Pitching

[Guest Ted]

Once a pitcher starts his windup can he hesitate before he throws the ball

[stkjock]

He can, with runners on base he’s committed s balk. 

[maven]

9 hours ago, Guest Ted said:

Once a pitcher starts his windup can he hesitate before he throws the ball

As long as any part of his body (toes wiggling, eyebrows twitching, etc.) is in motion, he is legal. With no runners on, he's probably legal in any case.

[Senor Azul]

2011 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 20: With R1 on third base, the pitcher is in the windup position. At the top of his motion, he pauses for two or three seconds and then delivers. RULING: The umpire shall declare a balk and score R1 from third base. After a pitcher starts his motion to pitch, he must continue the motion without interruption or alteration. (6-1-2)

NFHS rule 6-1-2 states (concerning the pitcher):

“…After he starts his movement to pitch, he must continue the motion without interruption or alteration.”

PENALTY:  The ball is dead immediately when an illegal pitch occurs. If there is no runner, a ball is awarded the batter. If there is a runner, such illegal act is a balk. In both situations, the umpire signals dead ball.

The interpretation was issued by the NFHS in 2011 in response to what some people call the Japanese pause and to re-affirm that the rule had not changed.

The NCAA has an approved ruling that okays the pause in the windup and it can be found in 2018 rule 9-1a Note 2. The OBR has an official interpretation that states the pause is okay in the windup and that interpretation can be found in the Wendelstedt manual and the BRD (section 429, p. 286):

Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  A brief pause in the windup is “not enough to be considered a start and stop.” 

 

So, it is only high school that penalizes the pause in the windup position.

 

[noumpere]

11 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

So, it is only high school that penalizes the pause in the windup position.

 

Yes, by rule.  But, generally not in practice. 

 

And, in all codes, it's going to depend on where in the motion the pitcher stops and for how long.

[KCKUMP]

I am confused here. If a pitcher with runner on throws from the windup and pauses for 3 seconds it seems to me my 64 year old mother could steal a base in that time. If he starts the motion and throws to a bag at anytime it’s a balk otherwise it’s just a kid that pauses and allows everyone to steal with ease

[maven]

5 hours ago, KCKUMP said:

I am confused here. If a pitcher with runner on throws from the windup and pauses for 3 seconds it seems to me my 64 year old mother could steal a base in that time. If he starts the motion and throws to a bag at anytime it’s a balk otherwise it’s just a kid that pauses and allows everyone to steal with ease

That doesn't sound like confusion. It sounds all correct to me, though I do not know your mother, so you might be wrong about that part.

Also, in FED from the windup F1 cannot legally step and throw to a base.

[Guest Ted]

Somehow, the question seems to not have been answered, unless is is HS ball. R1 and pitcher, from set, lifts his free-foot and pauses with knee in the air (good balance) for 2 or 3 seconds. Am I right in interpreting your answer to mean, as long as he delivers to the batter, it is legal? Turning to throw to 1st would be a balk? 

[maven]

14 minutes ago, Guest Ted said:

Somehow, the question seems to not have been answered, unless is is HS ball. R1 and pitcher, from set, lifts his free-foot and pauses with knee in the air (good balance) for 2 or 3 seconds. Am I right in interpreting your answer to mean, as long as he delivers to the batter, it is legal? Turning to throw to 1st would be a balk? 

Right. The step and throw to a base must be "without interruption."

[Senor Azul]

I posted the following at least twice in 2019. From the 2013 Wendelstedt rules interpretation manual (section 6.3, p. 102):

It is a balk when…

The pitcher suspends his foot in the air (he stopped his delivery) in an attempt to hold a runner.

Play 132:  R1, no outs, no count. The left-handed pitcher, after coming stopped in the set position, raises his non-pivot foot off the ground and suspends it in the air, freezing R1. He then steps and throws to first base in an attempt to pick-off R1. Ruling:  This is a balk.

From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder rules interpretation manual (Chapter 18, p. 144):

It is a balk if a pitcher who is in-contact…hesitates in or interrupts his motion to join hands, pitch, throw, or disengage.

R1. A left-handed pitcher lifts his free foot and suspends it, unmoving, for a split second before proceeding in his motion to throw:  hesitation, balk.

[Guest Ted]

Maven, 

Do you have any response to senor Azul's citation. Looks like a balk even if the pitcher "eventually" delivers the pitch. Got quite a mouthful from a coach who pointed to Johnny Cueto as a reference...Geez, MLB umps don't even know how to call this guy.

[MadMax]

16 minutes ago, Guest Ted said:

Got quite a mouthful from a coach who pointed to Johnny Cueto as a reference...

2 points regarding Cueto as the example: 

1. Frequently, YouTube videos of Cueto pitching are thrust before us umpires; invariably, these videos are of Cueto pitching, from the windup with no runners aboard. Can’t be a Balk if there are no Runners.
2. Cueto really pushes the envelope, but he does keep something moving during his delivery, especially if there are Runners aboard (after stopping / coming set). 

We have to remember – MLB umpires are conditioned on the mindset, or perspective, that all pitchers will (try to) cheat. So, if Cueto was in violation of the rule, one of the 4 umpires will git ‘im for it.

[maven]

55 minutes ago, Guest Ted said:

Maven, 

Do you have any response to senor Azul's citation. Looks like a balk even if the pitcher "eventually" delivers the pitch. Got quite a mouthful from a coach who pointed to Johnny Cueto as a reference...Geez, MLB umps don't even know how to call this guy.

No. The rule prohibits a "freeze" when delivering a pitch, which amounts to a double set. Fine.

It's a judgment call. In my experience, something's still moving (watch Cueto). And I've never seen an amateur pitcher freeze for 3 seconds, which is a VERY long time. I suppose if I ever see it, I'll call a balk.

And MLB umpires know exactly how to enforce the pitching rules, with Cueto and every other pitcher.

 

[Senor Azul]

To our guest, Ted, here are links to the two threads I referred to earlier--

 

 

And here are a couple of quotes from Mr. maven offering his theory of balks (one from this thread and the other from one of the linked threads).

If his entire body (literally: every single part of his body, head, face, arms, torso, legs, feet) froze for a substantial interval (umpire judgment), then that would make the pitching motion illegal. The rules require that F1 deliver the pitch "without interruption" once the motion begins, and such a pause would constitute an illegal interruption. With runners on, that's a balk.

As long as any part of his body (toes wiggling, eyebrows twitching, etc.) is in motion, he is legal. With no runners on, he's probably legal in any case.

 

Now I would like you to consider the history of the rule—it first appeared in 1898 as…

Rule 32 sec. 6--A balk shall be:  The making of any motion the pitcher habitually makes in his method of delivery, without his immediately delivering the ball to the bat.

Then it became in 1904 rule 34 sec. 8--A balk shall be:  Making any motion of the arm, shoulder, hip or body the pitcher habitually makes in his method of delivery, without immediately delivering the ball to the bat.

By 1941 it had become rule 31 sec 8--A balk entitling the base-runner, or runners, to advance one base shall be called by the umpires as follows:  Making any motion of the arm, shoulder, hip, knee, foot or body the pitcher habitually makes in his method of delivery, without immediately delivering the ball to the bat.

Please note that it has never been illegal for the pitcher to move his head. Also, they began to enumerate what body parts were important to the rule. All of those moving body parts are easily seen by everyone in the ballpark unlike those parts Mr. maven referred to—head, face, wiggling toes, and eyebrows twitching. It has never been the intent of the rule to make runners or anyone else concentrate on such small details of the human anatomy.

[Senor Azul]

Now I would like to address the question of Major League umpires calling balks compared to us. I contend that the MLB powers that be really don’t want their umpires to be overly strict with balk rules and thus we should not compare our handling of pitcher’s rules to the Major Leagues. Here’s why--when there was a rule change and the MLB umpires enforced the rules as written each time it resulted in a huge increase in balk calls which created a huge backlash. Here are a couple links to articles about the history of the number of balks called each season and an excerpt from each--

http://davidventuri.com/blog/balks

The spike in 1988 (1 balk for every ~40 innings pitched) was so dramatic that the season is referred to as The Year of the Balk. All of these spikes coincide with rule changes and enforcements. As per Recondite Baseball:

• 1898/1899: The first balk rule dealing with runners on base was inserted into the rule book in 1898. It stated a pitcher was compelled to throw to a base if he made a motion in that direction. The following year, the balk rule was refined to say a pitcher could not fake a pickoff throw.
• 1950: A new rule requiring a one-second stop before delivering a pitch with men on base was implemented in 1950.
• 1963: The National League cracked down on balks ... for the 1963 season. An order to umpires to clamp down on balks resulted in twenty balks called in the first twenty games of the year.
• 1988 (The Year of the Balk): The 1988 version [of the rules] replaced “complete stop” with “single complete and discernible stop, with both feet on the ground.” This slight change, intended to make balk calls more uniform throughout major league baseball, instead sparked one of the most frustrating summers ever for major league hurlers.

http://reconditebaseball.blogspot.com/2008/08/balks-story-of-1988-major-league.html

Finally, after 924 balks in the major leagues during the 1988 season, baseball’s leaders had had enough. On January 26, 1989, the MLB rules committee decided to change the wording of the balk rule back to what it had been before the 1987 season. Balk totals dropped in 1989 and fell even further in 1990. There haven’t been any spikes in balk numbers since that season.

[Rich Ives]

On 6/24/2018 at 10:15 AM, KCKUMP said:

I am confused here. If a pitcher with runner on throws from the windup and pauses for 3 seconds it seems to me my 64 year old mother could steal a base in that time. If he starts the motion and throws to a bag at anytime it’s a balk otherwise it’s just a kid that pauses and allows everyone to steal with ease

In OBR you can do a pickoff from windup.

 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

In OBR you can do a pickoff from windup.

 

Not after you start your motion to pitch. And I think Wendelstedt has a restriction that you can't pick while you are joining hands in the windup.

[aaluck]

On 6/24/2018 at 9:15 AM, KCKUMP said:

I am confused here. If a pitcher with runner on throws from the windup and pauses for 3 seconds it seems to me my 64 year old mother could steal a base in that time. If he starts the motion and throws to a bag at anytime it’s a balk otherwise it’s just a kid that pauses and allows everyone to steal with ease

Exactly.  Where you normally see this is R1 only (lefty) or R3 only (righty). Had a righty in HS a couple of years ago that did this constantly with R3--sometimes a very short pause and sometimes very long.  Very frustrating and if I see it in HS I'll call it a balk--did then.  There is no question he is trying to deceive the runner. If arms and legs are stopped I'm calling it--not looking for eyebrows or toes.