NCAA test, undeclared infield fly.....any ideas?

[TommyJeansDE]

R1 and R2, no outs. The umpires fail to call
an obvious infield fly. The ball drops and the base runners are
attempting to advance.

• 
  a.
  • If the defense records a double play,
    call "time!" and nullify the double play. However, allow the batter to
    keep first base since his batted ball was not caught before it hit the
    ground.

• 
  b.
  • After calling "time!" award the batter
    first base since the ball dropped and advance the other runners one base
    since they are forced to advance.

• 
  c.
  • The play will stand as it happens. The batter remains at first base. Any outs made on any base runner will stand.

• 
  d.
  • Call time and declare the batter out.
    Nullify any outs made on the base runners who advanced because they
    thought they were forced to advance because the ball dropped and no
    "infield fly" call was made. Return the base runners to the bases they
    occupied at the time of the pitch.

 

 

 

[Thunderheads]

http://umpire-empire.com/index.php/topic/51890-six-more-ncaa-test/

[TommyJeansDE]

Thanks Jeff.

[Jocko]

I'm going to think out loud.

A. Why would you nullify a DP?

B. Makes no sense at all, IMO

D. The wording about "because they thought they were forced" makes this seem not quite right becaause the rules say they may advance at their own peril. Which to me means outs would stand, same as in A.

So, by process of elimination, I conclude the answer is "C"

But what do I know?

[johnnyg08]

D

[alex7]

I'm going to think out loud.

A. Why would you nullify a DP?

B. Makes no sense at all, IMO

D. The wording about "because they thought they were forced" makes this seem not quite right becaause the rules say they may advance at their own peril. Which to me means outs would stand, same as in A.

So, by process of elimination, I conclude the answer is "C"

But what do I know?

Perhaps "advance at their own peril" only comes into play if we actually call the infield fly and they are made aware of the situation.

Here, we didn't, so they're off the hook a little bit despite them not being aware of the situation.

[Jocko]

I'm going to think out loud.A. Why would you nullify a DP?B. Makes no sense at all, IMOD. The wording about "because they thought they were forced" makes this seem not quite right becaause the rules say they may advance at their own peril. Which to me means outs would stand, same as in A.So, by process of elimination, I conclude the answer is "C"But what do I know?

Perhaps "advance at their own peril" only comes into play if we actually call the infield fly and they are made aware of the situation.Here, we didn't, so they're off the hook a little bit despite them not being aware of the situation.I see what you mean.

[jjskitours]

The answer is A, same as in Pro rule.

[grayhawk]

I agree with Johnny - it's D.  2011 BRD:

 

NCAA: Point not covered.  OFF INTERP 186-265: THURSTON: If the umpires err in not calling an infield fly, when the play is over, they must "get the play right":(1) The batter is out; (2) runners keep any bases they made on their own; and (3) if the defense puts out any baserunner, that out is canceled.  Thurston agreed with Fitzpatrick: "Under no circumstances should the defense get a double play because the umpire failed to declare the infield fly." (phone call to cc, 2/29/00)

[Umpire in Chief]

I picked D.

[Bob Bainter]

The answer is A, same as in Pro rule.

Umm...that's not a Pro rule...

 

If you can find in the pro rulebook where that is what we call...I'll close my umpire training program.

 

[basejester]

No outs. R1 R2 R3. Undeclared iff. Defense is confused initially and tries to turn a triple play -- (Say, 5-4-3 or 1-2 (pulled foot off the plate) . . .), but gets only 2. Winning run scores. We apply D, unscoring the run? SH*#storm. Don't let this happen, I guess.

[Haid D' Salaami]

The answer is A, same as in Pro rule.

 The answer is D.. this is not the same as in Pro rules. In NCAA we as umpires can fix this and make it right, it was the umpires fault as they didn't declare the IFF.

[jjskitours]

I will be curious to see the final answer - A or D as it surely isn't B or C. Under Pro rules there is no infield fly rule imposed unless it is called. If and only if a double play occurs will the umpires take appropriate action to negate 2 outs on the play. It would seem to make sense that the lead runner's out stands and the other runner's out be negated, sending him back to his base at TOP. The batter-runner gets 1st. Now what do we end up with, but basically the same thing there would have been had the Infield Fly been called. Runners at 1st and 2nd. I am not as familiar with NCAA, but it was / is my understanding that they played this the same as Pro. I guess I / we will soon know when the answers are published.

[Haid D' Salaami]

get to review the test.. the answer is ..D

[jjskitours]

What was their rule reference for this answer. Thanks.

[zm1283]

What was their rule reference for this answer. Thanks.

________________________________________________________________

 

2-47; 7-11q; 3-6b

[johnnyg08]

What was their rule reference for this answer. Thanks.

 

 

2-47; 7-11q; 3-6b

[jjskitours]

Wow! what a lot of nothing. Not once is the word "undeclared" found in any of these references. Hard to understand why there isn't a single A.R. to be found on this situation.

[zm1283]

Wow! what a lot of nothing. Not once is the word "undeclared" found in any of these references. Hard to understand why there isn't a single A.R. to be found on this situation.

_____________________________________________________________________________

 

I looked for this one for quite a while and never found anything about undeclared IFF either.  

[noumpere]

I do hope they come out with an analysis of the test and how many people got each one wrong and a better explanation of all those that more than say 20% of the people got wrong.

[Jimurray]

The answer is A, same as in Pro rule.

 The answer is D.. this is not the same as in Pro rules. In NCAA we as umpires can fix this and make it right, it was the umpires fault as they didn't declare the IFF.

According to the BRD Thurston agreed with Fitzpatrick in 2000 so back then it was the same as the Pro interp.

[UmpTTS43]

The answer is A, same as in Pro rule.

 The answer is D.. this is not the same as in Pro rules. In NCAA we as umpires can fix this and make it right, it was the umpires fault as they didn't declare the IFF. According to the BRD Thurston agreed with Fitzpatrick in 2000 so back then it was the same as the Pro interp.

Interps have changed. Although the BRD is an excellent resource, it is not considered an authoritative end all.

[Jimurray]

The answer is A, same as in Pro rule.

 The answer is D.. this is not the same as in Pro rules. In NCAA we as umpires can fix this and make it right, it was the umpires fault as they didn't declare the IFF. According to the BRD Thurston agreed with Fitzpatrick in 2000 so back then it was the same as the Pro interp.

Interps have changed. Although the BRD is an excellent resource, it is not considered an authoritative end all.

So does pro now require the runners to know it's an infield fly even if undeclared as FED rules also. Is NCAA now the odd man out? The BRD hasn't noted that change as of 2011.

[BT_Blue]

All codes requires the players on and off the field to know the situation. I believe that FED is the odd one out where we can correct our mistake on an IFF. Of course I could be wrong. I haven't worked regular season college ball in almost four years.