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Guest Shawn

Little League - arm bands allowed?

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Guest Shawn

Are captain arm-bands allowed in Little League?  I see in the uniform rules "3.03 (1.11) Player Uniforms" that all jerseys must match and that players aren't allowed to attach tape/other material of differing colors, but if these bands are 1) elastic and 2) same color as jerseys (e.g. royal blue jerseys with royal blue band), they should be ok, right?  Thanks in advance.

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Guest Shawn
29 minutes ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

Never heard of a team captain in Little League.

Yeah, I know captains in baseball aren't really a thing anymore, especially in Little League.  It's nothing terribly official or anything like that.  Just a coaching tactic to provide motivation for the kids to be leaders, etc.  Would be great to use it at games but not a big deal if we can't.

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We have allowed them so long as they "match" the uni and are not on the throwing arm of a pitcher and white

 

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1.11j is the prohibition against jewelry.  I don't allow rubber wristbands, I probably wouldn't allow this if I caught it.  (Comment from the Rules and Instruction Manual: "If it isn’t something for a medical condition, it is jewelry!")

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Ditch the captains. Use this as a reason.  

Regulation XII (b ) No awards shall be made to players on the basis of comparable skills or accomplishments.

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personally, if it's not distracting to me or the batter, and he can throw strikes, he can strap a live chicken to his arm...

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22 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Ditch the captains. Use this as a reason.  

Regulation XII (b ) No awards shall be made to players on the basis of comparable skills or accomplishments.

So what's the penalty for a violation?

So, no home run balls, no game balls, no nothing!

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When we have home runs in our local league, I explain to the parents that the rulebook states that "No awards shall be made to players on the basis of comparable skills or accomplishments".  I then add, "nowhere does it state that I cannot thank the parents for what they do behind the scenes" (as I hand mom the HR ball). 

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18 minutes ago, Lou B said:

So what's the penalty for a violation?

So, no home run balls, no game balls, no nothing!

It's my excuse for disallowing captains. 

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Would a home run count as "comparable ... accomplishment"? I read that as "Trophy for most home runs on the team," not giving the ball to a kid who hit a home run or a game ball to the pitcher who threw a no-hitter.

Yes, I know a ball is an "award" and it can easily be argued that it's a "comparable ... accomplishment" and that my statement is sitting on a 4-legged stool with only 2 legs, but I'm still asking the question.

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Probably should kick the kid out if he hit a home run and they gave him the ball. LOL 

It's not about showing off your knowledge of the rules - it's about getting the plays and calls right. If another coach didn't call it out, would you really care if it's not distracting? If you've got the flexibility on how you are calling balls and strikes, surely you have that flexibility too. 

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I put this up there with the pitcher cannot wear sunglasses... Unless it is distracting, I am not picking this one. @Rich Ives brings up the actual ruling, but from an officials standpoint, I have no idea why that kid is wearing that arm band, so that is not something I am looking to rule on.

Let the kids play, and if that coach is able to motivate his kids, I say let him... Enforcing that regulation is a matter for the league BOD to handle.

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On 9/10/2019 at 9:14 AM, stevis said:

1.11j is the prohibition against jewelry.  I don't allow rubber wristbands, I probably wouldn't allow this if I caught it.  (Comment from the Rules and Instruction Manual: "If it isn’t something for a medical condition, it is jewelry!")

 

If I could pull this out of the Little League specific conversation for a moment ...

When you say “wristband” I am thinking a “sweat band”; aka, something of the athletic variety.  No reason to consider that jewelry.

Those rubber things you refer to are not wristbands to me.  They are bracelets ... aka, jewelry.

Braided string around the wrist?  Bracelet = jewelry.

Braided paracord around the neck?  Necklace = jewelry.

One that you will run into in girls softball frequently is the hair tie on the wrist.  Having coached and had girls who played, I understand the need to have extra hair ties handy.  Personally, I’m not considering that as jewelry, but many umps do.  I will make pitchers take it of the pitching arm though.  I’ve had guys and gals ask me why do that if I don’t consider it jewelry ... my advice is avoid that slippery slope.

My knock on most of the softball orgs and their jewelry rules is that they publish a rule saying it is the umpire’s discretion ... and then completely circumvent the umpires’ authority by issuing interpretations to the contrary.  It should either be legal or illegal ... this isn’t an area for discretion.

Sorry for the tangent ...

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1 hour ago, Lou B said:

"With" The Book Not "By" The Book!  :)

Which is why.............

1 hour ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

When we have home runs in our local league, I explain to the parents that the rulebook states that "No awards shall be made to players on the basis of comparable skills or accomplishments".  I then add, "nowhere does it state that I cannot thank the parents for what they do behind the scenes" (as I hand mom the HR ball). 

Let's face it, I'm sure we all know WHO is going to end up with the HR ball.

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1 hour ago, yawetag said:

Would a home run count as "comparable ... accomplishment"? I read that as "Trophy for most home runs on the team," not giving the ball to a kid who hit a home run or a game ball to the pitcher who threw a no-hitter.

Yes, I know a ball is an "award" and it can easily be argued that it's a "comparable ... accomplishment" and that my statement is sitting on a 4-legged stool with only 2 legs, but I'm still asking the question.

 I'm trying to shoot down having captains.  Having coached that level for 32 years I can attest that a team leader will emerge very soon in spring practice. You will notice him. Then just keep him pointed in the proper direction and others will follow. To have an official captain makes him your chosen one rather than the natural leader the kids selected. 

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10 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

I'm trying to shoot down having captains.

That's not an issue for umpires to get involved with; that's for you to deal with, Coach.

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10 hours ago, LRZ said:

That's not an issue for umpires to get involved with; that's for you to deal with, Coach.

But the arm band under discussion is - no captain - no arm band - get it now? And in LL the UIC is usually on the board.

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Wait a minute ... if we issue an arm ban, how are the kids going to throw, hit, or catch?!  :P

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10 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

But the arm band under discussion is - no captain - no arm band - get it now? And in LL the UIC is usually on the board.

You are shifting the discussion. If I understand you correctly, you want to ditch captains because it could prevent natural leaders from rising. But that is a separate issue from the legality of arm bands. What if a coach recognized the natural team leader with a captain's arm band? Or wished to reward a lesser but hard-working kid?

My point is that, to an umpire, the issue of team captains is irrelevant; we might get involved (or not) when captains are acknowledged with arm bands.

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Guest Shawn

Holy cow, never thought my question would generate this type of discussion!  Thanks everyone for your input.  Not to drag it out further, but - regarding some of the thoughts/ideas tossed around in the responses:

  • First, I'm bringing a live chicken to Saturday's game and see how that goes over with my ump.  ;-)
  • I'm getting the sense it's a bit of a "gray area" based on the interpretations above -- that it doesn't necessarily fit the "jewelry" argument but that it "must match the jersey", and should not be distracting.  In the end if the ump decides it's an issue or the other coach pitches a fit, we just take them off. Easy peasy.
  • My thought process is this - yes, I know who my natural leaders are, but I want to develop those qualities in others.  I chose 2 for the first week, while explaining to the whole team why I believe these guys are leaders (i.e. reinforce it is not a matter of skills or popularity) and the expectations around it (they must continue to earn trust & respect, set the example, it does not make them the boss, etc.).  After each week's game, those 2 captains take off the bands and present them to another pair of teammates and explain how the new ones demonstrated solid leadership over the past week.  Hopefully that encourages the kids to A) strive to be leaders, B) learn to observe and encourage/praise leadership qualities, and C) realize it's about earning the trust and respect of your team, not kissing your coach's butt.

Thanks for all the input!

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On 9/10/2019 at 10:27 PM, jjb said:

personally, if it's not distracting to me or the batter, and he can throw strikes, he can strap a live chicken to his arm...

Every pitch would be a cockshot.

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3 hours ago, Guest Shawn said:

Holy cow, never thought my question would generate this type of discussion!  

A rule of thumb: ask ten officials for their opinion, and you get twenty answers.

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Guest Shawn ... what kind of wrist band are you using?  The rubber band jewelry or an athletic sweat band?

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15 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Guest Shawn ... what kind of wrist band are you using?  The rubber band jewelry or an athletic sweat band?

It's not a wrist-band.  It's a band that goes over the sleeve (bicep area) of the jersey.

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