Force at first

[Mister B]

I was explaining to somebody why the play at 1B is not a force, he didn't believe me and asked for a rule. I thought I'd do some research before asking here and here's what I find at the MLB website: 

Force Play

Definition

A force play occurs when a baserunner is no longer permitted to legally occupy a base and must attempt to advance to the next base. The defense can retire the runner by tagging the next base before he arrives, though not if the defensive team first forces out a trailing runner. In that instance, the force play is removed and the defense must tag the remaining runners to retire them.

First base tends to have the most force plays, as batters are eligible to be forced out at first any time they put the ball into fair territory and it is not caught in the air.

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/rules/force-play

So now, I'm really confused. 

[Gfoley4]

that's not the official rule book, look up the official MLB PDF and then search for the section about "how a team scores"

[White47]

I know it not a force play, but I find easier when talking with casual baseball people ( fans, coaches, even some umpires) to explain it that way.  the differences are minuscule, and most will never understand.

[Thunderheads]

Don't....   explain as a tag play ..............   THE TAG OF THE BASE!  

[Rich Ives]

10 hours ago, Mister B said:

I was explaining to somebody why the play at 1B is not a force, he didn't believe me and asked for a rule. I thought I'd do some research before asking here and here's what I find at the MLB website: 

Force Play

Definition

A force play occurs when a baserunner is no longer permitted to legally occupy a base and must attempt to advance to the next base. The defense can retire the runner by tagging the next base before he arrives, though not if the defensive team first forces out a trailing runner. In that instance, the force play is removed and the defense must tag the remaining runners to retire them.

First base tends to have the most force plays, as batters are eligible to be forced out at first any time they put the ball into fair territory and it is not caught in the air.

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/rules/force-play

So now, I'm really confused. 

I don't know who wrote that but it's not an adequate description.

The batter-runner is never forced. Only a runner already on base can be forced.

On a force play you can tag either the base or the forced runner before he arrives at the forced base..

If a trailing runner is put out or called out (for passing for example) the force is removed.

See "Force Play" in the definitions and  5.09(b )(6)

[beerguy55]

On 4/27/2018 at 11:10 AM, Rich Ives said:

The batter-runner is never forced

And this is where the layman gets confused. He can't just stay at the plate and ask for another at bat.   He can't stop halfway up the line and have the next batter go to the plate.  BR has two choices - go to first or get put out.   He is, by the English language, forced to go to first.  I know how the rule works, and the concepts behind this, and that by rule only runners can be forced, not batter-runners.  But to say that the batter-runner is not forced is counter-intuitive, and that is the source of most of the confusion about what is and is not a force play.  Not to mention that he can be put out by touching the base, like a force play. 

In fact, he is more "forced" than R1 is.  R1 is required to run to second...until and unless BR is put out, and the force is then removed.  Whereas BR's requirement to run to first does not go away.

I can't even fathom why they chose to make that differentiation.

[Guest Nick]

I think the reason for the distinction could derive from the rule about 2 players occupying the same base. If R1 is on first and BR is considered forced, then it would difficult to determine who is out when 2 players occupy the same base, if both are considered forced. Summary of Official Baseball Rule5.06(a)(2) &(b)(2) [former OBR 7.03], if two runners are touching a base at the same time, the following runner is out when tagged (unless, of course, the lead runner is forced).

[blue23ll]

On 4/27/2018 at 5:43 AM, Thunderheads said:

Don't....   explain as a tag play ..............   THE TAG OF THE BASE!  

Of which only FED has a definition of 'tag of a base" GO FED

 

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, Guest Nick said:

I think the reason for the distinction could derive from the rule about 2 players occupying the same base. If R1 is on first and BR is considered forced, then it would difficult to determine who is out when 2 players occupy the same base, if both are considered forced. Summary of Official Baseball Rule5.06(a)(2) &(b)(2) [former OBR 7.03], if two runners are touching a base at the same time, the following runner is out when tagged (unless, of course, the lead runner is forced).

it would still apply, because the lead runner, R1, IS forced.

[Stk004]

A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

By definition, the batter runner can't be forced. 

[scrounge]

Yes, by definition a batter-runner can't be forced, but it has all the hallmarks of a force without being a force. In common parlance, it's a distinction without a difference. Both can be quaintly described as "you can't stay here, you gotta run forward".

 

[noumpere]

15 hours ago, blue23ll said:

Of which only FED has a definition of 'tag of a base" GO FED

 

This seems to cover it in OBR:

 

A TAG is the action of a fielder in touching a base with his body
while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove; or touching
a runner with the ball, or with his hand or glove holding the ball (not
including hanging laces alone), while holding the ball securely and
firmly in his hand or glove.