Batter runs to first on ball 2

[Guest Matt]

Runner on 3rd, 2 outs.

The pitch is a ball but the batter runs to first base provoking a throw from the catcher. The runner on 3rd scores.

Should the play be called dead? Does the run count or does the runner return to 3rd?

[noumpere]

Run counts.  F2 learns a lesson.

 

Win-win.

[Mudisfun]

Score R3.

You... back here. That's ball 2.

Coach - your team is responsible to know what is happening and to know the count/situation.

 

[isired]

You didn't specify a rule set, but this sounds like one of those situations where a local LL coach (I'm assuming this is local LL) feels 'there oughta be a rule!' - but this wouldn't likely happen at any other level, so unless the local league writes a house rule, it's not going to be there. I can't think of a reason to call it dead, and players are often trying to "provoke a throw" - there's no rule against that (though I doubt the batter acted intentionally).

[KCKUMP]

I had a similar play a few years ago. Bases loaded no outs I am BU. Strike 3 looking catcher drops the ball and everyone starts screaming run including the first base coach so he does. Problem is runner at first takes off also gets half way to second and figures out he is in trouble. Defense tags him out and HC loses his mind on me. He wants dead ball at first then he thinks it is my fault for not telling his runner not to run. I said coach it is not my job nor is it fair to assist your players on the field. Walking back to his third base box he thought it would be a good ideal to yell to his fans that the other team paid us and we were cheating....see ya

[isired]

It never ceases to amaze me - D3K is the most misunderstood and undertaught rule. I see youth catchers, baserunners, fielders and coaches all make similar mistakes. I can understand once, but then you hit the books and get it down cold.

[Richvee]

8 hours ago, KCKUMP said:

I said coach it is not my job nor is it fair to assist your players on the field

Maybe others feel differently.... Giving a verbal "Batter's out" along with your normal strike mechanic on  a D3K when he can't run is not assisting. It's a normal mechanic for me whenever I have a batter take off for 1B in a situation where he cannot. 

[KCKUMP]

2 hours ago, Richvee said:

Maybe others feel differently.... Giving a verbal "Batter's out" along with your normal strike mechanic on  a D3K when he can't run is not assisting. It's a normal mechanic for me whenever I have a batter take off for 1B in a situation where he cannot. 

PU did not have a chance as soon as ball dropped everyone started screaming

[MadMax]

6 hours ago, Richvee said:

Giving a verbal "Batter's out" along with your normal strike mechanic on  a D3K when he can't run is not assisting. It's a normal mechanic for me whenever I have a batter take off for 1B in a situation where he cannot. 

This is exactly what the schools and camps teach.

”He’s out. He’s out. He’s still out.” is heard a lot. “Batter’s Out! First base occupied!” is another.

[Richvee]

9 hours ago, MadMax said:

This is exactly what the schools and camps teach.

”He’s out. He’s out. He’s still out.” is heard a lot. “Batter’s Out! First base occupied!” is another.

Had it happen today. 16u. R1, R2 swinging WP 3K. Runners and batter all take off. Three or four times I yell Batter's out, Batter's out. Nobody pays any attention to me, F2 throws to 1B wild, R2 scores, R1 to 3B. Play ends, I'm walking towards 1B pointing at BR standing on 1B with left arm, fist raised with right arm, "You're out. 1B was occupied"....All fine,except now I've got Daddy DHC and parents screaming the other runners have to go back. I just told DHC, "no, they don't go back. Your catcher needs to know the rules"

I know ..Not very diplomatic.  Chirping parents from the get go, and long day for me lead to a short fuse and a wise guy answer from me.

[Jimurray]

5 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Had it happen today. 16u. R1, R2 swinging WP 3K. Runners and batter all take off. Three or four times I yell Batter's out, Batter's out. Nobody pays any attention to me, F2 throws to 1B wild, R2 scores, R1 to 3B. Play ends, I'm walking towards 1B pointing at BR standing on 1B with left arm, fist raised with right arm, "You're out. 1B was occupied"....All fine,except now I've got Daddy DHC and parents screaming the other runners have to go back. I just told DHC, "no, they don't go back. Your catcher needs to know the rules"

I know ..Not very diplomatic.  Chirping parents from the get go, and long day for me lead to a short fuse and a wise guy answer from me.

One demerit for you

[Richvee]

4 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

One demerit for you

I accept my demerit. I'll do better tomorrow.

[Kevin_K]

7 hours ago, Richvee said:

I know ..Not very diplomatic.  Chirping parents from the get go, and long day for me lead to a short fuse and a wise guy answer from me.

I see that you have begun to pick up some of my finer skills!  

[BT_Blue]

Well... This got hijacked! Lol

On 6/8/2018 at 9:47 AM, isired said:

You didn't specify a rule set, but this sounds like one of those situations where a local LL coach (I'm assuming this is local LL) feels 'there oughta be a rule!' - but this wouldn't likely happen at any other level,

Don't count your chickens before they are hatched. I have had this same exact "statement" at levels where the players shave!

[roothog66]

Been there as a coach. A few years ago at 16u, my team in the field - bases loaded, one out. Tie game in a semi-final game, bottom of the seventh. Dropped third, B/R and all base runners take off. I yell at my catcher to step on home plate. PU calls the out and we move on. I immediately realize my mistake. Unfortunately, so does the other coach, who comes out and points out that because first base was occupied, there was no force at home. Could have easily been a double play if I'd kept my mouth shut because I think my F2 understood the situation better than me. PU counts the run - game over. Now, I'm an experienced coach who knew better, but just lost focus for a second. The other thing that bothers me to this day was another argument I DID NOT make. In retrospect, I'm pretty sure R3 took a right turn into the dugout and never actually touched home. The PU had missed the situation as badly as me. Lesson learned.