Double play dispute

[Thunderheads]

Ok, ... Pierzinski hits one down the line just fair .........  watch the whole thing unfold; tell me what you think .......  I'll save my comments for later

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=30491703&query=dispute

 

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=30491703

[Haid D' Salaami]

wow... that is about as tight as you can get...but overall a good call, he did touch 1st.

[Thunderheads]

wow... that is about as tight as you can get...but overall a good call, he did touch 1st.

yes, agreed ....the question from me is this:

Did Fairchild SEE him touch it?  It's tough to tell from the video ...you can't see him indicate the out....

[scrounge]

and an interesting case study on how replay won't work without ALL of the TV angles...the first makes it look like the glove tags the base, the second rules that out and makes it look like a no tag, only the third close-in angle definitively shows the tag by the toe.

[JaxRolo]

Correct Call was made even though I am not convinced he actually saw the foot hit the bag. Good Guess?

[noumpere]

You can see the bag move and you can see the dirt get jossled off it even in the first view.

 

Plus on the field you can probably hear F3 yell to F4 /F6 "tag him" or something to indicate the touch. (unless you think he's lying. lol )

[RichMSN]

I'm amazed that the conversation went on for 2 minutes.  That's an eternity for something like that.  

[UmpJeff]

I would have expected Fairchild to signal Fair/Foul then signal Out, if in fact he saw the touch.  I'm guessing, like Jax, that he didn't see the touch.

[Texas Manny]

Fair, "He's out!", throw, "On the tag, He's out!"  Good calls all the way around.

[Thunderheads]

Fair, "He's out!", throw, "On the tag, He's out!"  Good calls all the way around.

Manny,

You can not see Fairchild signal the out, nor do you see him during the 'long' arguement say "I did call him out" or anything like that.   That's why (in my opinion) the arguement went on for as long as it did .......

[Texas Manny]

 

Fair, "He's out!", throw, "On the tag, He's out!"  Good calls all the way around.

Manny,

You can not see Fairchild signal the out, nor do you see him during the 'long' arguement say "I did call him out" or anything like that.   That's why (in my opinion) the arguement went on for as long as it did .......

 

I'm not disputing that at all. I'm just saying that the double play calls of both outs are correct. I just watched the video but am unable to hear anything because my speakers on the lap top I'm using are out. Sound card went.

 

I will go back and look at it on my desktop with sound.

 

 

I just make the calls for the benefit of others, so that they can see how the mechanics work, as taught by the schools. Side benefit is all...

[Thunderheads]

 

 

Fair, "He's out!", throw, "On the tag, He's out!"  Good calls all the way around.

Manny,

You can not see Fairchild signal the out, nor do you see him during the 'long' arguement say "I did call him out" or anything like that.   That's why (in my opinion) the arguement went on for as long as it did .......

 

I'm not disputing that at all. I'm just saying that the double play calls of both outs are correct. I just watched the video but am unable to hear anything because my speakers on the lap top I'm using are out. Sound card went.

 

I will go back and look at it on my desktop with sound.

 

 

I just make the calls for the benefit of others, so that they can see how the mechanics work, as taught by the schools. Side benefit is all...

 

Wait, I'm sorry, I'm not saying you can hear anything .... I just would think you'd see (lip reading) "I did call him out" or something along those lines.... It's the only thing that makes any sense in regards to the length of the Rangers' arguement

[Texas Manny]

I'll definitely go back and review it several times. The first time I looked, I was primarily focused on the play, rather than the argument because of the computer I'm on. I'll go look later and remark.

 

No problem!

[mstaylor]

You see him show fair, then the camera goes away. But as soon as the runner doesn't leave he steps up and confirms that he is out. 

[JoHart10]

First question: Should Fairchild of even been signalling Fair or Foul due to the fact that contact with the ball happen before 1st? Doesn't that make it the HP's call(fair or foul)? 

 

2nd: I didn't see an out call from Fairchild.

 

3rd: If they did call a double play...at least they got it right.

[noumpere]

First question: Should Fairchild of even been signalling Fair or Foul due to the fact that contact with the ball happen before 1st? Doesn't that make it the HP's call(fair or foul)? 

 

Some crews use the cutout, some give "all" plays by f3 to U1, some use the bag.  Some might even echo -- and we don't see what PU did (if I recall correctly)

[Texas Manny]

Okay, I rewatched the video. 1st Base Umpire Chad Fairchild immediately pointed "Fair", then the camera shot over toward second. I cannot say that he didn't make an out call signal, however, when the camera swung back to first, then, after the BR inquired, Fairchild gave the "OUT" signal and told him he was out. A discussion ensued, however, they simply discussed that the 1st baseman got the bag. The announcers were all over the place on the play. I'm not saying that Fairchild didn't make an "OUT" after the "Fair" signal was given, however, I have to believe he may not of, because of the confusion from the players and Manager Washington that ensued, and it's not usual for a professional umpire to signal physically a player is "OUT" once he's done it.

 

Botton line, there may be some confusion on signalling at 1st base, but there was a properly executed out by the 1st baseman and they tagged the runner before stepping on second to complete the double play.

 

As for the fair/foul jurisdiction, in pro school, you are taught that the ball up to the bag is the PU's. From the ball crossing the bag, back is the base umpires. In this situation the crew may have modified that a little to suit them. I can't say that the plate umpire called it first, because Chad Fairchild's reaction was swift and quick, not indicative of an echo call.

 

I just chalk this up to signal relaxation typical in the MLB and this time it caused some confusion. That is the only plausible reason I can come up with. I can't see Chad Fairchild NOT doing his job.

[mstaylor]

In school they teach the bag, however, many pro crews and even college crews use the cutout. The default is still the bag.<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[Texas Manny]

In school they teach the bag, however, many pro crews and even college crews use the cutout. The default is still the bag.<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

LOL...I just said that and checked again what I said with the JEAPU Max book. Right on. You're funny.

[UMP45]

You can see the bag move and you can see the dirt get jossled off it even in the first view.

 

Plus on the field you can probably hear F3 yell to F4 /F6 "tag him" or something to indicate the touch. (unless you think he's lying. lol )

This is why we don't need to clean the bases.

[Texas Manny]

 

You can see the bag move and you can see the dirt get jossled off it even in the first view.

 

Plus on the field you can probably hear F3 yell to F4 /F6 "tag him" or something to indicate the touch. (unless you think he's lying. lol )

This is why we don't need to clean the bases.

 

I clean the bases after every play is completed there, such as a steal of second or a play at first. Just habit.

[mstaylor]

That will get you mailed in baseball. Just letting know.<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[Texas Manny]

Mailed? What does that mean?

[Jocko]

Mailed? What does that mean?

nailed. You'll get dinged in your evals. Dont clean the bases. That's softball.

[Texas Manny]

Okay. I've never heard that one before. Okay, I won't do it. Thanks!