations, and customizations. As such, Honig’s knew what factors to incorporate into gear and accessories for baseball umpires at a wide range of levels. 

For example, Honig’s K4 mask is one of the best masks for novice umpires; it is hollow steel, so very strong and resilient, but not too heavy. The extended crown guard and oversized ear guards protect umpires who may be prone to turning or tilting their heads while the pitch arrives, and the squared chin guard easily allows the umpire to attach a dangling throat guard properly. 

On the CP, it does have blast plates internally, backed by foam. In this, it’s most similar to the Force3 UnEqual. By jacketing the entire unit in nylon, it reduces bruises and tears on the shirts / plate coat if/when an impact occurs. The main thing working against the K1 is the absence of fastener hardware, ie. buckles, hooks, etc. This means less things to break, but the challenge becomes the straps eventually lose their elasticity, the Velcro loses its grab, and the whole snug fit is lost. 

So I modify and repair K1’s, bending and contouring the plates and then replacing the harness with a flex-style harness and actual side-release buckles.

Now, would I go to all this effort if the CP was sub-par or a piece of crap? 💩 Nope! I’d just tell the umpire to get a new one! But this K1 is a serviceable CP, and once modified, is one that would have no objections or concerns on wearing for the MiLB Training, college, or adult league games I do with my Schutt MaXV. 

Would I give up my MaXV for a K1? No. But if I had to choose between a K1 and those weird softie CPs, I’d choose a K1. Frankly, I’d take a K1 over a Wilson Charcoal CP or one of those ancient Douglas / Wilson Tri-panel West Vests. 

Figure as a former catcher you would just wear what they wear since they get the best of everything and the quality. That XV you mention looks like a cradle to grave (LLto MLB) piece just like a carlucci. You don't have to have the plates on the chest protector. You did not have that for years as a catcher and did just fine.

https://www.catchershome.com/mlb-catchers-gear/

 

[kylejt]

There's no good, reasonable reason not wear pro gear. None.

Do I need to repeat my story about my heart rhythm being messed up in a 10 year old game while wearing less than pro gear? 

 

[Velho]

3 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

You did not have that for years as a catcher and did just fine.

I'm guessing this is sarcasm?

Catcher's have a glove and know what's coming. Also the umpire has 2x the pitch quantity of the catcher and you could maybe argue foul tips are worse for ump vs catcher.

Oh, and catchers are much much younger. 😁

[MadMax]

5 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

Figure as a former catcher you would just wear what they wear since they get the best of everything and the quality.

The modifications I made to this K1 were for a colleague, not for me.

I chose my first “real” CP – a Schutt AiR Flex I – because I had worn a Schutt AiR Varsity helmet & Schutt shoulder pads in HS football as a WR / PR / KR, and I really favored the lightest, most ventilated gear possible. 

The Wilsons were too… fat… and bloated… and hot… and way too expensive!!!

So, I’ve relied on a Schutt CP now for 12 of my 14 years of umpiring, and I’m likely to continue, possibly only switching if I persuade myself to go with the Cobalt, or if Ray and I one day collaborate on a new CP. 🍺 Once I left my catcher’s CP behind, and started on my path (or climb? Or… dive?) to more intense baseball, I never considered going back to that ole’ washboard. 

[dumbdumb]

7 hours ago, Velho said:

I'm guessing this is sarcasm?

Catcher's have a glove and know what's coming. Also the umpire has 2x the pitch quantity of the catcher and you could maybe argue foul tips are worse for ump vs catcher.

Oh, and catchers are much much younger. 😁

Molina, the old man, doesnt even flinch on a those shots on those superman quality player chest protectors (and they set up in the kill zone more often for location, even if they know what pitch is coming. the only thing they may miss is that extra padding on the throwing arm side. most umpires do not work everyday on the plate, so the catchers catch up on those days you have the bases, and if you get to do 3 and 4 man they are back ahead of you. heck, the 3BU for college conference games (except one conference in the west that chose to pay more to the 3 other guys, rather than add a 4th umpire to their conference or non con games) do not even have to work the plate on a weekend series.

and age is only proving with analytics that umpires start missing more pitches per game.

[dumbdumb]

9 hours ago, kylejt said:

There's no good, reasonable reason not wear pro gear. None.

Do I need to repeat my story about my heart rhythm being messed up in a 10 year old game while wearing less than pro gear? 

 

yes, and that high quality professional players chest protectors (or like a carlucci) will provide that part as well as the plates, as will other chest protectors compared to that thin sheet protector of olden days.. believe i saw where LL batters or anyone can wear a strapped on heart padding piece to protect themselves, just like a helmet does. maybe an ump can strap that on as well underneath for extra extra protection. and try to work as many base games as possible over a career. they need base umpires also. or go to slow pitch softball with no gear other than uniform like the 2 other major sports.

[BT_Blue]

3 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

yes, and that high quality professional players chest protectors (or like a carlucci) will provide that part as well as the plates, as will other chest protectors compared to that thin sheet protector of olden days.. believe i saw where LL batters or anyone can wear a strapped on heart padding piece to protect themselves, just like a helmet does. maybe an ump can strap that on as well underneath for extra extra protection. and try to work as many base games as possible over a career. they need base umpires also. or go to slow pitch softball with no gear other than uniform like the 2 other major sports.

The added chest protection is not a bad idea. And just last year NFHS instituted a requirement that ALL catchers chest protectors either include the new heart blast plate, or that a catcher wear a special under shirt that includes the blast plate.

It is not a bad idea to be honest!

[BT_Blue]

14 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

https://www.catchershome.com/mlb-catchers-gear/

 

With as obsessed as we are with "wearing what the pros wear." I find myself surprised that this website exists. It makes perfect sense that it would. It just caught me by surprise.

 

[kylejt]

To me, there's a difference with "wear what the pros wear" and "wear pro gear".

I've asked a couple of MLB umpires what they wear, and why, and wasn't impressed. "Whatever they send in the box" was one response. I've observed others get injured wearing a bucket, and still wear the same thing. Those forehead shots are no joke. 

So I'm a proponent of wearing professional grade gear, not just what we see guys on TV doing. We seem to hold them on some sort of pedestal. Some are very thoughtful about their protection. Others, not so much. And remember, MLB guys do a plate only every 4 or 5 days .Most of us are doing 4 or 5 a week, if not more, and don't have a professional catcher in front of us. 

 

[wolfe_man]

1 hour ago, BT_Blue said:

The added chest protection is not a bad idea. And just last year NFHS instituted a requirement that ALL catchers chest protectors either include the new heart blast plate, or that a catcher wear a special under shirt that includes the blast plate.

It is not a bad idea to be honest!

But if we're wearing a F3, Wilson, Schutt hard-shell, etc. we should not NEED a heart protector. The hard shell does that for us.  The NOCSAE requirement was for catcher's wearing soft-shell CP's to have to add the heart protector if their existing CP wasn't strong enough.

I mean you can add it, but it's overkill on a hard-shell CP.

[kylejt]

No NOCSAE requirements for any umpire gear. #noonecares

[kylejt]

1 hour ago, wolfe_man said:

But if we're wearing a F3, Wilson, Schutt hard-shell, etc. we should not NEED a heart protector. The hard shell does that for us.  The NOCSAE requirement was for catcher's wearing soft-shell CP's to have to add the heart protector if their existing CP wasn't strong enough.

I mean you can add it, but it's overkill on a hard-shell CP.

I'd never question anyone's choice for more protection. I know umpires that either use the raft, or wear the best on the market, because of heart issues. Others that can't/won't work the plate because of cornea problems. We're all out there at a calculated risk, weighing all the factors, and hopefully making informed decisions. And then there's those that don't bother with a throat protector, so...............................:)

 

[wolfe_man]

3 hours ago, kylejt said:

I'd never question anyone's choice for more protection. I know umpires that either use the raft, or wear the best on the market, because of heart issues. Others that can't/won't work the plate because of cornea problems. We're all out there at a calculated risk, weighing all the factors, and hopefully making informed decisions. And then there's those that don't bother with a throat protector, so...............................:)

 

I’d never deny anyone the right to protect themself, but…

To each, their own.

[boyinr]

22 hours ago, kylejt said:

There's no good, reasonable reason not wear pro gear. None.

Do I need to repeat my story about my heart rhythm being messed up in a 10 year old game while wearing less than pro gear? 

 

The cost difference between the best gear and the marginal gear doesn’t cover one co-pay to the urgent care.  “It might be okay” isn’t good enough for me.  Says no one after taking a shot “ I wish I had less protective gear on. I really would have liked to have felt that a lot more”.  

[MadMax]

23 hours ago, boyinr said:

The cost difference between the best gear and the marginal gear doesn’t cover one co-pay to the urgent care.

And that begs the rhetorical question – what defines “best”? 

@kylejt constantly advocates for best-fitting gear, and to that, he has a valid point. Besides that, though, what constitutes “best CP” or “best mask”? What? Just because the MLB logo is on it? 

Pffffft. 

[dumbdumb]

11 hours ago, MadMax said:

And that begs the rhetorical question – what defines “best”? 

@kylejt constantly advocates for best-fitting gear, and to that, he has a valid point. Besides that, though, what constitutes “best CP” or “best mask”? What? Just because the MLB logo is on it? 

Pffffft. 

now your cradle to grave list, z ball (t-ball) to MLBU that will work nicely, even if not on your list above. if that list above would only be the ones you already listed, so be it. there may only be one, but for certain things even if you dont want to list them and they do have some MLBU or MLBPA on them.