Stoping motion with no runners on.

[JSam21]

This was another FB baseball group discussion. Pitcher in the wind up, with no one on base, begins his motion and then stops. The OP's game was being played under OBR and the umpire awarded a ball to the batter for an illegal pitch. I said the umpire was mistaken in his game and that under OBR that it was just a reset and that only quick pitches and delivering the ball while facing the batter were illegal pitches. Of course this set off a stream of misinformation from unqualified commenters.

 

Just making sure I'm getting this right. Pitcher stops motion with no one on under OBR and NCAA codes we just reset since no pitch was actually delivered. Under NFHS all pitching infractions become illegal pitches with no one on and a ball would be awarded to the batter. Correct?

[Rich Ives]

You cannot balk with no one on base so don't look at the balk rule.

You can get called for an illegal pitch, but there are only two illegal pitches - a quick pitch and pitching while not in contact.

See the definitions

An ILLEGAL PITCH is (1) a pitch delivered to the batter when the
pitcher does not have his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate; (2)
a quick return pitch. An illegal pitch when runners are on base is a balk.

Neither happened so it's not an illegal pitch.

Therefore it is nothing,.

 

[ALStripes17]

This was another FB baseball group discussion. Pitcher in the wind up, with no one on base, begins his motion and then stops. The OP's game was being played under OBR and the umpire awarded a ball to the batter for an illegal pitch. I said the umpire was mistaken in his game and that under OBR that it was just a reset and that only quick pitches and delivering the ball while facing the batter were illegal pitches. Of course this set off a stream of misinformation from unqualified commenters.
 
Just making sure I'm getting this right. Pitcher stops motion with no one on under OBR and NCAA codes we just reset since no pitch was actually delivered. Under NFHS all pitching infractions become illegal pitches with no one on and a ball would be awarded to the batter. Correct?

Please don't penalize or award a ball in any code unless the pitcher decides to delay the game for more than 20 seconds...20 ... LOOONNGGGG.... Seconds.



If your game has a pitch clock, go by that. Other than that, just reset and play baseball.

[MadMax]

@Rich Ives is right-on. It is nothing.

With the bases empty, if F1 stops his motion because he has a bad grip, or he notices at the last moment that the batter isn't ready, or his F2 isn't looking or isn't ready, you've likely dodged a small catastrophe. Say he drops the ball, and it never crosses the foul line (thus becoming a pitch)... it's still nothing.

 

[JSam21]

Just to be clear I was on the That's Nothing side... the minority side unfortunately 

[Jimurray]

13 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

Just to be clear I was on the That's Nothing side... the minority side unfortunately 

Facebook is not where you should discuss baseball rules or ........

[scrounge]

I'm not saying that FB is the sole province of 35-50 yr old housewives, but.....

In any case, perhaps these learned social media scholars would like to ponder the following:

6.1.2 SITUATION A:

With no runners on base, F1 starts his windup or preliminary motion and the ball slips from his hand.

RULING: There is no infraction provided F1 delivers a pitch within 20 seconds after he received the ball. If F1 fails to do so, the batter is awarded a ball. If there had been a runner or runners on base, dropping the ball while in contact with the pitcher’s plate is a balk if the ball did not cross the foul line. Each base runner shall be awarded one base.

 

[JSam21]

11 hours ago, scrounge said:

I'm not saying that FB is the sole province of 35-50 yr old housewives, but.....

In any case, perhaps these learned social media scholars would like to ponder the following:

6.1.2 SITUATION A:

With no runners on base, F1 starts his windup or preliminary motion and the ball slips from his hand.

RULING: There is no infraction provided F1 delivers a pitch within 20 seconds after he received the ball. If F1 fails to do so, the batter is awarded a ball. If there had been a runner or runners on base, dropping the ball while in contact with the pitcher’s plate is a balk if the ball did not cross the foul line. Each base runner shall be awarded one base.

 

Also brought this up... again got a "Well that's different". Sometimes I feel like it would be more productive to bang my head against a wall. I should also state that this is in a coaches group that I do a weekly Q&A on to try to help educate coaches on rules and situations that they may have encountered in the past. The myths are still alive and well on both sides to say the least.

[scrounge]

3 hours ago, JSam21 said:

Also brought this up... again got a "Well that's different". Sometimes I feel like it would be more productive to bang my head against a wall. I should also state that this is in a coaches group that I do a weekly Q&A on to try to help educate coaches on rules and situations that they may have encountered in the past. The myths are still alive and well on both sides to say the least.

a COACHES group!?!?

[JSam21]

2 hours ago, scrounge said:

a COACHES group!?!?

I started umpiring when I was 18... In my mid 20s I became a coach... in my mid 30s I got back into umpiring. I was the voice of reason in our dugout and the rules guy.

[Senor Azul]

From the 2013 Wendelstedt Rules and Interpretations Manual (section 6.1.3, p. 95): “After assuming either the Wind-Up or Set Position, any motion naturally and discernibly associated with his delivery commits him to deliver his pitch. If the pitcher stops his pitching motion in either position with no runners on base, there is no penalty. The pitcher and batter will start over from scratch.”

Case Play P567 (p. 272 WRIM):  No one on, one out, 1-2 count. The pitcher, from the Wind-Up Position, starts his motion, but stops halfway through. He then re-engages the rubber and begins to take signs again. Ruling:  With no runners on base, there is no violation.

[BT_Blue]

On 4/3/2017 at 5:09 PM, Jimurray said:

Facebook is not where you should discuss baseball rules or ........

I have constantly banged my head against the wall in those groups. Unless proved otherwise. I take everything from people not named Sampson, Gosney, Rios, and a few others, with a grain of salt. 

I mean, think about the conversation you are currently in, Jim, regarding the Vanderbilt play at home from a few years back. How many answers on that thread are people just talking straight out of their asses!

[TChildsUMP]

Just because something looks weird or awkward doesn’t make it anything! Don’t be the type that has to insert yourself into the game when it’s not needed. 

[Jimurray]

13 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

I have constantly banged my head against the wall in those groups. Unless proved otherwise. I take everything from people not named Sampson, Gosney, Rios, and a few others, with a grain of salt. 

I mean, think about the conversation you are currently in, Jim, regarding the Vanderbilt play at home from a few years back. How many answers on that thread are people just talking straight out of their asses!

I ignored my own advice and am regretting it. Sidetracks, non sequiturs, and some rules ignorance that might or might not get corrected because of how facebook does the replies. I thought that was a closed group but anyone and their brother can post.

[umpstu]

On 4/4/2017 at 5:01 AM, JSam21 said:

Also brought this up... again got a "Well that's different". Sometimes I feel like it would be more productive to bang my head against a wall. I should also state that this is in a coaches group that I do a weekly Q&A on to try to help educate coaches on rules and situations that they may have encountered in the past. The myths are still alive and well on both sides to say the least.

Any tie goes to the runner believers?

[POLOGREEN2]

Sorry wrong post

Edited December 30, 2018 by POLOGREEN2
wrong post

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, umpstu said:

Any tie goes to the runner believers?

I don't know about those coaches but many umpires will agree that a semantic reading of the OBR rules would indicate that a tie does go to the runner at 1B and at a forced base. OBR even changed their rule quite a few years ago to make a a forced out and a 1B out the same. https://www.closecallsports.com/2012/07/rules-605j-701-and-708e-tie-goes-to.html#disqus_thread

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

I don't know about those coaches but many umpires will agree that a semantic reading of the OBR rules would indicate that a tie does go to the runner at 1B and at a forced base. OBR even changed their rule quite a few years ago to make a a forced out and a 1B out the same. https://www.closecallsports.com/2012/07/rules-605j-701-and-708e-tie-goes-to.html#disqus_thread

This coach agrees. 

 

[JSam21]

18 hours ago, umpstu said:

Any tie goes to the runner believers?

Way too many hands are part of the bat guys... some like to add the cavate of "Only when they swing"...

[stl_ump]

... and if he does deliver the ball after stopping? Then what?  A no pitch?  An automatic ball? Play on? ;-)

Thanks

 

[JSam21]

47 minutes ago, stl_ump said:

... and if he does deliver the ball after stopping? Then what?  A no pitch?  An automatic ball? Play on? ;-)

Thanks

 

It is a balk... as soon as he stops his motion. So with OBR we let it play out in Fed we kill it. 

[stl_ump]

21 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

It is a balk... as soon as he stops his motion. So with OBR we let it play out in Fed we kill it. 

A balk?

No one is on.

[JSam21]

20 minutes ago, stl_ump said:

A balk?

No one is on.

This thread is so old I forgot what the hell it was about... It would be an illegal pitch.

[MadMax]

20 hours ago, JSam21 said:

This thread is so old I forgot what the hell it was about...

And it’s so old, you’ve since “grown up” and added a second P! Bravo!

Señor Azul must be suuuuuuper bored, rolling around the site and posting citations on otherwise-cob-webbed threads.

[dumbdumb]

On 12/30/2018 at 4:11 PM, Jimurray said:

I don't know about those coaches but many umpires will agree that a semantic reading of the OBR rules would indicate that a tie does go to the runner at 1B and at a forced base. OBR even changed their rule quite a few years ago to make a a forced out and a 1B out the same. https://www.closecallsports.com/2012/07/rules-605j-701-and-708e-tie-goes-to.html#disqus_thread

Isn't a tie something that is worn with a suit?

Since there have only been 12 ties/dead heats in American Horse Racing History, it would be analytically safe to assume that when one has that situation in baseball, the call should be to raise that right hand for the out and say that is not a tie and get all but 12 of the gazillion calls correct, rather than be sorry for spreading the arms apart for the safe call and saying that the play is a tie and getting only 12 calls out of a gazillion correct.

As to the OP, I can offer no words of wisdom or statistical analysis.