What Do You Want To Know?

[Jimurray]

 

PU: "Ball"

F2 forgets the sitch and starts to throw to 2B.

PU: "BALL 4 !!!" loud, before he releases the throw. Scare F2 out of throwing the ball (so I'm helping the guy who keeps pitches off of me, sue me). If F2 still releases the throw, BU should have heard your loud BALL 4 (if you really said it loud enough, it'll scare BU out of calling R1/R2 out. .

 

As the MLB video shows, this is not a TWP.

 

Why not just say "Ball 4" to begin with? 

 

And the 3rd world play I was talking about is a ball 4 or check swing strike situation, not your average run of the mill ball 4 situation.

 

That TWP has happened in MLB:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/umpires/camp/feature.jsp?feature=call6

 

and the video if you can't link from it in Lepperd's You Make The Call:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/player/mp_tpl_3_1.jsp?w=/library/open/ymtc/2007_umpires_ymtc_2_350.wmv&pid=gen_video&cid=mlb&v=2

[Jimurray]

I agree, most always we should know if it was a ball 4 or strike 2 before we turn with the ball to make the call on R1. My question was the rare times we either miss PU's call, (or PU just isn't quick or loud) or, as @Jimurray points out, a check swing that's called ball 4 by PU, but an appeal is possible.

Now,after watching the videos I found, I think I would lean toward asking the PU if I knew it was a ball four sit but couldn't determine what my plate had. It's almost the same as the PBUC ball four check swing sit.

If you don't know the count then your gonna look like Danley anyway. If you know the count and don't have a pitch determination yet I would rather look like the umpire in Lepperds video. "Stay here" and get the info you need.

I'm not gonna say "Stay here dude" though.

[UmpJeff]

BU should know whether the pitch was a ball or a strike before turning towards second base for a play on R1 stealing on a 3-ball count!

[MidAmUmp]

This pertains somewhat to the current discussion of a check swing/ball 4, but it really pertains to umpiring in general and it is probably going to make some of you mad, but I don't really care. If you truly want to better yourself you have to face some facts, sometimes the truth hurts and reality is a bitch. So here it goes...

 

Those of you who have seen the NCAA videos recently hopefully have seen the interview with Steve Mattingly. Those of you who haven't, look it up on YouTube, it's out there. That 2 minute interview may be the most important information out there for umpires. Better than the Evans balk video or anything else on the market.

 

What he says is you must know 4 things at all times...

1. The status of the ball.

2. The status of the fielder.

3. The status of the runner, but let's just say offense because sometimes it's the status of the batter.

4. The status of the other umpire(s).

 

A lot of us do not understand or recognize these priorities. We can spot a Ridell chest protector from across the living room, but put us on a field and we have blinders on our eyes and ear plugs in our ears. We don't see anything that doesn't happen right in front of our face and we don't hear anything. We don't see batters flip bats and pimp a HR. We don't see a coach waiving his arm rounding a runner home. We don't see how outfielders are positioning themselves pre-pitch to assist in our P/P/R. We don't hear a SS and 2nd baseman discuss who's taking a throw on a steal. We don't hear a dugout popping off. We don't hear a 1st base coach yelling instructions to a B/R as he rounds 1st on an extra base hit to know if he's stopping at 1st, 2nd or looking at a triple. I could go on and on. Either we don't see/hear things, or we just don't react to them at the proper time.

 

An example of these priorities is the interview with Dan Iassogna from "The 3rd Team" about his play at the plate with Fielder. (Paraphrasing) He says he picks up Fielder as he's rounding 2nd and he likes to stay on Posey's hip because he'll take him to the play. To break this down - he knew 180 feet away the status of the runner (he was going to try to score), he knew the status of the ball (it was going to be thrown home), and he knew the status of the fielder (the catcher was setting up for a play).

 

You can find numerous examples on YouTube of umpires who don't recognize a play until it's right on top of them. How many videos are out there of contact at the plate where a runner is ejected for running into a catcher who's moved to catch a bad throw? The majority of them show an umpire out of position because he didn't know the status of the runner, fielder and ball until it was too late. They didn't read any cues and made no adjustments, they just immediately went to a spot and guessed...and did that badly.

 

What am I getting at?

Specifically on the steal/check swing/ball 4/throw to 2nd -

The status of the batter - Did the batter swing or not? You should be deciding this in your mind even if you're not asked.

The status of the other umpire - Did he call the pitch a ball or strike? You should AT LEAST be thinking in your mind that you would have called the pitch a ball or strike

The status of the fielder - Is the catcher throwing to 2nd? If he is you should start to open the gate and read the status of the ball.

The status of the ball - Is it a true/good throw? You should not be turning to 2nd base until you know it's a good throw and the ball is about to pass you in the air.

 

If you prioritize those things in that order, and use your ears as much as your eyes, this confusing situation won't happen very often.

[Jimurray]

This pertains somewhat to the current discussion of a check swing/ball 4, but it really pertains to umpiring in general and it is probably going to make some of you mad, but I don't really care. If you truly want to better yourself you have to face some facts, sometimes the truth hurts and reality is a bitch. So here it goes...

 

Those of you who have seen the NCAA videos recently hopefully have seen the interview with Steve Mattingly. Those of you who haven't, look it up on YouTube, it's out there. That 2 minute interview may be the most important information out there for umpires. Better than the Evans balk video or anything else on the market.

 

What he says is you must know 4 things at all times...

1. The status of the ball.

2. The status of the fielder.

3. The status of the runner, but let's just say offense because sometimes it's the status of the batter.

4. The status of the other umpire(s).

 

A lot of us do not understand or recognize these priorities. We can spot a Ridell chest protector from across the living room, but put us on a field and we have blinders on our eyes and ear plugs in our ears. We don't see anything that doesn't happen right in front of our face and we don't hear anything. We don't see batters flip bats and pimp a HR. We don't see a coach waiving his arm rounding a runner home. We don't see how outfielders are positioning themselves pre-pitch to assist in our P/P/R. We don't hear a SS and 2nd baseman discuss who's taking a throw on a steal. We don't hear a dugout popping off. We don't hear a 1st base coach yelling instructions to a B/R as he rounds 1st on an extra base hit to know if he's stopping at 1st, 2nd or looking at a triple. I could go on and on. Either we don't see/hear things, or we just don't react to them at the proper time.

 

An example of these priorities is the interview with Dan Iassogna from "The 3rd Team" about his play at the plate with Fielder. (Paraphrasing) He says he picks up Fielder as he's rounding 2nd and he likes to stay on Posey's hip because he'll take him to the play. To break this down - he knew 180 feet away the status of the runner (he was going to try to score), he knew the status of the ball (it was going to be thrown home), and he knew the status of the fielder (the catcher was setting up for a play).

 

You can find numerous examples on YouTube of umpires who don't recognize a play until it's right on top of them. How many videos are out there of contact at the plate where a runner is ejected for running into a catcher who's moved to catch a bad throw? The majority of them show an umpire out of position because he didn't know the status of the runner, fielder and ball until it was too late. They didn't read any cues and made no adjustments, they just immediately went to a spot and guessed...and did that badly.

 

What am I getting at?

Specifically on the steal/check swing/ball 4/throw to 2nd -

The status of the batter - Did the batter swing or not? You should be deciding this in your mind even if you're not asked.

The status of the other umpire - Did he call the pitch a ball or strike? You should AT LEAST be thinking in your mind that you would have called the pitch a ball or strike

The status of the fielder - Is the catcher throwing to 2nd? If he is you should start to open the gate and read the status of the ball.

The status of the ball - Is it a true/good throw? You should not be turning to 2nd base until you know it's a good throw and the ball is about to pass you in the air.

 

If you prioritize those things in that order, and use your ears as much as your eyes, this confusing situation won't happen very often.

But when it does, what mechanic do you advocate?

Check swing, ball four R1 stealing and clearly tagged out.

2 man. You are gonna have no swing if your partner asks or has to ask. Do you say "That's ball four" or do you give a safe signal?

2 man. You are gonna pick up the dirty end and call a swing if asked. Let's not go there.

More than 2 man and check swing call is not yours. Is the Leppard advice and video appropriate?

[MidAmUmp]

 

This pertains somewhat to the current discussion of a check swing/ball 4, but it really pertains to umpiring in general and it is probably going to make some of you mad, but I don't really care. If you truly want to better yourself you have to face some facts, sometimes the truth hurts and reality is a bitch. So here it goes...

 

Those of you who have seen the NCAA videos recently hopefully have seen the interview with Steve Mattingly. Those of you who haven't, look it up on YouTube, it's out there. That 2 minute interview may be the most important information out there for umpires. Better than the Evans balk video or anything else on the market.

 

What he says is you must know 4 things at all times...

1. The status of the ball.

2. The status of the fielder.

3. The status of the runner, but let's just say offense because sometimes it's the status of the batter.

4. The status of the other umpire(s).

 

A lot of us do not understand or recognize these priorities. We can spot a Ridell chest protector from across the living room, but put us on a field and we have blinders on our eyes and ear plugs in our ears. We don't see anything that doesn't happen right in front of our face and we don't hear anything. We don't see batters flip bats and pimp a HR. We don't see a coach waiving his arm rounding a runner home. We don't see how outfielders are positioning themselves pre-pitch to assist in our P/P/R. We don't hear a SS and 2nd baseman discuss who's taking a throw on a steal. We don't hear a dugout popping off. We don't hear a 1st base coach yelling instructions to a B/R as he rounds 1st on an extra base hit to know if he's stopping at 1st, 2nd or looking at a triple. I could go on and on. Either we don't see/hear things, or we just don't react to them at the proper time.

 

An example of these priorities is the interview with Dan Iassogna from "The 3rd Team" about his play at the plate with Fielder. (Paraphrasing) He says he picks up Fielder as he's rounding 2nd and he likes to stay on Posey's hip because he'll take him to the play. To break this down - he knew 180 feet away the status of the runner (he was going to try to score), he knew the status of the ball (it was going to be thrown home), and he knew the status of the fielder (the catcher was setting up for a play).

 

You can find numerous examples on YouTube of umpires who don't recognize a play until it's right on top of them. How many videos are out there of contact at the plate where a runner is ejected for running into a catcher who's moved to catch a bad throw? The majority of them show an umpire out of position because he didn't know the status of the runner, fielder and ball until it was too late. They didn't read any cues and made no adjustments, they just immediately went to a spot and guessed...and did that badly.

 

What am I getting at?

Specifically on the steal/check swing/ball 4/throw to 2nd -

The status of the batter - Did the batter swing or not? You should be deciding this in your mind even if you're not asked.

The status of the other umpire - Did he call the pitch a ball or strike? You should AT LEAST be thinking in your mind that you would have called the pitch a ball or strike

The status of the fielder - Is the catcher throwing to 2nd? If he is you should start to open the gate and read the status of the ball.

The status of the ball - Is it a true/good throw? You should not be turning to 2nd base until you know it's a good throw and the ball is about to pass you in the air.

 

If you prioritize those things in that order, and use your ears as much as your eyes, this confusing situation won't happen very often.

But when it does, what mechanic do you advocate?

Check swing, ball four R1 stealing and clearly tagged out.

2 man. You are gonna have no swing if your partner asks or has to ask. Do you say "That's ball four" or do you give a safe signal?

2 man. You are gonna pick up the dirty end and call a swing if asked. Let's not go there.

More than 2 man and check swing call is not yours. Is the Leppard advice and video appropriate?

 

 

Already been answered...go back and re-read a couple pages ago.

[Haid D' Salaami]

For you guys who dont work at the level that Midamump does this last post will help you a ton.. read it, and re read it again so it can sink in.. This is the other part of umpiring that most guys dont get and until they learn it will not advance.. yeah you might get more games, but you will not advance as a umpire... it's just not about balls and strikes.. it's situation awareness.

[grayhawk]

I think working solo is one of the best ways to help your situational awareness. So much going on and you have to correctly read the play to get into the best position.

If you get tunnel vision working solo, you are going to miss way too much.

[maven]

Jason, if you can find that Mattingly interview, maybe post a link? I searched YouTube for ' "steve mattingly" interview' and the top hit was a video alarmingly entitled, "Making sex normal," and second was something on satanism.

[johnnyg08]

[JaxRolo]

This pertains somewhat to the current discussion of a check swing/ball 4, but it really pertains to umpiring in general and it is probably going to make some of you mad, but I don't really care. If you truly want to better yourself you have to face some facts, sometimes the truth hurts and reality is a bitch. So here it goes...

Those of you who have seen the NCAA videos recently hopefully have seen the interview with Steve Mattingly. Those of you who haven't, look it up on YouTube, it's out there. That 2 minute interview may be the most important information out there for umpires. Better than the Evans balk video or anything else on the market.

What he says is you must know 4 things at all times...

1. The status of the ball.

2. The status of the fielder.

3. The status of the runner, but let's just say offense because sometimes it's the status of the batter.

4. The status of the other umpire(s).

A lot of us do not understand or recognize these priorities. We can spot a Ridell chest protector from across the living room, but put us on a field and we have blinders on our eyes and ear plugs in our ears. We don't see anything that doesn't happen right in front of our face and we don't hear anything. We don't see batters flip bats and pimp a HR. We don't see a coach waiving his arm rounding a runner home. We don't see how outfielders are positioning themselves pre-pitch to assist in our P/P/R. We don't hear a SS and 2nd baseman discuss who's taking a throw on a steal. We don't hear a dugout popping off. We don't hear a 1st base coach yelling instructions to a B/R as he rounds 1st on an extra base hit to know if he's stopping at 1st, 2nd or looking at a triple. I could go on and on. Either we don't see/hear things, or we just don't react to them at the proper time.

An example of these priorities is the interview with Dan Iassogna from "The 3rd Team" about his play at the plate with Fielder. (Paraphrasing) He says he picks up Fielder as he's rounding 2nd and he likes to stay on Posey's hip because he'll take him to the play. To break this down - he knew 180 feet away the status of the runner (he was going to try to score), he knew the status of the ball (it was going to be thrown home), and he knew the status of the fielder (the catcher was setting up for a play).

You can find numerous examples on YouTube of umpires who don't recognize a play until it's right on top of them. How many videos are out there of contact at the plate where a runner is ejected for running into a catcher who's moved to catch a bad throw? The majority of them show an umpire out of position because he didn't know the status of the runner, fielder and ball until it was too late. They didn't read any cues and made no adjustments, they just immediately went to a spot and guessed...and did that badly.

What am I getting at?

Specifically on the steal/check swing/ball 4/throw to 2nd -

The status of the batter - Did the batter swing or not? You should be deciding this in your mind even if you're not asked.

The status of the other umpire - Did he call the pitch a ball or strike? You should AT LEAST be thinking in your mind that you would have called the pitch a ball or strike

The status of the fielder - Is the catcher throwing to 2nd? If he is you should start to open the gate and read the status of the ball.

The status of the ball - Is it a true/good throw? You should not be turning to 2nd base until you know it's a good throw and the ball is about to pass you in the air.

If you prioritize those things in that order, and use your ears as much as your eyes, this confusing situation won't happen very often.

Jason- I salute you!

In all of my time on UE (and I spend a lot of time here) this has to be the best post I have read!

By this post alone I have gained a lot of new knowledge.

Thank you very much!

[GreyhoundAggie]

Now just think what you boys can learn at a clinic with Jason! It's worth the money gents. I plan on going again.

[Magic]

This pertains somewhat to the current discussion of a check swing/ball 4, but it really pertains to umpiring in general and it is probably going to make some of you mad, but I don't really care. If you truly want to better yourself you have to face some facts, sometimes the truth hurts and reality is a bitch. So here it goes...

Those of you who have seen the NCAA videos recently hopefully have seen the interview with Steve Mattingly. Those of you who haven't, look it up on YouTube, it's out there. That 2 minute interview may be the most important information out there for umpires. Better than the Evans balk video or anything else on the market.

What he says is you must know 4 things at all times...

1. The status of the ball.

2. The status of the fielder.

3. The status of the runner, but let's just say offense because sometimes it's the status of the batter.

4. The status of the other umpire(s).

A lot of us do not understand or recognize these priorities. We can spot a Ridell chest protector from across the living room, but put us on a field and we have blinders on our eyes and ear plugs in our ears. We don't see anything that doesn't happen right in front of our face and we don't hear anything. We don't see batters flip bats and pimp a HR. We don't see a coach waiving his arm rounding a runner home. We don't see how outfielders are positioning themselves pre-pitch to assist in our P/P/R. We don't hear a SS and 2nd baseman discuss who's taking a throw on a steal. We don't hear a dugout popping off. We don't hear a 1st base coach yelling instructions to a B/R as he rounds 1st on an extra base hit to know if he's stopping at 1st, 2nd or looking at a triple. I could go on and on. Either we don't see/hear things, or we just don't react to them at the proper time.

An example of these priorities is the interview with Dan Iassogna from "The 3rd Team" about his play at the plate with Fielder. (Paraphrasing) He says he picks up Fielder as he's rounding 2nd and he likes to stay on Posey's hip because he'll take him to the play. To break this down - he knew 180 feet away the status of the runner (he was going to try to score), he knew the status of the ball (it was going to be thrown home), and he knew the status of the fielder (the catcher was setting up for a play).

You can find numerous examples on YouTube of umpires who don't recognize a play until it's right on top of them. How many videos are out there of contact at the plate where a runner is ejected for running into a catcher who's moved to catch a bad throw? The majority of them show an umpire out of position because he didn't know the status of the runner, fielder and ball until it was too late. They didn't read any cues and made no adjustments, they just immediately went to a spot and guessed...and did that badly.

What am I getting at?

Specifically on the steal/check swing/ball 4/throw to 2nd -

The status of the batter - Did the batter swing or not? You should be deciding this in your mind even if you're not asked.

The status of the other umpire - Did he call the pitch a ball or strike? You should AT LEAST be thinking in your mind that you would have called the pitch a ball or strike

The status of the fielder - Is the catcher throwing to 2nd? If he is you should start to open the gate and read the status of the ball.

The status of the ball - Is it a true/good throw? You should not be turning to 2nd base until you know it's a good throw and the ball is about to pass you in the air.

If you prioritize those things in that order, and use your ears as much as your eyes, this confusing situation won't happen very often.

Fabulous! That is all that comes to mind. This is the best post I have ever read on this forum.

[TheRockawayKid]

I've always been curious as to the different rule sets and interpretations for a thrown bat, or a bat carelessly flung after contact. Are there specifics in the rule sets, and what have you done when it happens? 

[noumpere]

FED gives a warning, and then an EJ.

 

The other codes don't address it.

 

In FED, if the first "fling" doesn't hit anyone / get in the way, I try to talk to the player and / or coach without giving the official warning.  Otherwise, I enforce it as written.  It's a safety issue -- and often  the only way a kid will learn is if he gets penalized 

[johnnyg08]

I've always been curious as to the different rule sets and interpretations for a thrown bat, or a bat carelessly flung after contact. Are there specifics in the rule sets, and what have you done when it happens?

Don't go looking for this one.

[woodiemiller]

How many years of umpiring did it take you guys to break into the NCAA ranks?

Believe it or not, when I first broke in, it was easier than getting varsity high school assignments! I was umpiring college baseball BEFORE I had ever umpired a varsity high school game! But that was then & this is now. There is a BIG difference between knowing the rule according to the rule book & knowing how to enforce it. 

Biggest thing is, do NOT go looking to enforce a rule NOBODY cares about (i.e. a pitchers under sleeve might be longer on one arm than the other) unless someone brings it to your attention & then deal with it accordingly or not. Don't try & draw unnecessary attention to yourself. Be pleasant. Be approachable. Smile & let people see you enjoy being out there & that is exactly where you want to be.

[woodiemiller]

I want to know why is it that if high school & college coaches are PAID to do a job, why are they not held as accountable to be as "professional" as we are as umpires? If they lose their temper, it's ok. If we lose our temper we are told that we are being "unprofessional" or need to be MORE "professional". Why shouldnt we all be held at the same accountability of being "professional"? 

P.S. I hate the term "professional" at amateur levels.

[maven]

I want to know why is it that if high school & college coaches are PAID to do a job, why are they not held as accountable to be as "professional" as we are as umpires? if they lose their temper, it's ok. If we lose our temper we are told that we are being "unprofessional" or need to be MORE "professional". Why shouldnt we all be held at the same accountability of being "professional"? 

P.S. I hate the term "professional" at amateur levels.

 

Part of a coach's job is to advocate. Some advocate by trying to bully umpires or otherwise yelling. Regarding such behavior from an adult man as appropriate gets a pass under the mistaken notion that anything is fine as long as one is "passionate" about it. So I agree with your first point.

 

Regarding your second point: I am an amateur umpire in the etymological sense, namely that I do it for the love of umpiring rather than for the money. But that status does not mean I cannot strive for a high degree of professionalism, and if I act "unprofessionally," that's a ding against my professionalism, not against being a pro umpire.

[noumpere]

 

do NOT go looking to enforce a rule NOBODY cares about (i.e. a pitchers under sleeve might be longer on one arm than the other)

 

I'm not measuring, but if one sleeve is down to the wrist, and the other is not even peeking out from under the jersey -- yes, I'm enforcing it.

 

And, if you wait for someone to "bring it to your attention" it *can* look like you're just being influenced by the coach and that *can* lead to more problems in the game.  Knowing when to do what is part of the art  of umpiring.

[woodiemiller]

 

I want to know why is it that if high school & college coaches are PAID to do a job, why are they not held as accountable to be as "professional" as we are as umpires? if they lose their temper, it's ok. If we lose our temper we are told that we are being "unprofessional" or need to be MORE "professional". Why shouldnt we all be held at the same accountability of being "professional"? 

P.S. I hate the term "professional" at amateur levels.

 

Part of a coach's job is to advocate. Some advocate by trying to bully umpires or otherwise yelling. Regarding such behavior from an adult man as appropriate gets a pass under the mistaken notion that anything is fine as long as one is "passionate" about it. So I agree with your first point.

 

Regarding your second point: I am an amateur umpire in the etymological sense, namely that I do it for the love of umpiring rather than for the money. But that status does not mean I cannot strive for a high degree of professionalism, and if I act "unprofessionally," that's a ding against my professionalism, not against being a pro umpire.

 

But everyone seems to know what "professional" means & what entails "professionalism". Some say I dont take umpiring seriously because Im always smiling & laughing out on a baseball field. I say I am being MORE "serious" about umpiring because the vast majority of players, coaches & parents do NOT want a hard ass out there. They prefer seeing an umpire who is relaxed, allows everyone else to be relaxed and have a good time which is what baseball is all about. P.S. I can umpire too.

[woodiemiller]

 

 

do NOT go looking to enforce a rule NOBODY cares about (i.e. a pitchers under sleeve might be longer on one arm than the other)

 

I'm not measuring, but if one sleeve is down to the wrist, and the other is not even peeking out from under the jersey -- yes, I'm enforcing it.

 

And, if you wait for someone to "bring it to your attention" it *can* look like you're just being influenced by the coach and that *can* lead to more problems in the game.  Knowing when to do what is part of the art  of umpiring.

 

Really? Let me ask you this.......where is the advantage or disadvantage to the sleeves? Umpires are to keep things "fair" (pun intended). Keep things on an even playing field. Do NOT go looking for rules to enforce that nobody is bringing to your attention. That will start more problems than anything. As someone here posted so spot on "Use the rulebook to solve problems, dont use the rulebook to create problems" or something similar to that effect.

[noumpere]

 

Really? Let me ask you this.......where is the advantage or disadvantage to the sleeves?

 

 

 

Don't know, but the NCAA put it in, and they want it enforced, at least around here.

[MidAmUmp]

There is a difference between sleeves not being even and a pitcher only wearing one sleeve.

If the sleeves aren't even, ignore it.

If he only has one sleeve, make him take it off or fix it.

[Majordave]

Not trying to be funny or a dick here. What if a pitcher has one of those stupid neoprene sleeve things on each arm/elbow and they match colors but he is wearing a short sleeved jersey or t-shirt that does not cover the neoprene thingies?

What do you rule? Haven't seen it myself but it could definitely happen and probably already has.