asking for help BEFORE you make the call?

[1dumbquestion]

18U. R2, 2 outs. B4 hits deep to F6. F6 attemps to look R2 back and then makes a poor throw to F3 pulling him slightly up the line. F3 catches and swings around attemping to tag the BR behind and beyond his position. I'm PU, I watch the play unfold and glance at R2 as he gets to 3rd turn my head toward 1st just as the tag attempt happens. BU then points at me and yells "DID HE GET HIM". Not at all expecting this and honestly not sure if there was a tag I gave a quick and solid safe mechanic and verbal "no tag". You are welcome to tell me what I could have done differently but my real concern is my BU coming to me instead of making a call and then if the coach askes maybe come for help, in private, quietly. Is there still a school of thought that is ok with the yelling across the field for your partner to make your call? FYI, when we were leaving the field he said he had to leave right away and got in a running car and was gone, so no post-game. Thanks, 1

[LMSANS]

In  our high school mechanics we have been told that the correct procedure is"

BU:I have an out if you have a tag.  Do you have a tag?

PU: No tag.

BU: Safe

 

This tells everybody that the BU did not see a tag, but the attempt was before the BR reached the base.  The same steps are followed for a pulled foot at first.

 

I personally haven't done this since my rookie year.  I will make my call.  If I have any doubts, and the coach asks me to get help, I will get together with my partner and find out what he has.

As PU, I have had a couple of guys come to me in this way and I gave him what I had.

[Jocko]

No. Your partner left you hanging amd potentially made you BOTH look bad. I learned this lesson the hard way as well. If I have no idea (straight lined, blocked, etc) I will read the visible clues. If I can't get a read, I will use the S.W.A.G. method. Either way, I'M making MY call. Then, and only then, will my partner and I confer. Never ever yell across the field. Never ever throw your HP under the bus like this. What would've happened had you turned your head AFTER the tag attempt and you didnt see ANYTHING? Now the crew has lost credibility. Make a call. Right or wrong. Then GET TOGETHER, if needed. Often, a quick glance at your HP will give you the info you need to confirm your call. A head nod. A knuckle bump. Whatever you normally do to signal agreement with your partners.

Which opens a new train of thought. Ima start a new thread....

[Jocko]

In  our high school mechanics we have been told that the correct procedure is"

BU:I have an out if you have a tag.  Do you have a tag?

PU: No tag.

BU: Safe

 

This tells everybody that the BU did not see a tag, but the attempt was before the BR reached the base.  The same steps are followed for a pulled foot at first.

 

I personally haven't done this since my rookie year.  I will make my call.  If I have any doubts, and the coach asks me to get help, I will get together with my partner and find out what he has.

As PU, I have had a couple of guys come to me in this way and I gave him what I had.

of course you have an out if he saw a tag. Still, not proper mech imo. HP may have moved up the library a step or two and didnt see anything either. Im thinking possible fpsr infraction and he stepped out tobsee past F1 to be sure there was no infraction.

[maven]

First: it's not your call, so don't make one. No safe sign, just answer partner's question.

 

Second: you didn't have much info for him ("honestly not sure if there was a tag"), so don't sell "No tag!"

 

Third: when he comes to you and you've got nothing for him, go ahead and call time to talk to him. Tell him you've got nothing, and he needs to make the call based on what he saw.

 

Somebody's not going to like the outcome, but that was true anyway. At least this way they're unlikely to go fishing, because they already know you go together.

 

Finally: I understand that your question concerns the "correct" mechanic for a swipe tag. Should BU make a call then get help, or get help first? You'll see different opinions about that; I was trained to get a call on the books and then go for help if asked. My state now wants us to do it the way Larry posted above.

 

IMO, either way can work, but it gets dicey if PU has no help to give.

[LMSANS]

 

In  our high school mechanics we have been told that the correct procedure is"

BU:I have an out if you have a tag.  Do you have a tag?

PU: No tag.

BU: Safe

 

This tells everybody that the BU did not see a tag, but the attempt was before the BR reached the base.  The same steps are followed for a pulled foot at first.

 

I personally haven't done this since my rookie year.  I will make my call.  If I have any doubts, and the coach asks me to get help, I will get together with my partner and find out what he has.

As PU, I have had a couple of guys come to me in this way and I gave him what I had.

of course you have an out if he saw a tag. Still, not proper mech imo. HP may have moved up the library a step or two and didnt see anything either. Im thinking possible fpsr infraction and he stepped out tobsee past F1 to be sure there was no infraction.

 

Unfortunately, NJ is not as advanced as AL in our mechanics.

[MidAmUmp]

I can't hit my head against a wall hard enough on crap like this.

 

Guys, THIS NEEDS TO BE PRE-GAMED!!!  You need to discuss being responsible for your own calls and making the call.

 

The base umpire MUST make a call, then you can get help afterwards.  He doesn't know what you are looking at or doing.  He has no idea if you are watching that play (you should at least be glancing that way because you need to know the status of the ball, but you do have other responsibilities).

 

Sometimes they legitimately get screened (it happened to me earlier this year...a player got in my way at the exact time of the tag), but most of the time they are just lazy, won't get into proper position, OR even worse, don't have the balls to make a close/controversial call.

 

Now, to answer your question of what you should do if this happens to you...

You already have tire marks on your back from being thrown under the bus.  Personally, I'd throw your partner back under the bus and put it back on him.  I'd tell him it's his call and I'd explain loud enough for everyone to know what I was doing and why I wasn't watching his responsibilities.

Disclaimer: Don't always do what I do.  It might lead to you getting into trouble.

[StrikeToWin]

I actually had a partner make his call and even before the coach had a chance to come out and ask if he could get help, he was calling time and running in to me at the plate.  I told him what I saw and we got the call right, but he thought he was probably wrong with his initial call but made it anyway.

[ALStripes17]

I can't hit my head against a wall hard enough on crap like this.

Guys, THIS NEEDS TO BE PRE-GAMED!!! You need to discuss being responsible for your own calls and making the call.

The base umpire MUST make a call, then you can get help afterwards. He doesn't know what you are looking at or doing. He has no idea if you are watching that play (you should at least be glancing that way because you need to know the status of the ball, but you do have other responsibilities).

Sometimes they legitimately get screened (it happened to me earlier this year...a player got in my way at the exact time of the tag), but most of the time they are just lazy, won't get into proper position, OR even worse, don't have the balls to make a close/controversial call.

Now, to answer your question of what you should do if this happens to you...

You already have tire marks on your back from being thrown under the bus. Personally, I'd throw your partner back under the bus and put it back on him. I'd tell him it's his call and I'd explain loud enough for everyone to know what I was doing and why I wasn't watching his responsibilities.

Disclaimer: Don't always do what I do. It might lead to you getting into trouble.

Had a rookie partner leave me out to dry on a check swing appeal.

Partner is in C and I appeal to him on a 1-2 check swing because the pitch was up and in (blocked out). He looks at me and says "Im in the middle of the field, I cant help you here!"

Punk had the gall to actually tell me later that he was sorry, that it was unprofessional, and that THE SOB OFFERED AT THE PITCH!

Seriously, are we allowed to eject partners?

[MidAmUmp]

 

I can't hit my head against a wall hard enough on crap like this.

Guys, THIS NEEDS TO BE PRE-GAMED!!! You need to discuss being responsible for your own calls and making the call.

The base umpire MUST make a call, then you can get help afterwards. He doesn't know what you are looking at or doing. He has no idea if you are watching that play (you should at least be glancing that way because you need to know the status of the ball, but you do have other responsibilities).

Sometimes they legitimately get screened (it happened to me earlier this year...a player got in my way at the exact time of the tag), but most of the time they are just lazy, won't get into proper position, OR even worse, don't have the balls to make a close/controversial call.

Now, to answer your question of what you should do if this happens to you...

You already have tire marks on your back from being thrown under the bus. Personally, I'd throw your partner back under the bus and put it back on him. I'd tell him it's his call and I'd explain loud enough for everyone to know what I was doing and why I wasn't watching his responsibilities.

Disclaimer: Don't always do what I do. It might lead to you getting into trouble.

Had a rookie partner leave me out to dry on a check swing appeal.

Partner is in C and I appeal to him on a 1-2 check swing because the pitch was up and in (blocked out). He looks at me and says "Im in the middle of the field, I cant help you here!"

Punk had the gall to actually tell me later that he was sorry, that it was unprofessional, and that THE SOB OFFERED AT THE PITCH!

Seriously, are we allowed to eject partners?

 

I might have called time, walked out there and kicked him in the nuts.

Disclaimer: Don't always do what I do.  It might lead to you getting into trouble.

[Kevin_K]

In  our high school mechanics we have been told that the correct procedure is"

BU:I have an out if you have a tag.  Do you have a tag?

PU: No tag.

BU: Safe

 

This tells everybody that the BU did not see a tag, but the attempt was before the BR reached the base.  The same steps are followed for a pulled foot at first.

 

I personally haven't done this since my rookie year.  I will make my call.  If I have any doubts, and the coach asks me to get help, I will get together with my partner and find out what he has.

As PU, I have had a couple of guys come to me in this way and I gave him what I had.

Ya gotta love NJ High School Associations! All the chapter interpreters get the same information from the NJSIAA, yet mechanics vary significantly from chapter to chapter. I am in a different chapter than @LMSANS and our interpreter teaches to make the call and then get together with your partner if there is any need to.

 

Like Larry, I make my call and then if I see any need to get together, I will. I will not ask my partner to do my job, nor do I expect him to grab the dirty end of the stick by "asking" him from across the field what he saw. 

 

As others have said, though, I like to discuss this in a pregame along with the other funky situations that seem to get some of us into jams.

[Birdieseeker]

I've heard this done before in the OP's situation

BU: "Partner, what you got?"

PU: "I've got the plate!"

Bravo to the plate guy. Kind of like MidAm's throwing him back under the bus

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JHSump]

"If I can't get a read, I will use the S.W.A.G. method. "

 

@Jocko Today I learned what SWAG means --- sorry, I had to google it.  I think I will try this acronym on my partner today, when we pregame this very situation.

[DVA7130]

 

 

I can't hit my head against a wall hard enough on crap like this.

Guys, THIS NEEDS TO BE PRE-GAMED!!! You need to discuss being responsible for your own calls and making the call.

The base umpire MUST make a call, then you can get help afterwards. He doesn't know what you are looking at or doing. He has no idea if you are watching that play (you should at least be glancing that way because you need to know the status of the ball, but you do have other responsibilities).

Sometimes they legitimately get screened (it happened to me earlier this year...a player got in my way at the exact time of the tag), but most of the time they are just lazy, won't get into proper position, OR even worse, don't have the balls to make a close/controversial call.

Now, to answer your question of what you should do if this happens to you...

You already have tire marks on your back from being thrown under the bus. Personally, I'd throw your partner back under the bus and put it back on him. I'd tell him it's his call and I'd explain loud enough for everyone to know what I was doing and why I wasn't watching his responsibilities.

Disclaimer: Don't always do what I do. It might lead to you getting into trouble.

Had a rookie partner leave me out to dry on a check swing appeal.

Partner is in C and I appeal to him on a 1-2 check swing because the pitch was up and in (blocked out). He looks at me and says "Im in the middle of the field, I cant help you here!"

Punk had the gall to actually tell me later that he was sorry, that it was unprofessional, and that THE SOB OFFERED AT THE PITCH!

Seriously, are we allowed to eject partners?

 

I might have called time, walked out there and kicked him in the nuts.

Disclaimer: Don't always do what I do.  It might lead to you getting into trouble.

 

If I am in B/C, it is a no-swing if I happen to get an appeal

[maven]

"If I can't get a read, I will use the S.W.A.G. method. "

 

@Jocko Today I learned what SWAG means --- sorry, I had to google it.  I think I will try this acronym on my partner today, when we pregame this very situation.

 

first entry in the urban dictionary: "secretly we are gay."

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I don't see how it applies.

[afaber12]

 

"If I can't get a read, I will use the S.W.A.G. method. "

 

@Jocko Today I learned what SWAG means --- sorry, I had to google it.  I think I will try this acronym on my partner today, when we pregame this very situation.

 

first entry in the urban dictionary: "secretly we are gay."

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I don't see how it applies.

 

 

That's a reference to how we are secretly out to get teams by making terrible calls and making up rules to suit ourselves, which when done correctly makes us happy or "gay". It's a term that's been around for quite a long time, but possibly needs to be updated to "Secretly We Are Grinning".

 

This isn't visible to non-umpires right? Otherwise I might have blown our cover... 

[Jocko]

Scientific

Wild

Ass

Guess

[BigUmpire]

"we are secretly out to get teams by making terrible calls and making up rules to suit ourselves"

The above is my standard pregame with my partner.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[noumpere]

 

If I am in B/C, it is a no-swing if I happen to get an appeal

 

This thread has taken a little of a silly turn, but in case you are serious --

 

You are getting a paycheck even when you ar in B/C.  Earn it.  Make the call based on what you see.  It's just not that hard.

[Jocko]

If I am in B/C, it is a no-swing if I happen to get an appeal

This thread has taken a little of a silly turn, but in case you are serious --

You are getting a paycheck even when you ar in B/C. Earn it. Make the call based on what you see. It's just not that hard.agreed. You have an opinion. Your partner asked for your opinion. Give it to him. If you had an attempt, looky there! A strike added to the count. Doesn't get much better than a free strike.

[umpstu]

 

 

 

I can't hit my head against a wall hard enough on crap like this.

Guys, THIS NEEDS TO BE PRE-GAMED!!! You need to discuss being responsible for your own calls and making the call.

The base umpire MUST make a call, then you can get help afterwards. He doesn't know what you are looking at or doing. He has no idea if you are watching that play (you should at least be glancing that way because you need to know the status of the ball, but you do have other responsibilities).

Sometimes they legitimately get screened (it happened to me earlier this year...a player got in my way at the exact time of the tag), but most of the time they are just lazy, won't get into proper position, OR even worse, don't have the balls to make a close/controversial call.

Now, to answer your question of what you should do if this happens to you...

You already have tire marks on your back from being thrown under the bus. Personally, I'd throw your partner back under the bus and put it back on him. I'd tell him it's his call and I'd explain loud enough for everyone to know what I was doing and why I wasn't watching his responsibilities.

Disclaimer: Don't always do what I do. It might lead to you getting into trouble.

Had a rookie partner leave me out to dry on a check swing appeal.

Partner is in C and I appeal to him on a 1-2 check swing because the pitch was up and in (blocked out). He looks at me and says "Im in the middle of the field, I cant help you here!"

Punk had the gall to actually tell me later that he was sorry, that it was unprofessional, and that THE SOB OFFERED AT THE PITCH!

Seriously, are we allowed to eject partners?

 

I might have called time, walked out there and kicked him in the nuts.

Disclaimer: Don't always do what I do.  It might lead to you getting into trouble.

 

If I am in B/C, it is a no-swing if I happen to get an appeal

 

If that batter cork screws into the underworld you're calling a ball because you're in the b or c position?  Grow a set and make an informed call.  

[MikeSafari]

Pretty much the only time I've had this come up and be something I can get behind is on a dropped third strike with runners on. Had this happen last weekend.

 

R2 and R3, dropped third strike and catcher couldn't find it. In the confusion, R2+R3 started to move while BR made his way to first with some haste. Catcher found the ball, looked back the runners, and made the throw down to first for a bang-bang play.

 

Partner asked me if that was strike three before making the call. Confirmed, and he banged out the BR on the play.

[BaltimoreUmpire]

I can't hit my head against a wall hard enough on crap like this.

Guys, THIS NEEDS TO BE PRE-GAMED!!! You need to discuss being responsible for your own calls and making the call.

The base umpire MUST make a call, then you can get help afterwards. He doesn't know what you are looking at or doing. He has no idea if you are watching that play (you should at least be glancing that way because you need to know the status of the ball, but you do have other responsibilities).

Sometimes they legitimately get screened (it happened to me earlier this year...a player got in my way at the exact time of the tag), but most of the time they are just lazy, won't get into proper position, OR even worse, don't have the balls to make a close/controversial call.

Now, to answer your question of what you should do if this happens to you...

You already have tire marks on your back from being thrown under the bus. Personally, I'd throw your partner back under the bus and put it back on him. I'd tell him it's his call and I'd explain loud enough for everyone to know what I was doing and why I wasn't watching his responsibilities.

Disclaimer: Don't always do what I do. It might lead to you getting into trouble.

Had a rookie partner leave me out to dry on a check swing appeal.

Partner is in C and I appeal to him on a 1-2 check swing because the pitch was up and in (blocked out). He looks at me and says "Im in the middle of the field, I cant help you here!"

Punk had the gall to actually tell me later that he was sorry, that it was unprofessional, and that THE SOB OFFERED AT THE PITCH!

Seriously, are we allowed to eject partners?

I might have called time, walked out there and kicked him in the nuts.

Disclaimer: Don't always do what I do. It might lead to you getting into trouble.

If I am in B/C, it is a no-swing if I happen to get an appeal

If that batter cork screws into the underworld you're calling a ball because you're in the b or c position? Grow a set and make an informed call. i think he ment if its close not obvious which I agree with if your getting a check swing its a ball call by the PU and if your not sure its best to stick with your PU's call rather than change it if your not sure if it was a full swing

[Replacematt]

I can't hit my head against a wall hard enough on crap like this.

Guys, THIS NEEDS TO BE PRE-GAMED!!! You need to discuss being responsible for your own calls and making the call.

The base umpire MUST make a call, then you can get help afterwards. He doesn't know what you are looking at or doing. He has no idea if you are watching that play (you should at least be glancing that way because you need to know the status of the ball, but you do have other responsibilities).

Sometimes they legitimately get screened (it happened to me earlier this year...a player got in my way at the exact time of the tag), but most of the time they are just lazy, won't get into proper position, OR even worse, don't have the balls to make a close/controversial call.

Now, to answer your question of what you should do if this happens to you...

You already have tire marks on your back from being thrown under the bus. Personally, I'd throw your partner back under the bus and put it back on him. I'd tell him it's his call and I'd explain loud enough for everyone to know what I was doing and why I wasn't watching his responsibilities.

Disclaimer: Don't always do what I do. It might lead to you getting into trouble.

Had a rookie partner leave me out to dry on a check swing appeal.

Partner is in C and I appeal to him on a 1-2 check swing because the pitch was up and in (blocked out). He looks at me and says "Im in the middle of the field, I cant help you here!"

Punk had the gall to actually tell me later that he was sorry, that it was unprofessional, and that THE SOB OFFERED AT THE PITCH!

Seriously, are we allowed to eject partners?

I might have called time, walked out there and kicked him in the nuts.

Disclaimer: Don't always do what I do. It might lead to you getting into trouble.

If I am in B/C, it is a no-swing if I happen to get an appeal

If that batter cork screws into the underworld you're calling a ball because you're in the b or c position? Grow a set and make an informed call.

i think he ment if its close not obvious which I agree with if your getting a check swing its a ball call by the PU and if your not sure its best to stick with your PU's call rather than change it if your not sure if it was a full swing

You're overcomplicating things. If you have a swing, it's a strike. If you don't, it's not. Same as in A.

[UMP45]

Pretty much the only time I've had this come up and be something I can get behind is on a dropped third strike with runners on. Had this happen last weekend.

 

R2 and R3, dropped third strike and catcher couldn't find it. In the confusion, R2+R3 started to move while BR made his way to first with some haste. Catcher found the ball, looked back the runners, and made the throw down to first for a bang-bang play.

 

Partner asked me if that was strike three before making the call. Confirmed, and he banged out the BR on the play.

So your partner made s$%t up? WOW!