detached equipment

[Guest davidr@k2search.com]

WORKING UNDER FHSAA RULES. i WAS ON THE BASES. THE PITCHER HAD TOO MUCH HAIR AND TOO SMALL A CAP AND  EVERY TIME HE THREW THE BALL HIS HAT FELL OFF. 

THANKFULLY IT DID NOT HAPPEN BUT WHAT IF A SHARPLY HIT GROUND BALL LANDS IN THE HAT AND THEY BOTH ARE ROLLING TOWARD SECOND BASE.

ALL COMMENTS APPRECIATED

THANKS

DAVID

[noumpere 3,330]

Play on.  The "detached equipment" rule requires intent -- I think the wording is something like "thrown, tossed or kicked"

 

PLEASE DON'T SHOUT

[maven 5,007]

Equipment and uniforms shall be properly worn. Find a way to fix it, or put in a sub. There is no penalty.

[Rich Ives 1,167]

1 hour ago, Guest davidr@k2search.com said:

WORKING UNDER FHSAA RULES. i WAS ON THE BASES. THE PITCHER HAD TOO MUCH HAIR AND TOO SMALL A CAP AND  EVERY TIME HE THREW THE BALL HIS HAT FELL OFF. 

THANKFULLY IT DID NOT HAPPEN BUT WHAT IF A SHARPLY HIT GROUND BALL LANDS IN THE HAT AND THEY BOTH ARE ROLLING TOWARD SECOND BASE.

ALL COMMENTS APPRECIATED

THANKS

DAVID

It wasn't deliberate so no "detached equipment " penalty.

Play on. 

 

See 5.09(a)(8) comment - treat it as a helmet.

[Senor Azul 582]

I’m guessing that the FHSAA mentioned in the OP is the Florida High School Athletic Association so the rule citation that Mr. Rich Ives provided wouldn’t be the right one to use here. The applicable high school rule is 8-3-3b and the case play illustrating its application is 8.3.3 Situation F.

And the issue raised about the pitcher not being able to keep his cap on is covered in 2019 case play 10.2.3C--

10.2.3 SITUATION C: F1’s cap frequently falls off his head and in the umpire’s judgment, it is either distracting to the batter or delaying the game.

RULING: The umpire shall instruct the defensive team’s coach that F1’s cap must be secured. If this situation is not corrected, F1 will be removed as pitcher.

[beerguy55 796]

As stated above, don't let it get to that point....tape or Velcro....or a chin strap.

Unfortunately, FED specifically makes a cap mandatory equipment, or I'd say just take the damned thing off...OBR seems to be a bit more flexible here.  ie. no specific reference to a cap, but it does say all teammates must conform (OK - everyone remove the caps?) but not really clear on what exactly that means -  MLB certainly ignores the conformity of teammates part when it comes to pants vs knickers, socks vs stirrups.  My assumption is more about everyone wearing the "away" or the "home". 

[Rich Ives 1,167]

2 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

As stated above, don't let it get to that point....tape or Velcro....or a chin strap.

 

Jim Bouton

[Senor Azul 582]

Mr. beerguy55, your comments about FED requiring caps in their rules and OBR does not made me wonder. So I looked it up and here’s what I found. Baseball players have been wearing caps since circa 1851. Uniforms of a team have been required by rule to be identical in color and style since 1899. And the odd thing is that the pro rule has never mentioned caps in its rule. But let not your heart be troubled because there is an official interpretation—

From the 2016 BRD (section 557, p. 366):

OBR Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  Hats are part of the uniform and should be worn properly by team members who are playing on defense.

From the 2013 Wendelstedt manual (p. 34):

Hats are a required piece of the uniform and must be worn properly, as designed, by defensive team members, and by any member of the coaching staff. An exception is when the catcher wears his hat backwards underneath his protective helmet.

From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (p. 204):

A uniform consists of a hat, shirt, sleeves, jacket, pants, stirrups, socks, and shoes…All players of a team must wear uniforms identical in color, trim, and style (3.03a)…

A hat is not required unless the person is on defense or is coaching a base; when worn, it must be worn properly (hats are not reversible) and hats must be identical for all team personnel.

And the NCAA, like the FED, has an actual rule requiring caps to be worn in its rule 1-14h.

[beerguy55 796]

8 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

All players of a team must wear uniforms identical in color, trim, and style (3.03a)…

Thanks - I find it interesting that on any given team you will find a player with long pants to the ankle, another player with long pants over the heel, another player with knickers and socks above the knee, another with knickers and socks below the knee, and another player with knickers and stirrups....some of these players may as well just be wearing a tam and plus fours...and Hunter Pence, especially late in his career, certainly seemed like he was intentionally trying to make his knees appear higher than they were.

 

And don't get me started on flat brim vs curved brim...

[Rich Ives 1,167]

3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Thanks - I find it interesting that on any given team you will find a player with long pants to the ankle, another player with long pants over the heel, another player with knickers and socks above the knee, another with knickers and socks below the knee, and another player with knickers and stirrups....some of these players may as well just be wearing a tam and plus fours...and Hunter Pence, especially late in his career, certainly seemed like he was intentionally trying to make his knees appear higher than they were.

 

And don't get me started on flat brim vs curved brim...

Sleeve lengths have been allowed to vary by rule as long as I can remember and I'm pretty old. I guess the leg length is just an extension of that.

Hats used to come out of the box flat-brimmed. Players curved them. Could thus be argued that flat is the intended way to wear them.  

[WilsonFlyer 24]

Apparently this is not as much of an uncommon problem as I had hoped. If we have a kid that pitches and can't seem to keep his hat on (It falls off virtually every other pitch at least.), what do you guys do? I can't find anything in the rule book to really help me out specifically. I had a coach get pretty snotty about it when I said something about it once. Is there anything that can be done, really?

 

 

[noumpere 3,330]

7 hours ago, WilsonFlyer said:

Apparently this is not as much of an uncommon problem as I had hoped. If we have a kid that pitches and can't seem to keep his hat on (It falls off virtually every other pitch at least.), what do you guys do? I can't find anything in the rule book to really help me out specifically. I had a coach get pretty snotty about it when I said something about it once. Is there anything that can be done, really?

 

 

See St. Azul's post above:  If this situation is not corrected, F1 will be removed as pitcher.

 

It will only take doing it once and the situation will be fixed.

[Senor Azul 582]

As Mr. noumpere pointed out we have already posted the case play for the FED so here’s what I found for the NCAA and OBR—

From the 2016 BRD (section 202, p. 145):

NCAA:  The pitcher’s cap falls off during delivery:  Point not covered.

Official Interpretation:  Umpires are to consider this a distraction to bother the umpire and the hitter. It is up to the UIC to correct this before continuing the contest.

OBR Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  The umpire has the authority to have a pitcher remove any items or equipment that he believes is distracting. He may do so on his own initiative or at the request of the offensive team. However, a request from the offensive team does not compel the umpire to remove the item or equipment. That is still left to the judgment of the umpire.

In the 2017 Jaksa/Roder rules interpretation manual it says, “an umpire must pay particular attention to the pitcher when enforcing uniform and equipment regulations.” OBR rule 3.03 is the rule that governs what can and cannot be on a player’s uniform and Jaksa/Roder says, “an umpire should give exceptional scrutiny to the pitcher regarding these prohibitions.”

 

Mr. WilsonFlyer, I hope this is enough to satisfy your snotty coach. And, Mr. noumpere, thanks for elevating me to sainthood (See St. Azul's post above: ). I guess it’s because you know that I am always here for you. Bless your heart!

[catsbackr 536]

On 1/20/2021 at 8:01 AM, WilsonFlyer said:

Apparently this is not as much of an uncommon problem as I had hoped. If we have a kid that pitches and can't seem to keep his hat on (It falls off virtually every other pitch at least.), what do you guys do? I can't find anything in the rule book to really help me out specifically. I had a coach get pretty snotty about it when I said something about it once. Is there anything that can be done, really?

 

 

Start you response to the snotty coach with, "By rule..."

 

That should do it.

[Matt 1,630]

There's a reason I keep a stapler in my bag.

[LRZ 388]

On 1/20/2021 at 8:01 AM, WilsonFlyer said:

I had a coach get pretty snotty about it when I said something about it once. Is there anything that can be done, really?

Yeah, toss the coach.

[MadMax 2,308]

17 hours ago, Matt said:

There's a reason I keep a stapler in my bag.

And I have black duct tape.