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About Jimurray

  1. FED doesn't care if you mess up a live ball appeal because they allow dead ball apeals. So if you are not siding with FED who are you siding with?
  2. Yes, but the point is, it's not that simple in OBR and NCAA. Your players may know how to execute a simple live ball appeal but If the screw up, such as a ball out of play or a balk, do your umpires know the wrinkles in OBR and NCAA.
  3. I think you liked it:
  4. You are right about a properly executed live ball appeal, such as throwing to the base that the runner, who left early, was returning to. And if your guys are properly executing other live ball appeals, such as walking the ball to tag R3, who as R1 just missed 2B, then kudos to your neck of the woods. Many people think that a pitcher has to take the rubber to appeal when the ball was never dead. That leads to goat ropes. And even in MLB stuff can happen. Cliff Lee got improperly balked on an appeal and agreed with it. I would question if the umpires in your neck of the woods, based on my impressions of your posts on the subject, would handle OBR and NCAA appeals and the arcane situations that could occur. I think there is even a situation that I last posted in that has hit a dead end. Regarding dead ball balks, on another forum a zealot railed against the FED rule. He then kicked the OBR rule on what we gently called an arcane part of the rule. Tellme you are ready to put on a trick f clinic, having your cohorts deal with every perturbation of either appeals or balks, and you will have attendees.
  5. Most of the pros that I see going HOK at TOP or prior appear not to lock there, the OP video included.
  6. I think the thread is a about post game. I would question why from one game to the other an umpire would need to go to his partner, and whether the impetus was a coach or his uncertainty about what he saw. What improvement are you talking about?
  7. Your cite answers @Stk004 question because I believe there was a break in the action when the first appeal took place. If the first appeal was part of the continuous action created by the batted ball I think a second appeal at 2B would be allowed. I am uncertain if an appeal at 3B would be reallowed but I lean towards not. Would you continue to paste the remainder of the PBUC cite which refers to "definite break in action". Real world application: R1, R2, fly ball to outfield, R2 tags, R1 doesn't, throw is to 1B to appeal R1 sliding back while R2 advances and misses 3B as the overthrow of 1B goes out of play. Awards are made but R2 never retouches 3B. Can R2 be appealed at 3B because the original appeal in which the defense erred and threw it out of play was part of "continuous action"?
  8. You might have to change the sort order of the thread to understand the first part of the OP was already correctly addressed and the second question of the OP was "if the defense appeals the two missed touches" , one of those being an advantageous fourth out.
  9. The question is where did you learn what you had to unlearn?
  10. Nothing to do with this threads OPs. Ump might have missed a second out on R2 off the bag. Karma got the second out.
  11. Advantageous fourth, fifth etc. outs are allowed on the same runner. But a runner can not make more than one of the three outs used to end an inning.
  12. Why not? It's a fourth out appeal at a different base.
  13. I think @Senor Azul and @MadMax need to continue reading in that chapter of the BRD. My 2011 version has a play with R1 and R3 with a wild pickoff allowing R3 to score and F9, in foul territory prepitch, throwing R1 out at 3B. NCAA ruling: Coach's choice of R1 and R3 or run scored and one out.
  14. Thurston clears the rule up slightly. But is the criteria a batted ball or no advantage to the defense? Here's the rule: "Positions of the Defensive Team SECTION 4. At the start of or during a game, all players of the defensive team except the catcher must be in fair territory when the ball is put in play. Being in fair territory means that a defensive player must have at least one foot placed in fair territory. a. The catcher must stand with both feet within the lines of the catcher's box until the pitcher releases the ball. PENALTY-It is an illegal pitch if no one is on base and a balk if a runner(s) is on base. b. The pitcher must be in a legal position while delivering the ball to the batter. c. Other than the pitcher and catcher, all other fielders may position themselves anywhere in fair territory. PENALTY for c.-The play, if it benefits the defense, shall be nullified. If it is an appeal play; all fielders, other than the catcher, must be in fair territory to start an appeal play after "time" has been called. If a fielder (other than the catcher) is in foul territory, the umpire should not put the ball in play- If the umpire inadvertenly does so, there is no penalty (this is not a balk), nor does the defense lose its chance to appeal on the same runner once the ball is properly put back into play. A fielder may go into foul territory to back up an appeal play after the ball bas been put into play." So if F9 goes foul to catch a batted ball before a "pitch is delivered" (TOP ?) the out is nullified. If F9 goes foul to back up an appeal play you require him to stay fair until you point. If the ball is not dead and "c" is violated by F9 backing up a planned wild pickoff deke do we nullify the play if they get an out on R1?
  15. In FED and OBR, here's how I'm calling it. If the force existed at the time of the miss it's a forced base appeal. In NCAA, in live action, if the force existed at the time of the miss, it's a forced base appeal. In NCAA, if an appeal takes place after live action the order of forced base appeals matters, not that I like that interp.