Do not pitch sign vs. time out

[conbo61]

Question that popped into my head yesterday.

 

Runners on, batter is "doing his thing" to get ready to stand in.  PU holds up the "Do not pitch" sign.

 

Here is the question - 

 

Is the ball "implicitly" dead in this situation?  (I think not).  If the runners chose, they could take off to steal and if the pitcher were in a legal position, he would have to step off properly to make a play.  Now if the pitcher balks, I can envision the DC coming out to claim time was out with the DNP sign.

 

Nothing happened like this, but it was one of those "What if..." scenarios that crossed my mind. (An admittedly short trip.)

 

Thanks.

 

 

[johnnyg08]

In my games, the do not pitch mechanic (a mechanic I don't use) means the same as "time"

 

When it is my plate, I don't use the mechanic for the reason(s) you state along w/ a few other reasons.

 

But if he balks or if anything else happens and I'm on the bases, we're resetting.  

[mstaylor]

The hand up is the same thing as time. It takes away steals, picks,balks and you have to put the ball back in play. I rarely if ever use the mechanic, it causes more problems than it solves. I use it more with young pitchers, JV and above, no way. 

[CricketChapman]

I never use this mechanic...

If F1 pitches prior to the batter being reasonably set in the batter's box, it is a quick pitch and a ball (or balk with runners on).

[noumpere]

Is the ball "implicitly" dead in this situation?  (I think not).  

You are correct that the ball is not "implicitly" dead.  There's nothing implicit about it.

[24sdad]

The only time I ever use the DNP sign is at the beginning of each 1/2 inning.  After the first batter takes his signs and begins entering the box, I will hold my hand up as I make a quick visual sweep for loose equipment dugout to dugout.  Plus, for me, I just feel like it makes for a crisper transition when I go from DNP to putting the ball in play.  I never use it while the ball is in play.

 

For the OP, 8-10 times a game a batter will enter the box with his hand up as he digs in.  Do nothing.  Just watch him and F1.  Most F1's will wait.  If F1 does not and begins any movement to pitch while the batter is not ready, call time as you step out from behind the catcher.  Tell F1 to allow the batter to get set before he pitches and start over.  And dont allow the batter to abuse this and take all day either.  Keep the game moving.

[maven]

Agree: the ball is live or dead. Hand up is dead.

I, too, minimize the use of this mechanic. I will use it if the batter is slow getting into the box and F1 looks as if he might go, and it's a prelude to stepping out and killing it verbally and with both hands so everyone knows it has been dead.

And then the next thing is telling F1 he must wait till the batter is ready.

[24sdad]

Along those lines, this year it seems to be most varsity kids, following a base hit and after the ball is returned to the infield, want "time" after they receive the ball for the sole purpose of throwing the ball back to the pitcher.  When this happens and I am BU, a simple "what do you want time for?' will usually be met with a goofy look from the infielder as he throws the ball back to the pitcher.  They didn't need to talk to the pitcher, they just wanted a security blanket incase they threw the ball away.  Don't allow this either.  Keep that bad boy live unless there is a good reason not to.

[Jocko]

DNP = Time

[mstaylor]

Along those lines, this year it seems to be most varsity kids, following a base hit and after the ball is returned to the infield, want "time" after they receive the ball for the sole purpose of throwing the ball back to the pitcher.  When this happens and I am BU, a simple "what do you want time for?' will usually be met with a goofy look from the infielder as he throws the ball back to the pitcher.  They didn't need to talk to the pitcher, they just wanted a security blanket incase they threw the ball away.  Don't allow this either.  Keep that bad boy live unless there is a good reason not to.

I usually just say,"Problem?"

[BalkHawk]

I ditched the half-way-time-out mechanic. I think it invites nonsense.

Instead, I tend to leave the ball live and stand behind the open batter's box to make it clear we aren't ready for a pitch.

[24sdad]

Along those lines, this year it seems to be most varsity kids, following a base hit and after the ball is returned to the infield, want "time" after they receive the ball for the sole purpose of throwing the ball back to the pitcher.  When this happens and I am BU, a simple "what do you want time for?' will usually be met with a goofy look from the infielder as he throws the ball back to the pitcher.  They didn't need to talk to the pitcher, they just wanted a security blanket incase they threw the ball away.  Don't allow this either.  Keep that bad boy live unless there is a good reason not to.

I usually just say,"Problem?"

Going to use that next time Michael, thank you.

[bam]

Along those lines, this year it seems to be most varsity kids, following a base hit and after the ball is returned to the infield, want "time" after they receive the ball for the sole purpose of throwing the ball back to the pitcher.  When this happens and I am BU, a simple "what do you want time for?' will usually be met with a goofy look from the infielder as he throws the ball back to the pitcher.  They didn't need to talk to the pitcher, they just wanted a security blanket incase they threw the ball away.  Don't allow this either.  Keep that bad boy live unless there is a good reason not to.

A little whistle with a point at the pitcher. 

[Mike Prince]

Along those lines, this year it seems to be most varsity kids, following a base hit and after the ball is returned to the infield, want "time" after they receive the ball for the sole purpose of throwing the ball back to the pitcher.  When this happens and I am BU, a simple "what do you want time for?' will usually be met with a goofy look from the infielder as he throws the ball back to the pitcher.  They didn't need to talk to the pitcher, they just wanted a security blanket incase they threw the ball away.  Don't allow this either.  Keep that bad boy live unless there is a good reason not to.

A little whistle with a point at the pitcher. 

 

You carry a whistle on the field?        

[bam]

It is funny you say that....

 

Had a travel tournament last weekend.  The format called for a team to play two in row, staggered with the next team playing two in a row.  So between games, the team coming in for their game with a team that was already on the field, was WAY out in center.  So I brought my referee's whistle in case I had to get their attention when game 1 ended.  I didn't need to use it, but I had it. 

[JaxRolo]

DNP = Time

 

Jocko uses this mechanic all the the times so he should know what it means.

[carolinablue]

It is funny you say that....

 

Had a travel tournament last weekend.  The format called for a team to play two in row, staggered with the next team playing two in a row.  So between games, the team coming in for their game with a team that was already on the field, was WAY out in center.  So I brought my referee's whistle in case I had to get their attention when game 1 ended.  I didn't need to use it, but I had it. 

 

Next time you have a collision on the field you can call a foul.

[catsbackr]

DNP = Time

Completely disagree.

A hand up or the "do not pitch" sign is completely different than both hands up "time". Granted, you need to work through your catcher to delay him giving a sign and avoid a quick pitch, but the do not pitch signal (one hand) is an acceptable signal to use.

[johnnyg08]

DNP = Time

Completely disagree.

A hand up or the "do not pitch" sign is completely different than both hands up "time". Granted, you need to work through your catcher to delay him giving a sign and avoid a quick pitch, but the do not pitch signal (one hand) is an acceptable signal to use.

 

So they can balk, pick off, and all other stuff when you put that signal up?  

 

Sounds like a mess to me.

[mstaylor]

DNP = Time

Completely disagree.

A hand up or the "do not pitch" sign is completely different than both hands up "time". Granted, you need to work through your catcher to delay him giving a sign and avoid a quick pitch, but the do not pitch signal (one hand) is an acceptable signal to use.

And you would be wrong. Jocko is exactly correct. 

[noumpere]

DNP = Time

Completely disagree.

A hand up or the "do not pitch" sign is completely different than both hands up "time". Granted, you need to work through your catcher to delay him giving a sign and avoid a quick pitch, but the do not pitch signal (one hand) is an acceptable signal to use.

Completely wrong unless you have some reference that indicates it for your specific area.

[mstaylor]

 

Along those lines, this year it seems to be most varsity kids, following a base hit and after the ball is returned to the infield, want "time" after they receive the ball for the sole purpose of throwing the ball back to the pitcher.  When this happens and I am BU, a simple "what do you want time for?' will usually be met with a goofy look from the infielder as he throws the ball back to the pitcher.  They didn't need to talk to the pitcher, they just wanted a security blanket incase they threw the ball away.  Don't allow this either.  Keep that bad boy live unless there is a good reason not to.

I usually just say,"Problem?"

Going to use that next time Michael, thank you.

A little off topic but some teams insist on coming out of the dugout to congratulate their teammate scoring. I equally insist that they don't, they have no business in live ball. I said something to a team about staying in the dugout. The batter asked why. I told him they were not allowed in live ball. the batter said they were just picking him up. I said " Oh I'm sorry, I didn't see him fall down." The batter started to answer when it dawned on him what I meant. 

[NFUA_44]

Never been a fan of using it for all the reasons listed.  However, I remember a conversation on here within the last 6 months where MidAm Ump spoke about it being used more at the college level, and if I'm not mistaken it was being taught in various places.  I'm not the search guru but I know the thread isn't that old, it was this past off season, or maybe MidAm can remember.

[Jocko]

If you're holding your hand up, you have granted time. If you allow anything while your hand is in DNP, you're asking for a sh*t show. The ball is dead. Plain and simpe. It's in one of my pbuc manuals, but really not worth the effort to search for. Be wrong if you wish. Just not on my field.

[Mike Prince]

The only time I consciously use it is at the beginning of an inning before I put the ball in play, otherwise I use it sparingly if at all, usually when the ball is already dead and I am about to put it back into play.

 

If I remember correctly, the FED Umpire's Manual does say that the hand up does equate to time, no action can take place.  Almost hesitate to use that as a credible source though...