Frustrated Coach

[VolUmp]

R1 & R2.  No outs.  F1 starts his motion from the set right as batter tries to ask for time.  I don't grant it.  Pitch comes in, batter swings, and hits the catcher's mitt hard.  I signal CI and point at F2.  Ball is put in play, but the batter jogs toward 1B as he's thrown out.  Everyone advanced, I keep batter at 1B.  F2 is attended to by trainer.  Kid was hurting.  After several minutes, Defensive Coach walks up to me and says,

Coach:  "What did you signal on that play?"

Me:  "Catcher's INT."

Coach:  "They said you were standing there with your hands up giving the batter time."

Me:  "I don't know who 'they' are, but I absolutely didn't give him time ... your F1 was already in motion."

Coach:  "So what you're saying is, you should have given the batter time — then this wouldn't have happened."

 

Civil Officials, please advise me word for word what a PU should say next, then I'll go with whatever Maven says.

[catsbackr]

Me:  "Coach, we're done here, go back to your dugout."

[noumpere]

"That's not what I said.  Don't put words in my mouth."

 

"you know I was right not to grant time."

[maven]

6 hours ago, VolUmp said:

Civil Officials, please advise me word for word what a PU should say next, then I'll go with whatever Maven says.

Ha, almost missed that part.

Although I'm grateful for the props, we should all understand that learning game management has little to do with finding out what works for other people, and everything to do with discovering what works for us individually. That takes time and, unfortunately, a lot of mistakes.

catsbackr's suggestion is standard and customary, and a version of nipping it in the bud. I personally have never told a coach to "go back to your dugout," which feels overly confrontational to me. Volump's coach is spouting some quality douchebaggery, but doesn't seem (in print anyway) to be confrontational. I tend to use "let's play ball" instead, with it's implied collaboration in something bigger and more important than our immediate conversation.

I might make a face at the douchebaggery, and then ask, "Coach, do you have an actual question?" Since he doesn't, he should be motivated to wrap it up and leave. Otherwise, I'll do it.

[KenBAZ]

Unlike Maven I have told a few coaches to "go back to the dugout". It has never been well received. As Maven says learning game management takes a lot of mistakes. You just don't have to make them all yourself like me.

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[scrounge]

I'm not so sure how civil I could be if a coach is outright trying to blame me for an injury like this, but I know it wouldn't be a long conversation. That line alone tells me it's not really a conversation, but a 4 yr old trying to find someone to blame. I think the most civil would be "No, coach, that's not at all what I'm saying" and if he persisted, "Take care of your kid, coach, we're done here" and begin walking away. If he follows...he knows what he's doing and what comes next.

[Cav]

Me: Hey, look, Skip, there's a couple pennies on the ground by your feet.  Imagine...getting someone's two-cents at a ballpark.  What are the chances, Skip?      

[VolUmp]

On 3/26/2017 at 8:02 AM, noumpere said:

"That's not what I said.  Don't put words in my mouth ... you know I was right not to grant time."

 

On 3/26/2017 at 10:03 AM, scrounge said:

"No, coach, that's not at all what I'm saying."  "Take care of your kid, coach."

These two answers pretty well covered how I handled it, except that I was trying to press the issue that if I had indeed granted time, he'd have a strong and valid argument that I granted it too late and took a potential strike or an out away from him.

This coach walked away before I got two words out ... toward the trainer and player ... not in compliance, but in defiance.  He put words in my mouth, and then wouldn't listen to me for my response/explanation.

The early consensus here in my association is that I should have restricted him to the dugout.  Something like this ...

"Coach, if you're going to put words in my mouth and then show so much disrespect as to walk away before I can rebut it and explain myself (which shouldn't have been necessary), then you don't have the privilege of being on the field.  This is your written warning, and you are restricted to the dugout for the remainder of the game."

[kstrunk]

While I certainly understand the temptation, I wouldn't advise following after or saying anything to a coach who is walking away. If he said something eject-able prior to walking away, by all means, take care of business, but otherwise, let him go. 

If he says something like that and doesn't walk away, something to the effect of - "Let's be done with this one and play ball", and then go back to business. If he doesn't leave, warn him, then.... syanara. 

[lawump]

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 2:59 AM, VolUmp said:

R1 & R2.  No outs.  F1 starts his motion from the set right as batter tries to ask for time.  I don't grant it.  Pitch comes in, batter swings, and hits the catcher's mitt hard.  I signal CI and point at F2.  Ball is put in play, but the batter jogs toward 1B as he's thrown out.  Everyone advanced, I keep batter at 1B.  F2 is attended to by trainer.  Kid was hurting.  After several minutes, Defensive Coach walks up to me and says,

Coach:  "What did you signal on that play?"

Me:  "Catcher's INT."

Coach:  "They said you were standing there with your hands up giving the batter time."

Me:  "I don't know who 'they' are, but I absolutely didn't give him time ... your F1 was already in motion."

Coach:  "So what you're saying is, you should have given the batter time — then this wouldn't have happened."

 

Civil Officials, please advise me word for word what a PU should say next, then I'll go with whatever Maven says.

I have mellowed...a lot...since my pro days when my colleagues called me "Mr. Red a$$".  But, I might have been really, really tempted to reply with, "no, what I'm saying is if your catcher had been properly coached on how to receive a pitch he might not have gotten hurt."

Yes, this would absolutely throw a lighted match on a can of gasoline...but I might enjoy dealing with such douchebaggery by blowing the whole thing up.

[VolUmp]

I don't think a coach is allowed to be a douche bag and receive a "get out of jail card" just by walking away.

For the 1000th time ... the ballfield is an extension of the classroom ...

[Replacematt]

22 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

I don't think a coach is allowed to be a douche bag and receive a "get out of jail card" just by walking away.

For the 1000th time ... the ballfield is an extension of the classroom ...

Depends. Sometimes the better solution is to punish, other times it's to ignore.

[LRZ]

3 hours ago, VolUmp said:

"Coach, if you're going to put words in my mouth and then show so much disrespect as to walk away before I can rebut it and explain myself (which shouldn't have been necessary), then you don't have the privilege of being on the field.  This is your written warning, and you are restricted to the dugout for the remainder of the game."

Too wordy. The last sentence, by itself, would suffice.

[Stan W.]

No Coach, I made 2 separate calls that were totally unrelated.....lets play...    

[beerguy55]

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

[grayhawk]

I don't think a coach is allowed to be a douche bag and receive a "get out of jail card" just by walking away.
For the 1000th time ... the ballfield is an extension of the classroom ...

If the comment warranted ejection then eject whether he's walking away or not. The fact of the matter, in this case, is that he said something that wasn't ejection-worthy (or even restriction-worthy, IMO) but was then doing what you wanted him to do. Don't stop him.

You certainly had the option of giving a verbal warning, or written warning with restriction, but I wouldn't have. To each his own.

[HokieUmp]

7 hours ago, lawump said:

Yes, this would absolutely throw a lighted match on a can of gasoline...but I might enjoy dealing with such douchebaggery by blowing the whole thing up.

Some men just want to watch the world burn.....

[noumpere]

17 hours ago, lawump said:

I have mellowed...a lot...since my pro days when my colleagues called me "Mr. Red a$$".  But, I might have been really, really tempted to reply with, "no, what I'm saying is if your catcher had been properly coached on how to receive a pitch he might not have gotten hurt."

Yes, this would absolutely throw a lighted match on a can of gasoline...but I might enjoy dealing with such douchebaggery by blowing the whole thing up.

ME:  I'm surprised.

Coach: At what?

Me:  Well, a good coach would be out here tending to his player and not arguing a correct call.  Maybe I'm not really that surprised.

[kstrunk]

18 hours ago, VolUmp said:

I don't think a coach is allowed to be a douche bag and receive a "get out of jail card" just by walking away.

For the 1000th time ... the ballfield is an extension of the classroom ...

While I agree with you in the spirit of your argument, I'm learning more and more myself that I should focus on what my job is, and what it isn't. I'm not there to train the coach to be a coach, or coach the players to play the game. While our job does, in part, do some of both, we're really there to enforce the rules and manage the game between 2 teams. So as I said previously, and as @grayhawk seemed to agree, eject the guy if he deserves to be ejected, but short of that, manage the game without perpetuating a problem, because ultimately, in his agitated state, it isn't likely you're going to win him to you're way of thinking anyway, and like we comment so often regarding certain MLB brothers who seem to bring heat upon themselves, you'll end up doing the same thing. We're the umpires, so we're already under the microscope, and we cost ourselves credibility with inappropriate and indecisive arguing. 

[conbo61]

On 3/26/2017 at 2:59 AM, VolUmp said:

R1 & R2.  No outs.  F1 starts his motion from the set right as batter tries to ask for time.  I don't grant it.  Pitch comes in, batter swings, and hits the catcher's mitt hard.  I signal CI and point at F2.  Ball is put in play, but the batter jogs toward 1B as he's thrown out.  Everyone advanced, I keep batter at 1B.  F2 is attended to by trainer.  Kid was hurting.  After several minutes, Defensive Coach walks up to me and says,

Coach:  "What did you signal on that play?"

Me:  "Catcher's INT."

Coach:  "They said you were standing there with your hands up giving the batter time."

Me:  "I don't know who 'they' are, but I absolutely didn't give him time ... your F1 was already in motion."

Coach:  "So what you're saying is, you should have given the batter time — then this wouldn't have happened."

 

Civil Officials, please advise me word for word what a PU should say next, then I'll go with whatever Maven says.

Looking him straight in the eyes "Is there a question here? No? Let's play ball." His next words better be VERY carefully chosen.

I take it personally if a coach questions my actions as it may pertain to player injury.  

[jonathantullos]

"Coach, I'm not taking the blame for your catcher getting hurt. Further, you are not going to put words in my mouth. This is your written warning. After you attend to your player, I do not want to see you on this field again tonight." And if he continues, his presence will no longer be required at all. Sorry, not sorry, but I wouldn't take too kindly to a coach passive-aggressively even suggesting that I had something to do with his player being hurt.

[VolUmp]

3 hours ago, jonathantullos said:

"Coach, I'm not taking the blame for your catcher getting hurt. Further, you are not going to put words in my mouth. This is your written warning. After you attend to your player, I do not want to see you on this field again tonight." And if he continues, his presence will no longer be required at all. Sorry, not sorry, but I wouldn't take too kindly to a coach passive-aggressively even suggesting that I had something to do with his player being hurt.

Ya know, I think this is the one for me and my personality and my limits and my "line in the sand."  Thanks, Jonathantullos.

[basejester]

We don't need to win arguments.  If he's done being stupid, move along.