Balk Call Mechanics

[Larry in TN]

8.05 - If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --

PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

What are the proper mechanics for calling a balk when the pitch is already in progress?

 

I've seen a number of balk calls this past week in Little League Intermediate and Junior division games were a loud "BALK!" call during the pitch stopped action even though the pitch was delivered.  In one case, the batter hit a pop-up to F6 and the BU actually stopped the fielders from catching the ball.

 

Looking at the penalty language (above) the ball isn't dead until we know that the BR hasn't reached 1B or all runners have not advanced at least one base. That would seem to indicate that the play should proceed until that determination is make.

 

 

[Thunderheads]

Playing under OBR, the ball is still live ....but .... 99% of the time, everything stops when you say "THAT'S A BALK!"

 

For your question, you point, ... "that's a balk" ....and wait to see what happens.  When play relaxes, call time.

 

For FED, ..."that's a balk" time" because a balk is immediately dead.

 

However, your partner needs to understand the 'balk' protocol

[grayhawk]

How did BU stop the fielders from catching the ball?

[Jocko]

@grayhawk - tackled him

[maven]

Larry, you're confusing the provision under which the balk is ignored with the provision for when the ball is dead. And it sounds as if your partner is confusing the OBR rule with the FED rule.

 

The FED rule is easy: balk = immediate dead ball. Nothing else happens, no pitch, no catch, no advances. Move the runners, reset the battery, play on.

 

The OBR rule is more complicated. For a no-stop balk, for instance, the proper mechanic is to declare "That's a balk!" and allow play to continue. If F1 pitches without interruption and the batter hits the pitch, then play continues until the end of playing action. At that point, if the BR and all runners have reached their advance base, then the balk is ignored and the play stands (including outs). Otherwise, the batter returns, the pitch is nullified, and the runners are advanced on the balk. (No coach option here.)

 

As Steve points out, usually when you shout, "That's a balk!" everyone stops. Then you'd kill it and enforce the balk.

[Thunderheads]

Larry, you're confusing the provision under which the balk is ignored with the provision for when the ball is dead. And it sounds as if your partner is confusing the OBR rule with the FED rule.

 

The FED rule is easy: balk = immediate dead ball. Nothing else happens, no pitch, no catch, no advances. Move the runners, reset the battery, play on.

 

The OBR rule is more complicated. For a no-stop balk, for instance, the proper mechanic is to declare "That's a balk!" and allow play to continue. If F1 pitches without interruption and the batter hits the pitch, then play continues until the end of playing action. At that point, if the BR and all runners have reached their advance base, then the balk is ignored and the play stands (including outs). Otherwise, the batter returns, the pitch is nullified, and the runners are advanced on the balk. (No coach option here.)

 

As Steve Jeff points out, usually when you shout, "That's a balk!" everyone stops. Then you'd kill it and enforce the balk.

fixed

[Larry in TN]

How did BU stop the fielders from catching the ball?

 

While F6 was setting up under the ball the BU, who was in C, called him off.  Don't know exactly what he said but the fielder stopped and the ball dropped untouched.

 

 

Larry, you're confusing the provision under which the balk is ignored with the provision for when the ball is dead. And it sounds as if your partner is confusing the OBR rule with the FED rule.

 

Thanks.  That's pretty much what I thought it should be though I didn't know that it was an immediate dead ball in FED.  The umpire in question does work FED games so that may be what he's thinking.

 

So is it correct to saw that under OBR a balk is a delayed dead ball?

 

FWIW, I'm a scorer, not an umpire, so I'm just watching, and recording, this from behind the fence.

[noumpere]

 

 

So is it correct to saw that under OBR a balk is a delayed dead ball?

 

Sometimes.

 

(Only if the balk is immediately followed by a throw or pitch)

[grayhawk]

 

How did BU stop the fielders from catching the ball?

 

While F6 was setting up under the ball the BU, who was in C, called him off.  Don't know exactly what he said but the fielder stopped and the ball dropped untouched.

 

 

What an incredibly stupid thing to do.  Even in Fed where balks are immediately dead, I'm not going to distract a fielder when a ball is coming at him.  I pay for liability insurance, but that doesn't mean I want to use it!

[VolUmp]

The two examples in OBR where the balk is not immediately dead is when the pitch is delivered despite the balk call, and when a pickoff throw is made despite a balk call.

 

If the pitch is made and the batter and all runners advance one base, as stated above, the balk is ignored ... same thing with an errant pickoff throw.

Suppose the bases are loaded with two out and a full count.  This is a ripe situation for the runners to want to get a head start and the pitcher will try to pick any one of them off.

If he balks in the process, but makes the throw wildly and all runners try to advance, in essence, they are each protected to the next base ONLY.

 

If any one of them is thrown out prior to reaching the next base, THEN you kill the play and enforce the balk.

Otherwise, if they each reach the next base, the balk is ignored.

 

And maybe the FED rule is easier to understand, but it is the stupidest, most unfair rule in the FED book.

I've stated this often, that MLB once had the same rule.  ALL BALKS were IMMEDIATELY a DEAD BALL.

MLB got tired of watching 3-run homers that "never happened" because a balk was called during a pitch.

MLB got tired of screwing the offense out of three runs in exchange for a 1 base award per runner from a defensive infraction.

So ... MLB fixed the bad rule.  In 1958.

 

So ... 56 years later, FED is arrogant enough to think the better version is to call all balks immediately dead.

 

Now ... mechanics wise, since I call FED, I still point and say "That's a balk" and then call TIME when the pitch hits the mitt or glove.

I can't go back and forth between the mechanics depending on which rules set I'm calling, so it's done the same way.

 

MOST importantly, if you're the plate ump, just because you are calling a FED game doesn't mean the batter won't swing at a pitch thrown as a balk is called.

The players don't know the rules.  The coaches don't know the rules.  Some of the umpires don't know the rules as well as they should.

The umpire is trained to stay down and not come up with his hands high in a time out signal for fear of getting a foul ball in the throat.

 

Ideally, in FED, all balks should be called, "TIME ... That's a balk!"

For safety sake, I don't.

[Thunderheads]

The two examples in OBR where the balk is not immediately dead is when the pitch is delivered despite the balk call, and when a pickoff throw is made despite a balk call.

 

If the pitch is made and the batter and all runners advance one base, as stated above, the balk is ignored ... same thing with an errant pickoff throw.

Suppose the bases are loaded with two out and a full count.  This is a ripe situation for the runners to want to get a head start and the pitcher will try to pick any one of them off.

If he balks in the process, but makes the throw wildly and all runners try to advance, in essence, they are each protected to the next base ONLY.

 

If any one of them is thrown out prior to reaching the next base, THEN you kill the play and enforce the balk.

Otherwise, if they each reach the next base, the balk is ignored.

 

And maybe the FED rule is easier to understand, but it is the stupidest, most unfair rule in the FED book.

I've stated this often, that MLB once had the same rule.  ALL BALKS were IMMEDIATELY a DEAD BALL.

MLB got tired of watching 3-run homers that "never happened" because a balk was called during a pitch.

MLB got tired of screwing the offense out of three runs in exchange for a 1 base award per runner from a defensive infraction.

So ... MLB fixed the bad rule.  In 1958.

 

So ... 56 years later, FED is arrogant enough to think the better version is to call all balks immediately dead.

 

Now ... mechanics wise, since I call FED, I still point and say "That's a balk" and then call TIME when the pitch hits the mitt or glove.

I can't go back and forth between the mechanics depending on which rules set I'm calling, so it's done the same way.

 

MOST importantly, if you're the plate ump, just because you are calling a FED game doesn't mean the batter won't swing at a pitch thrown as a balk is called.

The players don't know the rules.  The coaches don't know the rules.  Some of the umpires don't know the rules as well as they should.

The umpire is trained to stay down and not come up with his hands high in a time out signal for fear of getting a foul ball in the throat.

 

Ideally, in FED, all balks should be called, "TIME ... That's a balk!"

For safety sake, I don't.

[ALStripes17]

The two examples in OBR where the balk is not immediately dead is when the pitch is delivered despite the balk call, and when a pickoff throw is made despite a balk call.

If the pitch is made and the batter and all runners advance one base, as stated above, the balk is ignored ... same thing with an errant pickoff throw.

Suppose the bases are loaded with two out and a full count. This is a ripe situation for the runners to want to get a head start and the pitcher will try to pick any one of them off.

If he balks in the process, but makes the throw wildly and all runners try to advance, in essence, they are each protected to the next base ONLY.

If any one of them is thrown out prior to reaching the next base, THEN you kill the play and enforce the balk.

Otherwise, if they each reach the next base, the balk is ignored.

And maybe the FED rule is easier to understand, but it is the stupidest, most unfair rule in the FED book.

I've stated this often, that MLB once had the same rule. ALL BALKS were IMMEDIATELY a DEAD BALL.

MLB got tired of watching 3-run homers that "never happened" because a balk was called during a pitch.

MLB got tired of screwing the offense out of three runs in exchange for a 1 base award per runner from a defensive infraction.

So ... MLB fixed the bad rule. In 1958.

So ... 56 years later, FED is arrogant enough to think the better version is to call all balks immediately dead.

Now ... mechanics wise, since I call FED, I still point and say "That's a balk" and then call TIME when the pitch hits the mitt or glove.

I can't go back and forth between the mechanics depending on which rules set I'm calling, so it's done the same way.

MOST importantly, if you're the plate ump, just because you are calling a FED game doesn't mean the batter won't swing at a pitch thrown as a balk is called.

The players don't know the rules. The coaches don't know the rules. Some of the umpires don't know the rules as well as they should.

The umpire is trained to stay down and not come up with his hands high in a time out signal for fear of getting a foul ball in the throat.

Ideally, in FED, all balks should be called, "TIME ... That's a balk!"

For safety sake, I don't.

For OBR, I'm in the understanding that the batter does not have to reach base to nullify a balk when an errant pickoff throw occurs. The batter provision is only under 8.05m.

Please advise U-E.

[VolUmp]

How can a batter POSSIBLY reach first base as a result of a pickoff attempt?

 

That's not logical, and it's not what I implicitly stated above.

 

"Same thing" is referring to another example of where a balk is not an immediate dead ball.

[noumpere]

 

For OBR, I'm in the understanding that the batter does not have to reach base to nullify a balk when an errant pickoff throw occurs. The batter provision is only under 8.05m.

Please advise U-E.

 

You can even have a pitch where the batter doesn't reach first and the balk is nullified (for the runners at least).

[ALStripes17]

How can a batter POSSIBLY reach first base as a result of a pickoff attempt?

That's not logical, and it's not what I implicitly stated above.

"Same thing" is referring to another example of where a balk is not an immediate dead ball.

Whoa, relax. There are people who come on here to ask questions and can be confused by unspecified modifiers. Just making sure everyone is on the same page. Rule references man... rule references.

[ALStripes17]

For OBR, I'm in the understanding that the batter does not have to reach base to nullify a balk when an errant pickoff throw occurs. The batter provision is only under 8.05m.

Please advise U-E.

You can even have a pitch where the batter doesn't reach first and the balk is nullified (for the runners at least).

I venture to say that this is one of the discrepancies in OBR but is interpreted for the intent pf the rule. Obviously on a balk that becomes a wild pitch, the runners will each get one base anyway and can advance further at their own risk, but the rule requires the batter to reach base on a pitch as well and should be a dead ball at the conclusion of play.

Is there another situation to which you are referring?

[noumpere]

 

 

I venture to say that this is one of the discrepancies in OBR but is interpreted for the intent pf the rule. Obviously on a balk that becomes a wild pitch, the runners will each get one base anyway and can advance further at their own risk, but the rule requires the batter to reach base on a pitch as well and should be a dead ball at the conclusion of play.

Is there another situation to which you are referring?

 

I don't really think its a discrepancy, but it is clarified in some of the other manuals.

 

If there's a balk, and a wild pitch (not ball 4), and all runners advance a base -- the runners keep the bases, but the pitch is nullified (the batter resumes with the same count).

[Jimurray]

For OBR, I'm in the understanding that the batter does not have to reach base to nullify a balk when an errant pickoff throw occurs. The batter provision is only under 8.05m.

Please advise U-E.

You can even have a pitch where the batter doesn't reach first and the balk is nullified (for the runners at least). I venture to say that this is one of the discrepancies in OBR but is interpreted for the intent pf the rule. Obviously on a balk that becomes a wild pitch, the runners will each get one base anyway and can advance further at their own risk, but the rule requires the batter to reach base on a pitch as well and should be a dead ball at the conclusion of play.

Is there another situation to which you are referring?

I'm not sure I see a discrepancy in the rule. What are you referring to?

[ALStripes17]

I venture to say that this is one of the discrepancies in OBR but is interpreted for the intent pf the rule. Obviously on a balk that becomes a wild pitch, the runners will each get one base anyway and can advance further at their own risk, but the rule requires the batter to reach base on a pitch as well and should be a dead ball at the conclusion of play.

Is there another situation to which you are referring?

I don't really think its a discrepancy, but it is clarified in some of the other manuals.

If there's a balk, and a wild pitch (not ball 4), and all runners advance a base -- the runners keep the bases, but the pitch is nullified (the batter resumes with the same count).

But if the batter does not reach base according to the rule and the approved rulings, play is dead. So on a balk and pitch, can the runners technically continue to advance past their award?

[maven]

But if the batter does not reach base according to the rule and the approved rulings, play is dead. So on a balk and pitch, can the runners technically continue to advance past their award?

SITUATION: R1 only, outs don't matter. F1 balks (no stop) and pitches wild. R1 advances to 3B on the play.

 

RULING: The penalty for the balk is enforced, since the batter did not reach 1B. The pitch is nullified, and R1 may keep his advance to 3B (not required to return to 2B, which would otherwise have been the awarded base).

 

The rationale for this ruling is that the penalty for a balk should be a minimum: we don't penalize the offense (by putting R1 back at 2B) for the defense's mistakes (balk and wild pitch).

[Jimurray]

I venture to say that this is one of the discrepancies in OBR but is interpreted for the intent pf the rule. Obviously on a balk that becomes a wild pitch, the runners will each get one base anyway and can advance further at their own risk, but the rule requires the batter to reach base on a pitch as well and should be a dead ball at the conclusion of play.

Is there another situation to which you are referring?

I don't really think its a discrepancy, but it is clarified in some of the other manuals.

If there's a balk, and a wild pitch (not ball 4), and all runners advance a base -- the runners keep the bases, but the pitch is nullified (the batter resumes with the same count). But if the batter does not reach base according to the rule and the approved rulings, play is dead. So on a balk and pitch, can the runners technically continue to advance past their award?

I see what you are saying. There is no qualifier to not make the ball dead other than batter and all base runners advancing:

PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

So you have to go to PBUC or MLBUM for clarification.

[noumpere]

 

 

 

 

 

I venture to say that this is one of the discrepancies in OBR but is interpreted for the intent pf the rule. Obviously on a balk that becomes a wild pitch, the runners will each get one base anyway and can advance further at their own risk, but the rule requires the batter to reach base on a pitch as well and should be a dead ball at the conclusion of play.

Is there another situation to which you are referring? I don't really think its a discrepancy, but it is clarified in some of the other manuals.

If there's a balk, and a wild pitch (not ball 4), and all runners advance a base -- the runners keep the bases, but the pitch is nullified (the batter resumes with the same count). But if the batter does not reach base according to the rule and the approved rulings, play is dead. So on a balk and pitch, can the runners technically continue to advance past their award?

I see what you are saying. There is no qualifier to not make the ball dead other than batter and all base runners advancing:

PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

So you have to go to PBUC or MLBUM for clarification.

 

Maybe the ball becomes dead at the end of playing action (especially when the PEN is read in conjunction with the first AR)?

[Jimurray]

I venture to say that this is one of the discrepancies in OBR but is interpreted for the intent pf the rule. Obviously on a balk that becomes a wild pitch, the runners will each get one base anyway and can advance further at their own risk, but the rule requires the batter to reach base on a pitch as well and should be a dead ball at the conclusion of play.

Is there another situation to which you are referring? I don't really think its a discrepancy, but it is clarified in some of the other manuals.

If there's a balk, and a wild pitch (not ball 4), and all runners advance a base -- the runners keep the bases, but the pitch is nullified (the batter resumes with the same count). But if the batter does not reach base according to the rule and the approved rulings, play is dead. So on a balk and pitch, can the runners technically continue to advance past their award?

I see what you are saying. There is no qualifier to not make the ball dead other than batter and all base runners advancing:

PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

So you have to go to PBUC or MLBUM for clarification.

Maybe the ball becomes dead at the end of playing action (especially when the PEN is read in conjunction with the first AR)?

Yep, I think you can infer that the ball is not dead in the AR. If you can't then you can go to PBUC or MLBUM.

[Larry in TN]

For OBR, I'm in the understanding that the batter does not have to reach base to nullify a balk when an errant pickoff throw occurs. The batter provision is only under 8.05m.

 

I see what you are saying. There is no qualifier to not make the ball dead other than batter and all base runners advancing:

PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

So you have to go to PBUC or MLBUM for clarification.

Here's the qualifier near the end of 8.05.  It's in the "APPROVED RULING".

 

8.05 - If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --

PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

APPROVED RULING: In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk.

[ALStripes17]

For OBR, I'm in the understanding that the batter does not have to reach base to nullify a balk when an errant pickoff throw occurs. The batter provision is only under 8.05m.

I see what you are saying. There is no qualifier to not make the ball dead other than batter and all base runners advancing:

PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

So you have to go to PBUC or MLBUM for clarification.

Here's the qualifier near the end of 8.05. It's in the "APPROVED RULING".

8.05 - If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --

PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

APPROVED RULING: In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk.

The MLBUM and PBUC interps are what I dont have.

In regards to that second AR, does a pitch qualify as "throw to home plate?" The definition of a pitch and a throw are 2 different things, so I would say that second AR does not include a pitch.

[noumpere]

This is from an older version of MLBUM:

 

(8) If the balk is followed by a wild pitch, the Approved Ruling of Official Baseball Rule 8.05

provides that the runner may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk.

In that situation, the umpire shall call the balk in the usual manner but shall not call "Time"

until all play has ceased (runners have stopped trying to advance and an fielder is in

possession of the ball in the infield).

Note that even if the runner advances to or beyond the base to which he is entitled because of

a wild pitch following a balk, the balk is still "acknowledged." That is, the pitch is nullified

and the batter will resume the at-bat with the count that existed when the balk occurred

unless:

(a) The wild pitch was ball four on which all runners advanced one base; or

(b) The wild pitch was strike three on which the batter and all other runners advanced one

base.