Advice

[philaump]

I've been a HS umpire since 2005.

Back in 2012, I was doing a 9th grade game involving 2 schools from different leagues.

In the second inning (2-1 score at the time), there was a play at first, where I called the kid out. The ball came out as he was throwing the ball back to the pitcher. Coach argues, then says the call was BS (in front of HT bench). I eject him.

After the game (ejected coach's team lost 16-1), he said "that was an embarrassment" to which I reply "the only embarrassment today was your conduct".

Fast forward to last season. I finished a game, and was watching a game in which his team was coaching. He starts antagonizing me (I'm not umpiring this game).

He and school ad (now retired) filed a complaint back in May to my states governing body, accusing me of social media violation (in a post where there was no mention of the guy's name, and all that I said was true). He never filed the complaint until he got the varsity job.

No disciplinary action was taken against me. I have requested not to umpire contests involving the school.

You guys think I was out of line? Was this coach just holding a grudge?

[Thunderheads]

I've been a HS umpire since 2005.

Back in 2012, I was doing a 9th grade game involving 2 schools from different leagues.

In the second inning (2-1 score at the time), there was a play at first, where I called the kid out. The ball came out as he was throwing the ball back to the pitcher. Coach argues, then says the call was BS (in front of HT bench). I eject him.

After the game (ejected coach's team lost 16-1), he said "that was an embarrassment" to which I reply "the only embarrassment today was your conduct".

Fast forward to last season. I finished a game, and was watching a game in which his team was coaching. He starts antagonizing me (I'm not umpiring this game).

He and school ad (now retired) filed a complaint back in May to my states governing body, accusing me of social media violation (in a post where there was no mention of the guy's name, and all that I said was true). He never filed the complaint until he got the varsity job.

No disciplinary action was taken against me. I have requested not to umpire contests involving the school.

You guys think I was out of line? Was this coach just holding a grudge?

Regardless of whether the coach was speaking directly to you or not, ....... your comment wasn't warranted, and is probably what did the trick.

 

Whatever you did "social media" probably fueled his fire.

[grayhawk]

Did he say "BS" or the full word?  If it's the full word and it's loud enough for others to hear, then I have no problem with the ejection at the HS level.  This is clearly a violation of 3-3-1(g1).  Although, our association would definitely prefer that he be restricted to the dugout rather than immediate ejection.

 

Just saying a call is "BS" would generally not warrant and ejection for me, unless I felt he was inciting others into the fray.  It's okay for coaches to say a "call" is BS, just not that "you" are BS.

 

As far as the after game comment - DO NOT get into it with him AT ALL.  The only response you should give is, "Coach, I will not speak with you, and will be forced to report this to the state if you do not walk away immediately."

 

Where did you post something in May?  Can't comment on that unless I know more.

[maven]

Regarding your two questions: I'd answer "probably" to both. But the real question is what you might have done differently, and what you can take away from the experience, knowing what eventuated.

 

One suggestion: I know that some coaches go from zero to insane in a heartbeat, and there's not much anyone can do to keep them in the game when that happens. But this guy had a different view of the play from what you had: you can sometimes defuse a situation by just letting him have his say.

 

You mention that the "coach argues," but don't say much about how that went. From what I've seen, these conversations are where things usually go south. The trick is to let him have his say: he saw it differently from you, which is fine. The rule here is not complicated: the fielder needs to have secure possession of the ball throughout the tag, so in reporting my judgment to the coach, I'd use that language. "Coach, in my judgment, the fielder maintained secure possession of the ball throughout the tag."

 

At this point, he will either want to discuss the rule or your judgment (or both). The rule is the rule (you can show him if you want, or just insist and let him protest). But don't argue about judgment: "Coach, I understand you had a different view of the play, but we have to go with my judgment on this."

 

Rational coaches will simmer down at this point: they've said their piece, they've been heard, and they've got an explanation of the call. They can still disagree AND THAT'S OK. Some umpires won't let it go and can't stop arguing, but don't make that mistake. You've made your ruling (rule + judgment), and there's nothing more to be said.

 

Some coaches will continue to grouse. Try not to hear it unless it's directed at you or so loud you can't ignore it. Then a simple, "that's enough" is all you need. Once the game is over, it's over: don't continue the interaction in any other context. If coach still thinks you missed it, so be it. If he thinks you're terrible, so be it. Let it go.

 

Just my advice.

[philaump]

1. He said the whole word. in front of home team dugout. Other coach heard him.

2. He waited 2 years. The comment has been deleted, over a year and a half ago. It was about a local school finding a new hoops coach.

I said it was a judgment call (force play at first).

[JaxRolo]

Never ever talk to coaches after a game! Nothing good will come out of it.

[ALStripes17]

1. He said the whole word. in front of home team dugout. Other coach heard him.

2. He waited 2 years. The comment has been deleted, over a year and a half ago. It was about a local school finding a new hoops coach.

I said it was a judgment call (force play at first).

Agree with all said here already.

Sidenote: By strict def'n, there can never be a force at 1B.

1. He said the whole word. in front of home team dugout. Other coach heard him.

2. He waited 2 years. The comment has been deleted, over a year and a half ago. It was about a local school finding a new hoops coach.

I said it was a judgment call (force play at first).

Agree with all said here already. Silence can't be misquoted.

Sidenote: By strict def'n, there can never be a force at 1B - but we know what you mean ;)

[philaump]

Thanks. I did record his antagonizing as well. I sent it to my state governing body of hs sports

[blue23ll]

I echo all the advice given here. In most cases, silence is golden. One of the worst habits some umpires develop is the need to have the last word. Nothing ever good comes from that. 

[conbo61]

"eventuated"?

Just remember, anything you say can and will be held against you. As others have noted, say nothing and you can't get bit in the butt.

[spiritump]

you can never be misquoted or taken out of context if you do not say anything. Why did you take to social media and say anything about what goes happens on the field.

[philaump]

My media post had nothing to do with the ejection, but if a school found a hoops coach

[spiritump]

Phila-it has been a saying for years--they are all RATS--and they will bite  you when they can--they are not your friends--they do not like you--you are a official --never mix with the coaches or administration-- you have nothing to gain by it.

[ricka56]

He and school ad (now retired) filed a complaint back in May to my states governing body, accusing me of social media violation (in a post where there was no mention of the guy's name, and all that I said was true). He never filed the complaint until he got the varsity job.

My media post had nothing to do with the ejection, but if a school found a hoops coach

 

This doesn't add up. You seem to suggest that you made an innocent social media post about an unrelated topic and others completely misconstrued your words. I'll bet the two people (coach and AD) who filed the complaint have a different take. If you couldn't control your post game shot at the coach, perhaps there have been other words you couldn't control or remember.

 

Haven't there been enough favously embarrassing twitter post to give any reasonable person pause from ever posting one. But people feel the need to vent in such public places. You make your bed...you have to lie in it. 

[philaump]

The fact of the matter is this- the state governing body took no action against me; citing the fact that I never used the guy's name, said no falsehoods. Plus the fact that they waited almost a year to file a complaint, hurt them.

I have become aware he may have gotten a couple games, due to his conduct towards me.

Looking back on it- I should not have replied to his comment after ejecting him.

[Replacematt]

The fact of the matter is this- the state governing body took no action against me; citing the fact that I never used the guy's name, said no falsehoods. Plus the fact that they waited almost a year to file a complaint, hurt them.

I have become aware he may have gotten a couple games, due to his conduct towards me.

Looking back on it- I should not have replied to his comment after ejecting him.

Why would you post anything about the current events in sports at any school you work? Outside of rare things like sending well-wishes to severely injured or ill personnel, never post anything about any entity where you work.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

Post-game talks with coaches rarely do anything but cause harm, especially if there has been controversy.

Game over, you're gone.

Others have said it, but it bears repeating "you can't be misquoted if you say nothing."

 

On a related note...if coach was ejected WTF was he still doing close enough to the field where he could confront you after the game?

[philaump]

It was after the game. He went back to the bus

[Stan W.]

My Rule one......I use social media to talk general umpiring with mainly umpires...........questions/advice/encouragement etc

 

My Rule two.......I would never mention specific schools, coaches or particular games.

[JaxRolo]

My Rule one......I use social media to talk general umpiring with mainly umpires...........questions/advice/encouragement etc

My Rule two.......I would never mention specific schools, coaches or particular games.

Good post. Never mention names or schools. Nothing good will come off it

[blue23ll]

 

My Rule one......I use social media to talk general umpiring with mainly umpires...........questions/advice/encouragement etc

My Rule two.......I would never mention specific schools, coaches or particular games.

Good post. Never mention names or schools. Nothing good will come off it

 

I do go onto FB now, for the umpire forums, but I have never mentioned any particular schools, teams or coaches. I don't tweeter, or anything like that, but I suspect it could become an issue if you actually call someone out on it. Best bet, avoid social media like housework!!

[JaxRolo]

https://m.facebook.com/groups/549798191784118?ref=bookmark

[KenBAZ]

Heard a story last weekend that one of my assigners caught a guy on FB from his phone during a game.

[JaxRolo]

Heard a story last weekend that one of my assigners caught a guy on FB from his phone during a game.

Should be ok if it was between innings and had his back turned.

:wave:

[Richvee]

 

Heard a story last weekend that one of my assigners caught a guy on FB from his phone during a game.

Should be ok if it was between innings and had his back turned.

 

This would be funny if I didn't witness it from partners multiple times this summer.