The (embarrassing) story of my first two EJs

[MulletUmp]

Drinking game: Take a shot every time I should’ve EJ’d before I ultimately did. 

My rookie year. 8u baseball. Runner at 2nd. Batter hits a ball to 3B. 3rd baseman tags the runner and I call him out. VTHC comes raging out of his dugout at me.

VTHC: “NOOOOOOO!! HE DIDN’T EVEN TAG HIM BLUE!!!” 

Me: I have the runner being tagged coach. 

VTHC just goes on for a bit disputing the call and I repeat myself and say “this conversation is over.” And I get back to my position. 

Next batter reaches first safely and VTHC says “Hey blue, my run would’ve scored on that if you hadn’t called him out!” 

Another play happens at third, and I call the runner safe this time. VTHC sarcastically applauds that I got one right this time.

Later on there’s a close play at first and I call his runner out. Here he comes raging at me again as well as the AC who screams “THAT’S TWO CALLS NOW!” 

Half innings he comes out to talk to me “blue, I think you should find another profession man.” 

VTAC chimes in again. “YEAH, YOU’VE BLOWN LIKE THREE CALLS TODAY!!!” So I told him that’s enough.

VTAC: You don’t scare me... you’re a kid. 

Boom, I dump him. 

VTAC: Okay. I’ve gotta go? Where do I go? (He asks again, then leaves.) 

Later on VT batter hits a home run. I turn it back on appeal and send him back to second and as I explain myself VTHC comes out to argue again, but more respectfully this time. But.. not completely clean. 

VTHC: No way man, he should get third. 

Nope. Back to second. 

VTHC: You were right on top of that.

Nope. My call stands.

VTHC: You’re f**king me dude. 

Boom. Done. 

VTHC as he walks away: ..... you are. 

I guess at this point the only thing I did right was give the AC a short leash and then drop him when he blew through my stop sign and said I was just a kid. Took waaay too much heat from HTHC. Anyway, that’s the story of my first two EJs.

[Replacematt]

I'm originally from Wisconsin, so I would still be relatively sober after the five shots this would entail.

[yawetag]

3 hours ago, MulletUmp said:

Later on VT batter hits a home run. I turn it back on appeal and send him back to second

What does this mean?

[MulletUmp]

2 hours ago, yawetag said:

What does this mean?

It was an 8u game on a field with no fence. In my league it’s a dead ball when the ball crosses back into the infield. (8u only) I didn’t call Dead ball at first but the HTHC appealed the ball should’ve been dead when it came back across the infield. I had no idea of that rule until this exact play happened. So I changed my call based on the rule interpretation and sent the runner back to second. 

[udbrky]

I would've tossed when they said to get a new profession.

[yawetag]

5 hours ago, MulletUmp said:

It was an 8u game on a field with no fence. In my league it’s a dead ball when the ball crosses back into the infield. (8u only) I didn’t call Dead ball at first but the HTHC appealed the ball should’ve been dead when it came back across the infield. I had no idea of that rule until this exact play happened. So I changed my call based on the rule interpretation and sent the runner back to second. 

Interesting rule. What happens if a player is advancing between bases when the ball makes it to the infield? What's considered "in the infield"? Does it require an infielder to have possession, or just that the ball is in the confines of the "infield"? What's the definition of "infield"?

[Lou B]

Generally, in that age group, the local rule is the ball becomes dead and play stops when the ball is returned to the pitcher on the mound/in the dirt circle and the pitcher holds the ball.  Never heard of one that says "in the infield" before. 

As previously asked, what's in the infield, does the ball need to be in the possession of a fielder, do runners continue to the base they were advancing to or do they return to the one last touched, etc, etc, etc???

[MulletUmp]

1 hour ago, Lou B said:

Generally, in that age group, the local rule is the ball becomes dead and play stops when the ball is returned to the pitcher on the mound/in the dirt circle and the pitcher holds the ball.  Never heard of one that says "in the infield" before. 

As previously asked, what's in the infield, does the ball need to be in the possession of a fielder, do runners continue to the base they were advancing to or do they return to the one last touched, etc, etc, etc???

They don’t need to have possession, as soon as it crosses and lands in the infield, the runner goes back to the last base they touched if they weren’t halfway to the next base. 

[The Man in Blue]

My vote: it’s 8u.  The shots needed to start before the game.

 

I try to avoid 8u at all costs.  MOST of the arguments happen over that judgment call of where was the ball/where was the runner when it comes time to kill it (whether you use the infield, hash marks, half way, 3/4 of the way ... it doesn’t matter).  When I ran a summer program, we decided we were not going to use umpires for 8u/coach pitch.  It did help to force the coaches to stay more focused on the things they should be focused on.

MOST 8u games the coaches (and several parents) need to go.  This is where I struggle.  On one hand, I would be happy to be very quick with the toss so that these people would learn proper etiquette and be proper role models.  On the other hand, kids shouldn’t have to be exposed to EJs that early in their career.

[Aging_Arbiter]

25 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

MOST 8u games the coaches (and several parents) need to go

Most?                        Youth sports, as it is today, is ruined by adults.

[Thatsnotyou]

10 hours ago, udbrky said:

I would've tossed when they said to get a new profession.

Agreed. A comment like that between innings, boom. However, I would have tossed the AC one line before it when he showed everyone he knows how to count to 2. 

[yawetag]

3 hours ago, MulletUmp said:

They don’t need to have possession, as soon as it crosses and lands in the infield, the runner goes back to the last base they touched if they weren’t halfway to the next base. 

That's the dumbest rule I've ever heard - and I work Fed baseball.

R1 tries to advance to 3B on a clean hit to F9. F9 attempts to throw him out, but airmails it over F5's head as R1 is 10 feet from 3B. You kill it and send R1 back to 2B?

I hope the pay is worth it, cause no way in hell am I dealing with (1) those rules or (2) the (a) coaches, (b) players, (c) and parents who complain when I enforce them.

[scrounge]

14 hours ago, MulletUmp said:

It was an 8u game on a field with no fence. In my league it’s a dead ball when the ball crosses back into the infield. (8u only) I didn’t call Dead ball at first but the HTHC appealed the ball should’ve been dead when it came back across the infield. I had no idea of that rule until this exact play happened. So I changed my call based on the rule interpretation and sent the runner back to second. 

Our local rec league has essentially the same rule as well. But we use youth umpires for 8U, generally 13-15 kids making $20 a game.

[MulletUmp]

23 hours ago, yawetag said:

R1 tries to advance to 3B on a clean hit to F9. F9 attempts to throw him out, but airmails it over F5's head as R1 is 10 feet from 3B. You kill it and send R1 back to 2B?

 

If the thrown ball hits the ground before they were halfway to 3B, yes.

[Lou B]

So you teach your outfielders to just throw the ball to the infield as opposed to throwing it to an infielder or the pitcher.  Ball hits the infield dirt/grass with no one within 20-25 feet of it and the ball is dead. Sounds more like T-Ball than 8U but it is what it is. 

 

[The Man in Blue]

On 5/31/2019 at 2:43 PM, yawetag said:

That's the dumbest rule I've ever heard - and I work Fed baseball.

R1 tries to advance to 3B on a clean hit to F9. F9 attempts to throw him out, but airmails it over F5's head as R1 is 10 feet from 3B. You kill it and send R1 back to 2B?

I hope the pay is worth it, cause no way in hell am I dealing with (1) those rules or (2) the (a) coaches, (b) players, (c) and parents who complain when I enforce them.

Before I started umpiring, I ran our summer youth program.  Our “coach pitch” used a similar rule with half-way hash marks.  One of my goals was to find a better way of running coach pitch because A) coaches were not teaching kids to run bases, they were teaching them to run track; and B) they weren’t teaching them to make plays, it was just “throw it to the pitcher”.

The repercussions of this became evident in a local middle school game when the third baseman fielded a ball clean, popped up, and threw the ball to the ... pitcher.

The next year we moved the half-way hash to 3/4 of the way, killed the play for the runner when the ball was on the infield (instead to the pitcher), and allowed the defense to try to tag the runner out when returning to the last base touched.  It slowed the “off to the races” game down some and encouraged the coaches who were teaching the game properly.

I realized years later that the sad part was we were writing rules to reign in coaches, not to help teach the game.

 

[Lou B]

So you teach your outfielders to just throw the ball to the infield as opposed to throwing it to an infielder or the pitcher.  Ball hits the infield dirt/grass with no one within 20-25 feet of it and the ball is dead. Sounds more like T-Ball than 8U but it is what it is. 

The Man in Blue: R1 and batter singles to center. R1 rounds second and heads for third.  F8 throws the ball in to second and R1 is half way to third.  R1 now has to turn around and go back to second where they are waiting to tag him out?

 

[MulletUmp]

On 6/1/2019 at 8:38 PM, Lou B said:

R1 now has to turn around and go back to second where they are waiting to tag him out?

 

No. I call Dead ball and just put the runner back at the last base they touched before the ball crossed the infield. 

The outfielders do actually try to get the ball to the infielders. But of course this being 8u they never really make the throw accurately. 

[yawetag]

The happy medium is to allow runners to only advance to the base they were attempting when the ball reaches the infield. No further. No sending back if they're not halfway (or 3/4 of the way), no throwing to a random infielder.

[urout17]

Clear Ridge, huh?  I grew up right down Archer off Central.

[Lou B]

12 hours ago, MulletUmp said:

No. I call Dead ball and just put the runner back at the last base they touched before the ball crossed the infield. 

The outfielders do actually try to get the ball to the infielders. But of course this being 8u they never really make the throw accurately. 

I was referring to the post made by The Man in Blue where he said the defense was allowed to try to tag the runner returning to the previous base.  Seemed a bit odd making a runner return and then allowing him to be tagged for an out.  Maybe I misunderstood the post???

[HokieUmp]

I am SO drunk right now....

And I'm at work.

[Sut'n Blue]

On 5/30/2019 at 7:40 PM, MulletUmp said:

Next batter reaches first safely and VTHC says “Hey blue, my run would’ve scored on that if you hadn’t called him out!” 

After that comment he gets The Hand and a loud, clear: "You're pushing your luck. You get one warning and this is it."

If he later went ahead with "That's two call now." he would be gone.

 

 

[kylehutson]

On 5/31/2019 at 2:49 PM, scrounge said:

But we use youth umpires for 8U, generally 13-15 kids making $20 a game.

Luxury. We only get $14. And that's up $2 from last year.

[MulletUmp]

On 6/3/2019 at 4:53 PM, kylehutson said:

Luxury. We only get $14. And that's up $2 from last year.

You’re joking.

I get $28-30 just for 8u depending on which league I umpire in. There’s 3 different leagues I work for, one pays $28 and the other two pay $30. 

Here I thought the main league was underpaying me at $28 for 8u.