Breaking the plane

[Guest Chris]

What is the exact rule on a LH pitchers right foot coming back regarding him being committed to pitch.  My pitcher in a game tonight was called for two balks because the umpire stated that he was bringing his right foot behind the left and then picking to first,  So exactly what it the rule?  Does he have to completely clear the leg?  Does it have to go behind the rubber?  Is it a balk if the foot just moves behind the front part of the leg, but does not go all the way behind it?

[pnewton]

It is't that his right foot was going behind his left leg as much as it is his right foot going behind the pitcher's plate (rubber).  Rule is cited straight from OBR.

 

8.05
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --
(a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery;
Rule 8.05(a) Comment: If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitchers rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick-off-play.

[BigUmp56]

I can honestly say that I've never seen a LHP make a move to first that had him swinging his free foot past the back of the rubber. I've seen quite a few RHP do it and get balked, but never a LHP.

 

Tim.

[noumpere]

In NCAA its also a balk if any part of the stride leg breaks the back plane.

 

And there is or at used to be a discrepancy on whether it was all of the foot or just anypart of the foot in OBR.  One of the opinions (like JR, not saying it was them) had it as just part of the foot but PBUC (I think) had it as all of the foot.

[johnnyg08]

You really need at least three umpires on your field in order for the first base umpire to see the infraction.

[pnewton]

I can honestly say that I've never seen a LHP make a move to first that had him swinging his free foot past the back of the rubber. I've seen quite a few RHP do it and get balked, but never a LHP.

 

Tim.

 

I have the exact opposite experience.

[Guest chris]

You really need at least three umpires on your field in order for the first base umpire to see the infraction.

 

In this case we did have three umpires and it was the first base umpire that was calling it.  I was just wondering what the cutoff was.  So he can cross his left leg, which of course is in front of the rubber, as long as he doesn't go beyond the back edge of the rubber?

[mstaylor]

The leg is irrelevant, it is the free foot crossing the back edge of the rubber. By the same token he can take him free knee by the rubber, keep his foot in front and go to first. 

[johnnyg08]

The rule is free foot.

[maven]

BU can see this in 2-umpire mechanics: pro instruction is to watch for the entire sole of the shoe on the free foot. If you can see that, it went behind the back edge.

 

The OP doesn't state which rule set he's using. OBR usual interp is any part of the free foot; FED is explicitly the entire foot behind the rubber (6-2-4f).

[johnnyg08]

BU can see this in 2-umpire mechanics: pro instruction is to watch for the entire sole of the shoe on the free foot. If you can see that, it went behind the back edge.

They have to teach it that way and it's a good teaching tip. Because they can't say that there's no way to see it w/ only two umpires. With a fair amount of certainly, I'd be willing to say that it doesn't get called in the minor leagues if they want to move up. Even w/ the teaching tip.

[maven]

With a fair amount of certainly, I'd be willing to say that it doesn't get called in the minor leagues if they want to move up.

With a fair amount of certainty, I'd be willing to say that it doesn't get called a lot because it doesn't happen much, but that evaluators expect the crew to call it when it does happen.

[alex7]

In NCAA its also a balk if any part of the stride leg breaks the back plane.

 

And there is or at used to be a discrepancy on whether it was all of the foot or just anypart of the foot in OBR.  One of the opinions (like JR, not saying it was them) had it as just part of the foot but PBUC (I think) had it as all of the foot.

 

Had a question on something I saw in this older thread. 

 

Does this NCAA "any part of the stride leg" LH balk get called often?  The knee crossing the back plane is allowed in OBR and FED and we see it so often, I'm curious if it's called at the NCAA level and I just haven't seen it yet, or if it's one of those that umpires tend to leave alone because no one says anything.

[BT_Blue]

NCAA rule 9-1-b(3) When the pitcher starts the delivery from the set position and the entire free foot or any part of the stride leg breaks the plane of the back edge of the pitcher’s rubber, the pitcher is committed to throw or feint a motion toward second base or pitch to home plate. PENALTY—For violations of 2 or 3, a “balk†shall be called.

So according to this, it is it is the ENTIRE free foot or ANY other part of the stride leg crosses the back edge. So the old Andy Pettite move would be a balk in NCAA.

[dumbdumb]

Ok-so let's get this straight for NFHS, NCAA, OBR so we can keep this compact and as simple as possible (KISS theory).

 

1. If the "toe of the foot" crosses the back plane, which organizations penalize (balk).

 

2. If the "whole foot" crosses the back plane, which organizations penalize (balk).

 

3. If the "knee or another part of the leg" crosses the back plane, which organizations penalize (balk).

 

FWIW-at least they all agree that the "back edge" of the rubber is the determinant and not the front edge.

[BT_Blue]

I dont believe any rule set says "toe of the foot" breaking the plane is a balk.

All three do say "whole foot" but only NCAA seems to add the "knee or any part of the free leg" to the mix.

[Jimurray]

I don't think OBR uses the word "whole " in the rule and, in fact, the MLBUM says any part of the free foot. They also specify that the knee can go past the back edge with no restriction

[BT_Blue]

I know the knee is legal in OBR. Hence the "Andy Petitte" balk move.

[mstaylor]

OBR says the foot crosses the back of the rubber, it doesn't specify any portion so it has always been interpreted to be whole foot.

[Jimurray]

OBR says the foot crosses the back of the rubber, it doesn't specify any portion so it has always been interpreted to be whole foot.

MLBUM, PBUC and BRD say any part of free foot for OBR. Not that I'm going to focus on a millimeter of shoe crossing the plane.

[mstaylor]

OK, MLBUM says any part, I'm good to go.

[siz]

Had a sitch like this last night...Does anyone consider swinging the foot past the rear leg natural pitching motion OBR 8.05(a)?

thus committing himself to pitch?

[maven]

Had a sitch like this last night...Does anyone consider swinging the foot past the rear leg natural pitching motion OBR 8.05(a)?

thus committing himself to pitch?

 

No, it does NOT commit him to pitch. Read the COMMENT after 8.05(a).

[siz]

Isn't the comment just one interpretation of the rule, not the only interpretation?

I understand that :

Rule 8.05(a) Comment: If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitchers rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick-off-play. 

clarifies one instance of a natural motion, but the rule states any natural motion.

There are others aren't there?

and i'm not being argumentative, just confused...

[maven]

Isn't the comment just one interpretation of the rule, not the only interpretation?

I understand that :

Rule 8.05(a) Comment: If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitchers rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick-off-play. 

clarifies one instance of a natural motion, but the rule states any natural motion.

There are others aren't there?

and i'm not being argumentative, just confused...

 

I guess I'm not understanding your question. Your previous post seemed to ask whether swing the free foot behind the rubber committed F1 to pitch, and the answer is no: it commits him to pitch OR step & throw/feint to 2B.

 

Now you're asking a different question, namely whether other motions might commit F1 to pitch. The answer to that is, of course.

 

A common one is, F1 will start his wind-up by raising his hands, and then step off to try to pickoff the runner. That's a start/stop balk: the hands moving committed him to pitch per 8.05(a).

[noumpere]

Isn't the comment just one interpretation of the rule, not the only interpretation?

I understand that :

Rule 8.05(a) Comment: If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitchers rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick-off-play. 

clarifies one instance of a natural motion, but the rule states any natural motion.

There are others aren't there?

and i'm not being argumentative, just confused...

I can't think of a motion made in conjunction with swinging the foot past the rubber that would commit F1 to pitch (as opposed to allowing him to throw to second).  It's possible, of course, but it would have to be really weird, and probably ineffective.